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On April 09 2016 03:37 kongoline wrote:
casual games die fast, look at d3 playerbase compared to longevity of d2 or how is heroes of storm doing now (most people got bored after few weeks of playing). blizzard destroyed their brand because they decided to cater casuals, it might have given them better sales but their games are shadow of what they used to be.
On other hand maybe riot knows game is declining and this is their final attempt to get money from people before game dies completely.
yeah no
casual games have tons of longevity. look at warcraft 3
social features keep people playing games
games die when people stop playing, therefore they want to keep as many people playing as possible.
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Those still appeal to people I'd call above casual though. I mean most of the playerbase, by a huge margin, is below gold I think. Do streamers and pros affect them at all?
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On April 09 2016 04:10 Osmoses wrote:
Those still appeal to people I'd call above casual though. I mean most of the playerbase, by a huge margin, is below gold I think. Do streamers and pros affect them at all?
75% of the ranked playerbase iirc
until this season only 30% of the total actually played ranked
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Then theres the question of age vs income. Most hardcores are young, with no money. Why wouldn't you cater to older, eith lots of expendable income?
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On April 09 2016 02:53 Alaric wrote:
The average LoL player doesn't read the patch notes nor watches the champion spotlights, let alone go to websites such as reddit or TL.
The two aren't comparable, there's at least 1-2 million League players actively reading that subreddit. Which is why Riot have very often caved in to the majority opinion there on various topics. TL doesn't represent the average LoL player, reddit most definitely does. When there's a popular grievance, or joke, or whatever on there I see it reflected in in-game chat.
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On April 09 2016 03:52 Osmoses wrote:
You don't have to give what amounts to less than 1% of your playerbase anything. Not sure what you mean by tastemakers either. Hardcore players are irrelevant to the revenue of any game.
Hardcore players are essential to the revenue of any game. They determine what will and will not become viable enough to become popular. They are the ones who chose WOW over EQ2, they chose COD over Medal of Honor, revived CS:GO, piled into LOL before DOTA2 got online, fled SCII, etc.
Yes you need casual players to make a lot of money, but to even get to that point you need hardcore players (what I call tastemakers because of its use in Fashion, Food, etc) to get the game into the public's eye, and you also need them to sustain the game longterm. Yes if 80% D1-Challenger and avid redditors left LOL in the short term that would make a bunch of people happy as they suddenly start to become "the best" or "better" in rank but longterm that has not been shown to be healthy for games. From D3 to SCII to Smash Bros.
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It is just the natural way of the world. Something gets popular>a lot of new people who just follow the trend come>the company tries to milk them>others get bored at one point and leave>next.
League just got lucky and got so big that it almost doesn't matter what dumb shit riot do it will never instantly die.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 09 2016 04:16 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 03:52 Osmoses wrote:
You don't have to give what amounts to less than 1% of your playerbase anything. Not sure what you mean by tastemakers either. Hardcore players are irrelevant to the revenue of any game. Hardcore players are essential to the revenue of any game. They determine what will and will not become viable enough to become popular. They are the ones who chose WOW over EQ2, they chose COD over Medal of Honor, revived CS:GO, piled into LOL before DOTA2 got online, fled SCII, etc. Yes you need casual players to make a lot of money, but to even get to that point you need hardcore players (what I call tastemakers because of its use in Fashion, Food, etc) to get the game into the public's eye, and you also need them to sustain the game longterm. Yes if 80% D1-Challenger and avid redditors left LOL in the short term that would make a bunch of people happy as they suddenly start to become "the best" or "better" in rank but longterm that has not been shown to be healthy for games. From D3 to SCII to Smash Bros.
It's not surprising that on a forum for "hardcore players" that the "hardcore players" think that they ought to be the center of attention from the company.
In addition, I think your examples are actually examples of games that died because of a lack of casual players. What casual players still play D3 and SCII? Pretty sure the "hardcore" SCII people are still there ...
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On April 09 2016 04:47 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 04:16 cLutZ wrote:On April 09 2016 03:52 Osmoses wrote:
You don't have to give what amounts to less than 1% of your playerbase anything. Not sure what you mean by tastemakers either. Hardcore players are irrelevant to the revenue of any game. Hardcore players are essential to the revenue of any game. They determine what will and will not become viable enough to become popular. They are the ones who chose WOW over EQ2, they chose COD over Medal of Honor, revived CS:GO, piled into LOL before DOTA2 got online, fled SCII, etc. Yes you need casual players to make a lot of money, but to even get to that point you need hardcore players (what I call tastemakers because of its use in Fashion, Food, etc) to get the game into the public's eye, and you also need them to sustain the game longterm. Yes if 80% D1-Challenger and avid redditors left LOL in the short term that would make a bunch of people happy as they suddenly start to become "the best" or "better" in rank but longterm that has not been shown to be healthy for games. From D3 to SCII to Smash Bros. It's not surprising that on a forum for "hardcore players" that the "hardcore players" think that they ought to be the center of attention from the company. In addition, I think your examples are actually examples of games that died because of a lack of casual players. What casual players still play D3 and SCII? Pretty sure the "hardcore" SCII people are still there ...
Most of the hard core SC group stopped playing SCII a long time ago.
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On April 09 2016 04:16 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 03:52 Osmoses wrote:
You don't have to give what amounts to less than 1% of your playerbase anything. Not sure what you mean by tastemakers either. Hardcore players are irrelevant to the revenue of any game. Hardcore players are essential to the revenue of any game. They determine what will and will not become viable enough to become popular. They are the ones who chose WOW over EQ2, they chose COD over Medal of Honor, revived CS:GO, piled into LOL before DOTA2 got online, fled SCII, etc. Yes you need casual players to make a lot of money, but to even get to that point you need hardcore players (what I call tastemakers because of its use in Fashion, Food, etc) to get the game into the public's eye, and you also need them to sustain the game longterm. Yes if 80% D1-Challenger and avid redditors left LOL in the short term that would make a bunch of people happy as they suddenly start to become "the best" or "better" in rank but longterm that has not been shown to be healthy for games. From D3 to SCII to Smash Bros.
epsorts games are the exception not the rules. Even if you limit to pvp games that people like to play competitively its still not true. You even name Smash in your list. A game were the developers actively don't care about the hardcore fans and the games sell like hot cakes. Also i would argue what kills sc2 is if you are not interested in going hardcore people don't play the game. People join a game because they enjoy it then discover as a secondary a further, deeper hardcore version which they invest in. Heck TF2 has been out for nearly 10 years without even having a strong competitive scene, same with sports games like Fifa. I don't know much about BW but to my knowledge, in Korea people didn't care much for the competitive scene. It was something people would play then discover that their exist pro play and watch that.
Hardcore player are useful for long-term playability but this often because the game is popular so will naturally have hardcore players.
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sc2 failed because it is neither competitive nor casual friendly.
Its an alright game but not as much strategic depth as broodwar.
the old battle.net was much more functional in making friends/clans and starting communities. New battle.net is pretty awful in that aspect.
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On April 09 2016 04:47 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 04:16 cLutZ wrote:On April 09 2016 03:52 Osmoses wrote:
You don't have to give what amounts to less than 1% of your playerbase anything. Not sure what you mean by tastemakers either. Hardcore players are irrelevant to the revenue of any game. Hardcore players are essential to the revenue of any game. They determine what will and will not become viable enough to become popular. They are the ones who chose WOW over EQ2, they chose COD over Medal of Honor, revived CS:GO, piled into LOL before DOTA2 got online, fled SCII, etc. Yes you need casual players to make a lot of money, but to even get to that point you need hardcore players (what I call tastemakers because of its use in Fashion, Food, etc) to get the game into the public's eye, and you also need them to sustain the game longterm. Yes if 80% D1-Challenger and avid redditors left LOL in the short term that would make a bunch of people happy as they suddenly start to become "the best" or "better" in rank but longterm that has not been shown to be healthy for games. From D3 to SCII to Smash Bros. It's not surprising that on a forum for "hardcore players" that the "hardcore players" think that they ought to be the center of attention from the company. In addition, I think your examples are actually examples of games that died because of a lack of casual players. What casual players still play D3 and SCII? Pretty sure the "hardcore" SCII people are still there ...
The point of my semi-rant is that casuals don't stick around after hardcore players leave. Probably something about hardcore players actually knowing what makes a game good for replay-ability (since they replay it a lot in a concentrated period of time), thus the casuals reach saturation on replays more slowly.
Also I didnt say they should design exclusively for hardcore players, I said you need to do enough to keep them happy to maintain your game long term.
While this doesn't matter for Nintendo and Smash bros because they don't rely on long-term play, I'm fairly confident the average person played more games of Melle than Brawl simply because its more fun to not trip and not get Meta-knight tornadoed when its happening for the 15th game.
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On April 09 2016 06:41 cLutZ wrote:
The point of my semi-rant is that casuals don't stick around after hardcore players leave. Probably something about hardcore players actually knowing what makes a game good for replay-ability (since they replay it a lot in a concentrated period of time), thus the casuals reach saturation on replays more slowly.
Also I didnt say they should design exclusively for hardcore players, I said you need to do enough to keep them happy to maintain your game long term.
While this doesn't matter for Nintendo and Smash bros because they don't rely on long-term play, I'm fairly confident the average person played more games of Melee than Brawl simply because its more fun to not trip and not get Meta-knight tornadoed when its happening for the 15th game.
Well one has been out for for longer and has sold more units this seem a null point. Number of people who play to a competitive level or care about the scene is VERY small. Hey look at fps.
Best competitive fps is cs:go by any objective measurement. Most popular fps? COD (modern warfare has sold nearly double the units) a series that has been running for a long time and has a larger player base. It has basically no competitive scene. The game is played on a xbox/ps which in terms of aiming is a HUGE drawback. The guns in it have no thought of competitive balancing but has a larger player-base than cs:go.
To be clear I define
hardcore as someone who plays competitively/in a team in tournaments
and casual for anyone else. Defining hardcore as someone who just plays a lot has no point here as you can play a lot without any care about competitive balance, see COD and smash and TF2.
edit: o yeah and sports games like fifa has a competitive scene. Do you think EA cares? That game is full of random stuff like players falling over etc and has not hurt sales one bit.
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imo hardcore gameres are people who play a lot games usually to climb ladder but it doesnt mean they have to be pro or even high rank, just invest a lot time in game and the ones who play max few games per week i see as casual gamers (i imagine majority people are like this)
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On April 09 2016 11:55 JimmiC wrote:
WTF is ascenion mode? ANy one wanna give me the quick and dirty?
Kill people for points. Collect the shards for points. Kill Xerath to become Ascended. Kill people while Ascended for more points. Team that gets 200 points wins.
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I think it's pretty bad, dominion is better 
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I personally really like Ascension. I find it much more enjoyable than most of the other game modes Riot does.
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EPT
