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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 04 2016 05:08 cLutZ wrote: Speaking of Dragons. Remember the Morde rework. Lulz. Actually, none of the Juggernaut reworks have worked out. Who'da thunk it? Darius still pretty stomps solo queue and Garen a bit too. But yeah. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
Skarner is still never played, but the few people who do play him don't seem to mind. The pillars are a bit random, but his kit is more interesting than before. Morde is just fucked | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2016 05:44 JimmiC wrote: Wouldn't it be accurate to say they all worked out but morde? No, because the purpose of the reworks was to make them easier for riot to tweak so they could remain competitive without being soloQ stompers. Any idiot could have buffed them into competitive with the absurd numbers they got for a while, but now, as "balanced" Skarner/Morde are basically dead, and Garen/Darius are fine for SoloQ but do not provide any of the necessary utility or flexibility for competitive play. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On March 04 2016 07:28 cLutZ wrote: No, because the purpose of the reworks was to make them easier for riot to tweak so they could remain competitive without being soloQ stompers. Any idiot could have buffed them into competitive with the absurd numbers they got for a while, but now, as "balanced" Skarner/Morde are basically dead, and Garen/Darius are fine for SoloQ but do not provide any of the necessary utility or flexibility for competitive play. Not every champion has to be a staple in pro play... Who are you to define the criteria for a success? | ||
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
Edit: nm, the passives dont stack. I did get a baller play where I parried vlads flash-ult-ignite under my tower for first blood | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2016 07:30 killerdog wrote: Not every champion has to be a staple in pro play... Who are you to define the criteria for a success? Set the criteria. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts The point was for it to not just be a buff, but to "that every champion in League has specific reasons to be picked, or brings a unique and awesome thing to each game." Moreover, just by my POV, if you are not reworking a champion to fix a fundamental issue in the kit, you might as well add 2% buffs until the champ hits 50% WR instead of using any real effort. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On March 04 2016 05:08 cLutZ wrote: Speaking of Dragons. Remember the Morde rework. Lulz. Actually, none of the Juggernaut reworks have worked out. Who'da thunk it? Darius got nerfed an additional time after he was reasonable because people were still complaining, that kinda ruined him imo. On March 04 2016 07:51 cLutZ wrote: The point was for it to not just be a buff, but to "that every champion in League has specific reasons to be picked, or brings a unique and awesome thing to each game." this actually can't happen with the number of champions in the game unless Riot gets over there distaste for unbalanced power curves and auras. Without these things it will always come down to who has the best numbers of similar heroes, a la the Xerath/Lux/Ziggs problem. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Also, skarner and Darius were totally picked even they had good stats pre rework. You could have reverted old nerfs and brought them back just as easily. The point of a rework is for them to be different, and basically more healthy for the game. My problem with the juggs isn't that at any time one of them will be the best and thus you just pick that one (the ziggs/lux/xerath thing) its that they seem to basically have that problem with the rest of the cast as well (more like those 3 also being incompatible with ori/Leblanc/kass). And that was true before, so what changed other than them upsetting the balance of the game right before playoffs? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
we can have an awesome run into the middle of the enemy team and demand attention fantasy without being a high gold carry position, that fantasy fits as a support, even a mage (swain please, get it together). but we don't ever get those supplementary designs. we just get main character after main character design, and when you have so many characters demanding the focus the rest just fall in line based on power level. the only characters that seem to be allowed to be supplementary are supports, and they are often presented with wings clipped so they can't ever be the focus. Look at Nami, who is a badass water mage, she doesn't get to be anything but a support though, riot ensured that. even though we know a supplementary role can exist outside of bottom lane low gold. (see lulu) | ||
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
like "we want players to have meaningful counterplay blablabla play patterns shouldn't be so esoteric that no one knows what's going on" and then they release illaoi with her godawful test of spirit tentacle minigame | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
I legit played so much heimerdinger pre-rework cuz it was a fun as fuck kit, regardless of winrate. Same applied to pre-rework eve, but post stun-nerf. All the champions people like playing, has a lot more to do with champion kit than it does with balance. Like, why do one trick ponies seem to only exist on champs with cool and cohesive champ designs? Because they're fun to play regardless of numbers. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Also laneswaps hardcounter this entire class. Can't agree with gp/fiora reworks being good tbh. They are 2 of the most broken champs we have had recently. Even if they are more interesting than old champs they were/are just wayyyy too powerful. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 04 2016 12:33 nafta wrote: Problem with juggernauts is they will never be top tier unless they are just straight up overtuned. The amount of waveclear and peel in this game is just too much. Also laneswaps hardcounter this entire class. Can't agree with gp/fiora reworks being good tbh. They are 2 of the most broken champs we have had recently. Even if they are more interesting than old champs they were/are just wayyyy too powerful. Yes on juggernauts, but IMO the word is still out on GP/Fiora. You don't know how good a kit is until its numbers get the shaft. GP probably won't be good long term because the delayed barrel mechanic is very finicky, but fiora might be fine once they shove her power out of true damage and into something else. | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
On March 04 2016 07:51 cLutZ wrote: Set the criteria. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts The point was for it to not just be a buff, but to "that every champion in League has specific reasons to be picked, or brings a unique and awesome thing to each game." Moreover, just by my POV, if you are not reworking a champion to fix a fundamental issue in the kit, you might as well add 2% buffs until the champ hits 50% WR instead of using any real effort. Nowhere does that mention pro or competitive play. By those criteria you linked you could argue every rework was a success, because new Mord does bring something unique to the game. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Now he languishes because of stats, lategame woes, and being kited. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
That seems like a rather weird interpretation of a well made champion. | ||
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