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On March 09 2016 06:00 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2016 05:47 kongoline wrote:On March 09 2016 05:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2016 05:36 Zess wrote:
Someone explain to me how Renekton, who falls off pretty fast, is a "generalist" while Gragas, who is relevant the whole game through burst, cc, and tank steroids, is not.
Fucking riot language man Because Renekton doesn't actually fall off in late game as much as people think. list 3 toplaners who scale worse Lissandra, Bird lady, Pantheon, Teemo, Yorik? I could include more if we include "scaling worse" as being "worse at 40 minutes assuming the game is played correctly by both teams" then probably Illaoi, Garen, RekSai, Rengar, Rumble, and a few other borderline cases. The tricky thing about it is that there are a lot of champs that will be better than Renekton post 11, 2 items if its even money, even dragons, even levels, but that is not a realistic scenario (if the Renekton/Renekton team is not worse) so his falling off isn't really that bad until he hits 4/5 items, because he is typically ahead.
teemo doesn't fall off as much as people think. Late game he will outduel any adc and output huge amounts of damage. Also shrooms can be really valuable in creating picking or doing huge amounts of aoe damage.
I would say these fall off more
kennen falls off,
garen i think falls out (i know nothing about him but seems bad at dueling, diving, etc)
sion is just a wall and does nothing
Rengar if the enemy is good
shen falls off as his ult is too slow late game (same with tp) with turning up and outside of that we is weak.
Tryndamere
mord
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Not sure about Kennen
Garen kind of falls off, but he's never been great in fights, your goal is to splitpush into oblivion
Sion is pretty strong, not a lategame carry but a solid meatshield with decent CC and damage
Rengar is okay
Shen is ok
Trynd definitely doesn't fall off, invincibility is super good and he 2 or 3 shots squishies and towers
Morde falls off
AD Renekton is pretty stronk, though that does fall off lategame
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United States15536 Posts
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teemo doesn't fall off as much as people think. Late game he will outduel any adc and output huge amounts of damage.
Doesn't QSS and Hexdrinker completely shut him down? Also his ridiculously short range means someone like Cait with Rapid Fire Cannon can blow him up before he even gets to her.
sion is just a wall and does nothing
Sion has one of the hardest engage combos in the game. If you get hit by a long range ult and his Q, it's worse than a Morg combo. And yeah, he's stupidly tanky, never stops scaling thanks to passive and shield. Also good against dive comps, his counter engage is not fun.
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lmao i dont know why i try to argue with people who think sion has bad late game
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sion's main problem is getting clipped by cc and having his q channel interrupted before it hits the threshold for knockup, but it's a pretty acceptable weakness.
i'm a little surprised we haven't seen him in competitive yet actually. he might not be nautilus, but he seems to fill a similar niche. sion is also really good with le portal.
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So, Aurelian Sol revealeds. Lets play the prediction game.
What does he do:
1. good utility (AOE stun, AOE displacement/slow ult)
2. Roaming and initiating. (QE)
3. Mid range constant aura damage
What does he not have:
1. Safe Range
2. Any defensive steroid
3. Any reliable escape
Riot states he should be built tanky ap. From observing the game, I say the chances of this are nearly zero. The tankiest AP anyone ever builds is ROA in real life. In real life league of legends, if a champion has good enough utility/bases, they are built full tank (Ekko). If they have burst or safety net they are built full damage. The only champions that have a hope of hybrid AP optimization are extremely mobile and can pick their skirmishes. Aurelian Sol has none of these characteristics, so he will be built almost entirely tank/support, or full AP, or be completely broken numberwise and be able to 100-0 with tanky AP build and be nerfed, or be worthless and never played.
He is unable to safely fight due to his shit range and zero defensive abilities, so I predict he will be built full tank/support if he is viable at all.
His support is seriously hindered by his passive permapushing. But he could work just on the strength of his stun and roam if his passive proves controllable.
I predict his full tank will not be successful as he has no sustain or escape or range to safely succeed in top or mid lane, so his tanky build hinges on his jungling. This could be possible I guess but I doubt it due to lack of sustain and defenses, lack of any mention of it from Riot, and the fact that it would probably seriously hinge on him kiting camps with passive to avoid damage, which Riot dislikes.
Final prediction:
Aurelian Sol will be built as a tanky support or not played at all. I also predict he will not be successful, as too much of his kit is focused on damage as opposed to utility. Perhaps he will be momentarily strong before his damage or base values are nerfed. I doubt he will see pro play because his utility is not insane, his mobility is poor, and his most unique feature (his long range stun initiation), is too slow and telegraphed, and result in his instant death due to his lack of defense mechanism.
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^^^
Agreed. It's a really, really cool character design, but the execution seems to be for a game that doesn't include a laning phase. Or characters with dashes. Or characters that move.
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Garen doesn't really fall off that bad in most cases, but it's more of a teamcomp thing usually.
He can 100-0 carries and he can splitpush, plus he can also be a pretty good tank with his W.
If you're playing in a game where those things don't matter that much he'll fall off real bad, but otherwise it should be ok.
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Sion is perfectly fine late. He got some hard counters but then who doesn't?
But viable aside, he's just so damn satisfying to play. Landing a real good Q or ult, followed by a w and a titanic active? I AM WAAAR and then they're gone. Fuck yeah. You just got destroyed by the undead juggernaught. Tell your friends.
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Sion has #2 winrate right now for KR Soloq which is pretty amusing.
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On March 09 2016 08:04 Requizen wrote:
^^^
Agreed. It's a really, really cool character design, but the execution seems to be for a game that doesn't include a laning phase. Or characters with dashes. Or characters that move.
Kit doesn't make sense at all to me really
Passive wants him to stand next to enemies
Q and E want him to initiate
Yet he has no way to stay alive in melee range, and no way to initate faster than walking speed in a perfectly straight line while being interrupted by any damage.
Its a Galio play pattern except he can't even use flash to get in (because it will detonate his charged Q), plus Sol's damage is more sustained and less burst, but without Galio's defensive steroid. It's really really dysfunctional.
Seriously, its Galio 2.0
Galio: Defensive steroid, defensive passive. E at them, run straight towards them at +50%ms, PBAOE 2s stun and damage. Thow a Q.
Aurelian Sol: No defensive steroid, no defensive passive. E at them, fly straight at them with +50% ms, PBAOE 2s stun and less damage. Stand around and somehow magically survive to do dmg with passive.
Galio doesn't work and Sol is shittier in every way.
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On March 09 2016 08:50 Osmoses wrote:
Sion is perfectly fine late. He got some hard counters but then who doesn't?
But viable aside, he's just so damn satisfying to play. Landing a real good Q or ult, followed by a w and a titanic active? I AM WAAAR and then they're gone. Fuck yeah. You just got destroyed by the undead juggernaught. Tell your friends.
It's mostly that W means lategame most AP threats don't have the burst/sustained damage to scare a 4k+hp tank with 1 MR item, and thornmail shuts down AD carries. He also bullies melee's super hard early on, and with how the game revolves around early/midgame atm, being able to just base at 6, ult down mid/bot and blow summoners before tping back top can be incredibly strong.
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT
