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On February 07 2016 17:02 739 wrote:
Anyone playing new Shen as TOP or SUP actually? Any opinions? I think Imma try him out tonight.
I play him top. Hes much more of a bully now and a bit more all in-ish. I usually start trading when I hit two and I get taunt. Its advised that when you taunt you maneuver yourself so when you hit Q, the sword passes through them and your Q gets a damage boost. The damage is pretty damn good. Has a bit of a problem against ranged top laners though.
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I know the league community hates Kat but man could she use some buffs. I can't even beat Zed in lane anymore this season
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Yea as far as I'm concerned I hope I won't ever have to see Katarina on the rift again lol
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Illaoi's very fun to me, but I like being a brick wall and just fighting people and refusing to die (works better with Mundo or Udyr though 'cause she's so goddamn slow  ).
She's not strong, though: sure she has high numbers, but to apply them is a bit like picking Katarina against Alistar and expect your damage to match fully channeled ults every teamfight. In magical dreamland it'll happen, in reality against decent opponents she shouldn't get more than an initial burst without massive help from her teammates.
See her like a Darius with stronger harass, weaker all-ins (can't fight people at full health, gotta soften them first) and who's even more susceptible to kiting (and easy to kite), but more AoE if people don't split well.
You're a dick to people in lane, you turn ganks around really well, build tanky at first to survive the enemy burst and they won't want to dive you, then try to either end the game asap or fight inside the jungle because you're not accomplishing anything in an open field.
Bonus points for getting a vessel out of Eing your lane opponent a couple times and tilt them off the face of the earth if they're not ranged.
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Re:swiftness boots.
Reason is that they're cheap. 300 gold cheaper than other options. Mobos aren't good for in combat anymore so non-engage/pick focused champions avoid them. The 10% CDR on Ionians is often wasted since so many other items have CDR now.
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On February 07 2016 21:03 Alaric wrote:Illaoi's very fun to me, but I like being a brick wall and just fighting people and refusing to die (works better with Mundo or Udyr though 'cause she's so goddamn slow ). She's not strong, though: sure she has high numbers, but to apply them is a bit like picking Katarina against Alistar and expect your damage to match fully channeled ults every teamfight. In magical dreamland it'll happen, in reality against decent opponents she shouldn't get more than an initial burst without massive help from her teammates. See her like a Darius with stronger harass, weaker all-ins (can't fight people at full health, gotta soften them first) and who's even more susceptible to kiting (and easy to kite), but more AoE if people don't split well. You're a dick to people in lane, you turn ganks around really well, build tanky at first to survive the enemy burst and they won't want to dive you, then try to either end the game asap or fight inside the jungle because you're not accomplishing anything in an open field. Bonus points for getting a vessel out of Eing your lane opponent a couple times and tilt them off the face of the earth if they're not ranged.
I tried out Yorick and I found him quite fun, expected much-much worse from Yorick who? So, it's not like I have a problem with, so to say, boring champions, but this description of Illaoi certainly did not peaked my interest. At least Yorick has an interesting ult added to his meaty, grinder playstyle. Bah, I wish there was an option like in HoTS to try out any champ in a pre-made solo mode, to at least test the abilities.
On February 07 2016 21:15 Goumindong wrote:
Re:swiftness boots.
Reason is that they're cheap. 300 gold cheaper than other options. Mobos aren't good for in combat anymore so non-engage/pick focused champions avoid them. The 10% CDR on Ionians is often wasted since so many other items have CDR now.
What d you mean by anymore? Mobies always lost the buff during combat, or did I miss a patch note?
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Illaoi's not so much grinding as she needs to put her lane opponent in a state where she'll be able to pop the spirit if she hits E. If she doesn't, then she can just be ignored while taking minimal damage.
You soften them and protect your tentacles, then you position kinda like Blitz would to make them move around the lane/wave until you can hit an E that'll bring them in range of 2 tentacles (ideally; one can be enough), so they'll have to fight you, or become a vessel (which then gives you a lot of pressure, especially if you're close to their tower).
Then it's about positioning and timing your W right so they don't dodge the tentacles, rinse and repeat. She doesn't dive well like Yorick could do though.
And yeah in teamfights she's a lot more influential than him but apart from the huge pay-off of her ult she doesn't bring something like his ult.
If you don't like being a bitch to people, being big and scary and making them run just by walking toward them, and slugging it out while staying around 15% HP for the majority of the fight and just baiting them a la "we can finish off this Mundo!", then she's just a big meaty thing that does damage once in awhile when she doesn't get her abilities dodged, so you'd find her bland, yeah.
Re: mobos
They used to grant the same MS as other t2 boots, and the out of combat bonus on top of that. But since... well, awhile, when you're in combat they only grant the same MS as boots of speed, so you're slow as heck (esp. compared to people with swifties).
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On February 07 2016 17:39 MattBarry wrote:
I know the league community hates Kat but man could she use some buffs. I can't even beat Zed in lane anymore this season
I mean, zed's an extremely strong laner
and not like kat was a strong laner in the first place
I get your point that kat is weak but 'beating zed in lane' is the least of a kat's concern
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On February 08 2016 00:33 JimmiC wrote:
I find illalio fun in lane because you can set up the tenticals, you can some times 1v2 vs there guy and the jungler or the mid if they roam. However, later in the game I feel almost useless as fights are all over the map and you are so easily kited, its worth than darius! But it is a different play style if you are looking for a change.
This is exactly what I am afraid of. With Rene, you can slide into the middle of the pack, with Poppy you are constantly looking for picks or to disrupt the enemy, and I can just see myself walking around aimlessly, waiting for the perfect opportunity to do at least a 3 men ult. But if I am unlucky, the fight is scattered, and people just won't care about me. I dunno. Need a couple of games for 6300, but I don't have my eyes on anything else right now, so I'll probably try her.
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On February 08 2016 00:54 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 00:33 JimmiC wrote:
I find illalio fun in lane because you can set up the tenticals, you can some times 1v2 vs there guy and the jungler or the mid if they roam. However, later in the game I feel almost useless as fights are all over the map and you are so easily kited, its worth than darius! But it is a different play style if you are looking for a change. This is exactly what I am afraid of. With Rene, you can slide into the middle of the pack, with Poppy you are constantly looking for picks or to disrupt the enemy, and I can just see myself walking around aimlessly, waiting for the perfect opportunity to do at least a 3 men ult. But if I am unlucky, the fight is scattered, and people just won't care about me. I dunno. Need a couple of games for 6300, but I don't have my eyes on anything else right now, so I'll probably try her.
I think the way Illaoi will end up is tentacle independent if you want to be doing stuff. R>W>E>Q gives you the most damage increases as well as the most utility and mobility increases. There is no real reason to grab Q max unless your AD is over 200 very early. The Tentacle damage increase is neat, but .1 total AD isn't going to be worth the cooldown decrease and 20 damage/rank of your W. Base damage on tents is level based either way.
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Q gives you more clear, more harass, more sustain through the lower cd on tentacles, and the 0.1 AD/level applies to your passive, vessels' and ult tentacles as well.
Sure, if you want to lose your whole total AD of damage in an AoE in any given fight where you ult (easily goes up to 1.5-2 AD), go ahead. W has its cooldown cut when you ult anyway, and you don't want to be mobile so much that you want to prevent people from running, hence why you're rushing Gauntlet anyway.
Illaoi doesn't do much outside of her ult, especially if she doesn't get 30+ seconds to setup at least 2 tentacles (or get a vessel before the fight starts) so you should be making sure it's impactful and maxing that Q to dominate your lane then maximise your damage in early teamfights, so you can end the game before you fall off.
The main draw of W is to trigger tentacles (doesn't take long before 10% of your AD per tentacle hit > 20 damage from W) and to reset your aa timer since she's got the worst base in the game. You don't use it to harass.
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Ugh Kindred's ult is such a stupid ability. Even if I save someone with it I get bitched at anyway because it also saved an enemy. It literally only feels useful to deny tower dives or when running away, I have not found a use for it in teamfights yet.
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On February 08 2016 01:24 Alaric wrote:
Q gives you more clear, more harass, more sustain through the lower cd on tentacles, and the 0.1 AD/level applies to your passive, vessels' and ult tentacles as well.
Sure, if you want to lose your whole total AD of damage in an AoE in any given fight where you ult (easily goes up to 1.5-2 AD), go ahead. W has its cooldown cut when you ult anyway, and you don't want to be mobile so much that you want to prevent people from running, hence why you're rushing Gauntlet anyway.
Illaoi doesn't do much outside of her ult, especially if she doesn't get 30+ seconds to setup at least 2 tentacles (or get a vessel before the fight starts) so you should be making sure it's impactful and maxing that Q to dominate your lane then maximise your damage in early teamfights, so you can end the game before you fall off.
The main draw of W is to trigger tentacles (doesn't take long before 10% of your AD per tentacle hit > 20 damage from W) and to reset your aa timer since she's got the worst base in the game. You don't use it to harass.
Your wave clear is essentially the same with Q max or with W max. the most important factor is still your level. you need 2 tentacles to clear if you have under 200 AD. whether you get those tentacles from 2 Q's or a Q and a W, is irrelevant. The difference in sustain is negligible a half second difference in cooldown.
Yeah the .1 AD applies to your tentacles everyone knows this.
Each tentacle does 10xLevel +120% AD. if you hit with a Q and then a W you deal 20xLevel+ 15+(20 per extra rank of w) + 350% AD which means at 9 you are dealing 180+95+350% AD
With Q max you deal: 180+15+430% AD. You come out slightly ahead on damage with 1 AD item. (about 10-30 more damage with Q max). BUT you have no tentacles for 6 seconds, where with W max you have another hit 4 seconds later, and your mana costs are much less.
Q max only gives you an advantage in the best case scenarios for illaoi, where you have people in a den of tentacles and you are bashing everyone at the same time. but the increase in collateral damage doesn't particularly change the outcome of those situations. Illaoi wins those either way It's like putting all your points into E on fiddle, It's best in the best case scenario where everyone just stands still and gets hit by everything, but those ranks of Terrify help much more.
. Maxing your main mobility and your main single target damage is superior in lane and when you need to focus someone individually especially in open areas or when your ult is down. Also her level 6 all in is way stronger with W max than with Q max.
There really just isn't a reason to go Q max for laning, unless you are in a matchup where you just want to sit back and hti the wave from a distance because you can't contest 1 on 1.
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On February 08 2016 01:37 Requizen wrote:
Ugh Kindred's ult is such a stupid ability. Even if I save someone with it I get bitched at anyway because it also saved an enemy. It literally only feels useful to deny tower dives or when running away, I have not found a use for it in teamfights yet.
The ability is very strong you are just bad at using it if you think it isn't.
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On February 08 2016 01:50 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 01:37 Requizen wrote:
Ugh Kindred's ult is such a stupid ability. Even if I save someone with it I get bitched at anyway because it also saved an enemy. It literally only feels useful to deny tower dives or when running away, I have not found a use for it in teamfights yet. The ability is very strong you are just bad at using it if you think it isn't.
It is also an ability that also scaled with the skill of your teammates. if you are in bronze and everyone is unloading on someone in a kindred ult well after it's cast then it's going to be more negative than positive pretty often. you can't keep teammates from being bad. Though kindreds ult is good enough that if her stats are viable she will be viable for sure.
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On February 08 2016 01:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 01:50 nafta wrote:On February 08 2016 01:37 Requizen wrote:
Ugh Kindred's ult is such a stupid ability. Even if I save someone with it I get bitched at anyway because it also saved an enemy. It literally only feels useful to deny tower dives or when running away, I have not found a use for it in teamfights yet. The ability is very strong you are just bad at using it if you think it isn't. It is also an ability that also scaled with the skill of your teammates. if you are in bronze and everyone is unloading on someone in a kindred ult well after it's cast then it's going to be more negative than positive pretty often. you can't keep teammates from being bad. Though kindreds ult is good enough that if her stats are viable she will be viable for sure.
Well it goes both ways. In low elo people can't split up at all vs aoe team comps and you have the 1 button that lets you stand a chance. If used properly ofc.
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On February 08 2016 01:59 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2016 01:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On February 08 2016 01:50 nafta wrote:On February 08 2016 01:37 Requizen wrote:
Ugh Kindred's ult is such a stupid ability. Even if I save someone with it I get bitched at anyway because it also saved an enemy. It literally only feels useful to deny tower dives or when running away, I have not found a use for it in teamfights yet. The ability is very strong you are just bad at using it if you think it isn't. It is also an ability that also scaled with the skill of your teammates. if you are in bronze and everyone is unloading on someone in a kindred ult well after it's cast then it's going to be more negative than positive pretty often. you can't keep teammates from being bad. Though kindreds ult is good enough that if her stats are viable she will be viable for sure. Well it goes both ways. In low elo people can't split up at all vs aoe team comps and you have the 1 button that lets you stand a chance. If used properly ofc.
yeah of course. but if your team is bad enough to blow all their cooldowns during the kindred ult on someone, then it doesn't matter if you used it perfectly, as long as the opponents team didn't blow their CDs and yours did. its kind of just bad overall. it's less about how you use it, and more about which team fucked up the most.
But that really only matters at the lowest levels of play.
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Your first argument is "clearing a wave with Q is the same as activating a tentacle with W." It's not, because you can make a tentacle hit the whole wave with Q, even before it's clumped up, but you can't do it with W since the tentacles will come from the walls.
Also if you don't max Q you won't oneshot the ranged minions (you also need AD for it, going BC first lets you do it, I don't know if replacing ArPen marks with AD ones does the trick, you don't need much), so it does matter either way.
You're also assuming that when trading/harassing you will always get a tentacle hit with W. It only works if your opponent walks in range of a tentacle, and before you have Gauntlet they can focus on sidestepping the tentacle then hit you, since you've got shit base AS and no abilities to keep fighting so they aren't losing out.
If they are in range of a tentacle, and especially if you hit E, then the fact that Q's AoE is more relevant, as its additional damage (3+ swings) will be multiplied by 35%+ if you position in a way to make both the spirit and your enemy hit.
You don't just walk up to people and aa-W them without a tentacle nearby as Illaoi. You reduce their health, you establish tentacles and then you use E's threat to zone them, or just catch them and force them to take a bad trade or become a vessel because the spirit's starting HP is low enough for you to kill it.
W doesn't do more damage in these situations, and it doesn't do more damage in teamfights, or ganks, etc.
Even 1v1 at level 6, you shouldn't ult before getting E off, and fight away from tentacles, so it's 3 tentacles.
You get 1 swing from E, then 3 after the ult, 3 after you W, 1 from Q. That's 8x 0.2 AD, to compare to your additional 40 damage from W, while the cooldown is fixed by the ult so the higher ranks in that don't matter.
Unless your opponent is dodging all tentacles and they don't even hit the spirit, a fight at level 6 with Q max outdamages W max so much it's not even funny.
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I mean i guess. in the situation where On February 08 2016 01:24 Alaric wrote:
you're rushing Gauntlet anyway. and you are On February 08 2016 02:06 Alaric wrote:
going BC first and you get both at a normal 1 item timing, you are certainly better off with Q max, since you won the game anyways.
ranged minions have 290 hp +11ish hp every minute and a half after spawning. at 12 minutes you are looking at about 390 hp At 12 minutes you are around level 10ish at most right? your tentacles dealing 100+140% AD means that your ad would need to be ~ 210 to one shot the ranged minions. which means you have 100ish AD from runes/masteries/BC first?
glad you brought up hitting a spirit. which lasts for 10 seconds. Without an additonal two ranks (or 1 extra rank and 20%+ cdr) in W, you are only going to be hitting a spirit ONCE with tentacles from your W. so ask yourself if 30xLevel+30+(40 per extra rank) +580%AD is worth more to you during a spirits lifespan, than 20xlevel +15+ 240-430% AD. You even get 3 or 4 hits off with maxed out W. amplifying the difference even more.
Q max helps you in scenarios where: you can't fight the opponent 1 on 1 OR situations where you are overwhelmingly favored to begin with(hitting someone with 3+ tentacles). in most games and match ups though, W max is better.
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EPT
