EPT[Patch 6.2] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 12
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 05 2016 08:09 kongoline wrote: people discovered that adcs can be played in every lane just right now ? No, just Riot forgot the purpose of Malphite and Amumu, so now its time to rediscover the glory of pressing R | ||
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
How are people feeling about pro games? I'm getting a massive 'meh' for most of them. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 05 2016 15:27 JazzVortical wrote: At this point, Varus is a mid laner. How are people feeling about pro games? I'm getting a massive 'meh' for most of them. I am watching a bit of LCK. It feels really slow and farm heavy. Kite and clear/stall seems so strong that every game is a 50 minute slog. Each team maneuvering to get their hypercarries more fed than the others and then hope someone makes a mistake/gets 5th dragon/can force an impossible decision. Pick/counter pick within that seems fairly deep. As well as team synergy* and map strategy. But it doesn't feel fun or exciting. *it feels to me like there are fewer universally strong picks but more picks that go well in concert with others. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 05 2016 19:23 Goumindong wrote: I am watching a bit of LCK. It feels really slow and farm heavy. Kite and clear/stall seems so strong that every game is a 50 minute slog. Each team maneuvering to get their hypercarries more fed than the others and then hope someone makes a mistake/gets 5th dragon/can force an impossible decision. Pick/counter pick within that seems fairly deep. As well as team synergy* and map strategy. But it doesn't feel fun or exciting. *it feels to me like there are fewer universally strong picks but more picks that go well in concert with others. The first half of the draft is all flex picks, lulu top/mid graves top/jungle corki bot/mid ez bot/mid Gangplank mid/top etc. and i think the draft order is starting to choke out strategy this meta you can't deviate from flex picks unless it's overall a very safe pick because protecting that pick via draft order (right before a mid pick ban or whatever) is nearly impossible. So with the flex picks you kinda just put the rest of the pieces wherever they fit based on what is allowed and then that leads to this sort of slow game because the flex picks are such because of their relative safety, and in league wave clear is safety. At least in korea. The game is so heavily punishing for deaths that safety is the priority, weirdly kills are also fairly low reward, the reward is almost entirely on the penalty that the dead player and their team gets. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On February 05 2016 19:23 Goumindong wrote: I am watching a bit of LCK. It feels really slow and farm heavy. Kite and clear/stall seems so strong that every game is a 50 minute slog. Each team maneuvering to get their hypercarries more fed than the others and then hope someone makes a mistake/gets 5th dragon/can force an impossible decision. Pick/counter pick within that seems fairly deep. As well as team synergy* and map strategy. But it doesn't feel fun or exciting. *it feels to me like there are fewer universally strong picks but more picks that go well in concert with others. LCK games are probably also the slowest out of all major regions (can't speak to EU though). NA/LPL are both much faster. LCK seems to play a much more conservative style, especially in the early game. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On February 05 2016 20:27 DystopiaX wrote: LCK games are probably also the slowest out of all major regions (can't speak to EU though). NA/LPL are both much faster. LCK seems to play a much more conservative style, especially in the early game. EU is extremely slow. Don't know if it's a case of the matchups being lopsided or not though. NA is also pretty slow. Riot has just made the game extremely punishing to the point where people would rather PvE than PvP. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
Remember when you were kids and pretend fighting and you said you had a laser gun, and then that one kid said he had an anti laser shield so you threw a grenade at him and then he said he could fly and it kept going on. That's less fun than playing tag. Eventually, there needs to be something that you can't wiggle out of. In tag it's because you got caught, in dota it's because they have a clockwerk/blink dagger/other long range initiation. In league. you just focus on avoiding. There has to be a thing who's counterplay is "don't let them get to that" or "don't be there when they do it". there should be a Epicenter Blink Burrow Strike. Another comparison is lightsaber duels. In the prequels you see all the jedi/sith constantly countering eachother in this huge flourishes and nothing ends up happening in the duels until the resolution, in the OT every swing changes the duel a bit. When obi fights vader he starts yielding his ground immediately as vader presses him into a corner, where he has no where else to go, and he submits, luke and vaders duel tears apart cloud city as they get pushed closer and closer to to the climax, luke being worn down more and more until his hand is severed and he's left clinging to the top of the weather vane screaming about daddy. Conflict, give and take, are interesting. stand offs even if they are stand off from being fancy, are not interesting. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On February 05 2016 21:32 PrinceXizor wrote: This is the End result of constant emphasis on "counterplay" as a primary mechanic. If everything in the game has something you can do to negate it then as you play it better and better, less and less happens. Remember when you were kids and pretend fighting and you said you had a laser gun, and then that one kid said he had an anti laser shield so you threw a grenade at him and then he said he could fly and it kept going on. That's less fun than playing tag. Eventually, there needs to be something that you can't wiggle out of. In tag it's because you got caught, in dota it's because they have a clockwerk/blink dagger/other long range initiation. In league. you just focus on avoiding. There has to be a thing who's counterplay is "don't let them get to that" or "don't be there when they do it". there should be a Epicenter Blink Burrow Strike. I don't know about that. If you want to use dota examples then you have tons of counter play to a blink epi type thing. Force staffs, Glimmer Cape, BKB, blinks etc. You just can't compare dota to League. Dota has non-homogenous power curves, non-linear itemization,a shit ton of utility items/spells and Tp scrolls with a large map. The game is designed to have people killing each other. The way gold works encourages this with losing unreliable gold on death. League just punishes small mistakes far harder than Dota does so this means teams don't want to engage in any play that could cause them to make a mistake, PvE is just the better way to play the game. Riot needs to make the game less punishing to try encourage teams taking risks. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 05 2016 21:38 Numy wrote: I don't know about that. If you want to use dota examples then you have tons of counter play to a blink epi type thing. Force staffs, Glimmer Cape, BKB, blinks etc. You just can't compare dota to League. Dota has non-homogenous power curves, non-linear itemization,a shit ton of utility items/spells and Tp scrolls with a large map. The game is designed to have people killing each other. The way gold works encourages this with losing unreliable gold on death. League just punishes small mistakes far harder than Dota does so this means teams don't want to engage in any play that could cause them to make a mistake, PvE is just the better way to play the game. Riot needs to make the game less punishing to try encourage teams taking risks. You can keep the punishment, if the rewards for killing are much higher . in Season 3 you could snowball off kills, so it was worth the risk to get kills your snowballing was enabled because when you got to a certain point you could force a kill without having to worry about anything but an extremely good play stopping you. When you can prevent anything the opponent can do with a simple move or small adjustment then it takes more effort to make something happen than avoid it. The aggressor should win. even if slowly over time, you should be losing the moment you take a defensive stance and you should be able to turn the tides through aggression. In starcraft this is because resources drain to nothing. you have to keep expanding or you will lose to the player that does. In chess it's because you are required to resolve being placed in check, forcing your hand and making you predictable if you play too defensive. In Go i know that the top masters set up large attacks many turns in advance, but honestly i don't know enough to comment, but from what i've read there is an aggressors advantage throughout that game as well. When the defender can just counter play his way to a neutral state then aggression isn't worth it. if the defender can counter play his way to a -.5% disadvantage without a counter attack then you are told you should be choosing the fights, not responding to them. When a wave crashes into a rock, it gets stopped, but the rock will be worn down over time. League of teleport is what you get when you minimize risk, season 3 is what you get when you maximize reward. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
I'm loving my Iron Solari, but I had it for sooooooooooooooooooo long that it feels like a baisc skin now. I also got Valkyrie as a mystery gift, but that shield is uglier than me. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 05 2016 20:20 PrinceXizor wrote: The first half of the draft is all flex picks, lulu top/mid graves top/jungle corki bot/mid ez bot/mid Gangplank mid/top etc. and i think the draft order is starting to choke out strategy this meta you can't deviate from flex picks unless it's overall a very safe pick because protecting that pick via draft order (right before a mid pick ban or whatever) is nearly impossible. So with the flex picks you kinda just put the rest of the pieces wherever they fit based on what is allowed and then that leads to this sort of slow game because the flex picks are such because of their relative safety, and in league wave clear is safety. At least in korea. The game is so heavily punishing for deaths that safety is the priority, weirdly kills are also fairly low reward, the reward is almost entirely on the penalty that the dead player and their team gets. I feel like safety is way too strong right now. The only interesting games are ones where both teams play poorly constantly, if both teams play well it's 1-3 kills at 45min and one fight decides the game. I don't understand why Riot went in this direction. The game's never been as dull to watch, and it's at times been very dull before. There needs to be a stronger incentive to gank for the sake of kills. Now getting a kill is almost irrelevant if you don't get a map objective with it, leading into extremely safe and passive play by both teams because fishing for kills isn't worth the risk. If both teams are close to even, the game resolves to: clear waves until dragon / baron, fight or threaten fight, repeat. Nothing else. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 06 2016 00:56 nafta wrote: Personally I have been of the opinion that waveclear is too good in this game for a while now. It is just so fucking hard to push. No wonder alistar is so fucking popular when he gives sustain and lets you towerdive significantly easier. I just wish ohmwrecker and banner were strong enough stat distribution-wise to pick up. but instead they are these weird half items that nobody really wants because you can't win a fight with them. | ||
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