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Gameplay discussion should go in the Gameplay Discussion thread. Gameplay discussion includes, but is not exclusive to: - Runes and masteries
- Item builds
- Jungle paths
- Playstyle and skill order for new/updated champions
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On January 15 2016 23:36 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:18 AlterKot wrote:On January 15 2016 23:12 Prog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things? It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason. What are you refering to? Aren't CS/Dota still using it? Dota has two completely seperate mmr's. One for when you solo play and one for when you play in a group of 2-5 people. CSGO bases it's rating off your performance, not just the end result, so the better performing players gain elo and worse performing ones don't. Not at all comparable to the clusterfuck riot has just implemented Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me. TIL that wanting a valid ranking system in a game apparently makes me an egomaniac... How's life in your ivory tower of self enlightenment?
It's important to note that while Dota MMRs are separate the pool of players is still the same.
I find people talking about CSGO/Dota and comparing it to LoL a bit wrong. The reason is not only because both of those games have built in features such as Voice chat but also because the culture surrounding the games are different. In League Solo Queue has always been "the place". CSGO/Dota/1.6/etc. always viewed pub games as nothing more than that. If you wanted the "real" experience you either get onto a pickup game that's designed to mirror competitive play or you go get a team together and play real matches. That was and still is the primary culture around the game. League on the other hand as a massive culture and emphasis on pub games. We see pro teams creating requirement for players based on pub games. No other game cares as much as pub as League does. You just can't compare them.
I also don't really get this "Queue as 5 solos into 5 premades". That is a fault of the systems implementation and not the concept. That game should never happen on paper. If I go against what I just said and compare it to Dota, I always found it far harder to queue as 5 than as a solo or 2 man because the quality of game increased dramatically. Now instead of it just being a pub it was pseudo comp/pickup game where you have to be far more serious and methodical to actually win. 5 man queues that stomped people generally only worked for pro level people.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On January 15 2016 23:47 Ketara wrote:
There's a lot of talk about being queued up as a 5 man premade vs 5 solos in this thread.
And I'm pretty sure they said when they were making this thing that they'd made it impossible, or unlikely to the point of being functionally impossible, for that to happen.
Pretty sure they said that 99% of the time you'll be matched up against teams with the same queue stacks as you.
Is there something where they said that they were undoing that?
I'm pretty sure I've read something about this on League forums that it was not intended and they're gonna fix it in next PATCH or TWO (by Riot guy).
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On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me.
I never knew my ego was
- a scenario where you can end up as a solo player with 4 others with voice comm, possibly playing the whole game without any interaction from your teammates
- an mmr system, which ranks your solo performance based on how you played with possibly up to four other teammates
- a master/challenger level player, who gets queued up against 5 premade LCS players, and is suddenly being punished for being among the best players
In top of that, Riot did not include built-in voice comm to a game mode which they said they created because this game meant to be played together, and you have a total fuck-up ready to serve.
But I'm glad you are this ignorant, I think it only proves our point in the midst of this chaos, when people like you "srengthens" the camp of defenders.
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Volband why do you always have to get so nasty when you discuss anything. Just chill a bit. Throwing insults and calling people names doesn't help anything.
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On January 15 2016 23:47 Ketara wrote:
There's a lot of talk about being queued up as a 5 man premade vs 5 solos in this thread.
And I'm pretty sure they said when they were making this thing that they'd made it impossible, or unlikely to the point of being functionally impossible, for that to happen.
Pretty sure they said that 99% of the time you'll be matched up against teams with the same queue stacks as you.
Is there something where they said that they were undoing that?
This was mostly an issue in higher elo but they turned it off to try to fix it. Dunno what that fix will do though. Will it change lp/mmr gain or will it make it much rarer?
Well league of legends has a lot more structured basic level so it makes sense for soloq to be taken more seriously than cs/dota imo. The whole roles/lanes enforce this. In dota drafting and roles aren't this specific.
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On January 15 2016 23:50 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me. I never knew my ego was - a scenario where you can end up as a solo player with 4 others with voice comm, possibly playing the whole game without any interaction from your teammates - an mmr system, which ranks your solo performance based on how you played with possibly up to four other teammates - a master/challenger level player, who gets queued up against 5 premade LCS players, and is suddenly being punished for being among the best players In top of that, Riot did not include built-in voice comm to a game mode which they said they created because this game meant to be played together, and you have a total fuck-up ready to serve. But I'm glad you are this ignorant, I think it only proves our point in the midst of this chaos, when people like you "srengthens" the camp of defenders.
- I don't soloQ because I'm desperate for interaction from the rest of my team.
- rank is an abstract concept, eventually you are getting matched with other people that, premade or not, you have about 50% chance of beating. (this is the ego I was talking about, wah I'm no longer platinum!)
- I don't see how facing the best opponents you could hope for would be punishment for someone who only cares about getting better.
But hey, keep raging, eventually you might even get to try it.
edit: and now people are mentioning it, I also remember reading that this thing you're raging about isn't actually even possible. Anybody got source?
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On January 15 2016 23:58 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:50 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me. I never knew my ego was - a scenario where you can end up as a solo player with 4 others with voice comm, possibly playing the whole game without any interaction from your teammates - an mmr system, which ranks your solo performance based on how you played with possibly up to four other teammates - a master/challenger level player, who gets queued up against 5 premade LCS players, and is suddenly being punished for being among the best players In top of that, Riot did not include built-in voice comm to a game mode which they said they created because this game meant to be played together, and you have a total fuck-up ready to serve. But I'm glad you are this ignorant, I think it only proves our point in the midst of this chaos, when people like you "srengthens" the camp of defenders. - I don't soloQ because I'm desperate for interaction from the rest of my team. - rank is an abstract concept, eventually you are getting matched with other people that, premade or not, you have about 50% chance of beating. (this is the ego I was talking about, wah I'm no longer platinum!) - I don't see how facing the best opponents you could hope for would be punishment for someone who only cares about getting better. But hey, keep raging, eventually you might even get to try it. edit: and now people are mentioning it, I also remember reading that this thing you're raging about isn't actually even possible. Anybody got source?
Have you been on reddit today? It's apparently all that's happening in NA high elo soloq...
And rank is not an abstract concept...
League was actually pretty accurate with it's ranks. Your average gold player will get destroyed by most low plats, who'll get rekt by most mid plats, who'll get rekt by most high plats. And in diamond there are noticeable difference even between individual tiers.
Now these ranks are going to be basically meaningless, especially since everyone's getting reset in a week to make completely sure there's no actual prior skill based objective reasoning interfering with your "who am i friends with" emblem people have on their profile now
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On January 16 2016 00:02 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:58 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 23:50 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me. I never knew my ego was - a scenario where you can end up as a solo player with 4 others with voice comm, possibly playing the whole game without any interaction from your teammates - an mmr system, which ranks your solo performance based on how you played with possibly up to four other teammates - a master/challenger level player, who gets queued up against 5 premade LCS players, and is suddenly being punished for being among the best players In top of that, Riot did not include built-in voice comm to a game mode which they said they created because this game meant to be played together, and you have a total fuck-up ready to serve. But I'm glad you are this ignorant, I think it only proves our point in the midst of this chaos, when people like you "srengthens" the camp of defenders. - I don't soloQ because I'm desperate for interaction from the rest of my team. - rank is an abstract concept, eventually you are getting matched with other people that, premade or not, you have about 50% chance of beating. (this is the ego I was talking about, wah I'm no longer platinum!) - I don't see how facing the best opponents you could hope for would be punishment for someone who only cares about getting better. But hey, keep raging, eventually you might even get to try it. edit: and now people are mentioning it, I also remember reading that this thing you're raging about isn't actually even possible. Anybody got source? Have you been on reddit today? It's apparently all that's happening in NA high elo soloq... And rank is not an abstract concept... League was actually pretty accurate with it's ranks. Your average gold player will get destroyed by most low plats, who'll get rekt by most mid plats, who'll get rekt by most high plats. And in diamond there are noticeable difference even between individual tiers. Now these ranks are going to be basically meaningless, especially since everyone's getting reset in a week to make completely sure there's no actual prior skill based objective reasoning interfering with your "who am i friends with" emblem people have on their profile now
I don't reddit, but cmon, a brand new system isn't working to perfection? Perish the thought.
And your "rank" is an abstract concept. 1000 elo or 2000, gold or plat, what it all boils down to is what kind of opposition you face, which after enough games is going to be people who are roughly as good as you, premade or no.
And the reset happens every season and it is always a clusterfuck, perhaps less so in recent times because they do "soft" resets now. I don't look forward to that either but oh well.
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On January 15 2016 23:55 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:47 Ketara wrote:
There's a lot of talk about being queued up as a 5 man premade vs 5 solos in this thread.
And I'm pretty sure they said when they were making this thing that they'd made it impossible, or unlikely to the point of being functionally impossible, for that to happen.
Pretty sure they said that 99% of the time you'll be matched up against teams with the same queue stacks as you.
Is there something where they said that they were undoing that? This was mostly an issue in higher elo but they turned it off to try to fix it. Dunno what that fix will do though. Will it change lp/mmr gain or will it make it much rarer? Well league of legends has a lot more structured basic level so it makes sense for soloq to be taken more seriously than cs/dota imo. The whole roles/lanes enforce this. In dota drafting and roles aren't this specific.
I feel it's more the monetization system than the game these days. The comp game is so different to solo q that can't really say it's that anymore. It's a lot harder to get into a team game or pickup when you have to buy all the meta champs and runes to be able to do that. Also the lack of voice. Sure setting up a TS server for your pickup league may be easy enough but it's an extra layer of work people have to do which given how young the player base for league is I don't think many are used to that kind of thing.
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Are there any source links with confirmation that it's happening and is not a bugado?
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Disregarding everything else, you should not release a new system to the public with basic bugs such as assigning 2 supports/2 junglers/etc to a game. That is just really bad, and it happened in 50% of my games.
Another thing that sucks is they got rid of the client pinging you when it was your turn to take action. Was browsing multiple times and got dodges because the system no longer tells you, I guess you have to watch intently for the entire super long new champ select.
Doing everything by 1s is insanely tedious, the new champ select is too long. they need to find a way to shorten it.
I won't get into whether it's good or not because im not sure yet but basic technical bugs/oversights like this are pretty bad. I'll be surprised if season 6 is ready in a week like they say
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Step 1: "Guy's let's not panic, this system is new it's bound to have bugs, Riot says they intent to fix it so they DEFINITELY WILL"
Step 2: System gets slightly improved but it's still bad, but everyone got used to it so any criticism is labeled as blind riot hate.
I'm pretty disgusted by people who have any faith in Riot left tbh fam. The EUW soloq is a truth that Riot lies all the time about systems they are implementing, among countless other examples.
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On January 16 2016 00:07 Ketara wrote:
Are there any source links with confirmation that it's happening and is not a bugado?
Riot disabling the que not enough? There have been a few screenshots of 5 man teams like tl facing 5 randoms in soloq. Or clg 5 man facing 5 d1 solo players.
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On January 16 2016 00:11 AlterKot wrote:
Step 1: "Guy's let's not panic, this system is new it's bound to have bugs, Riot says they intent to fix it so they DEFINITELY WILL"
Step 2: System gets slightly improved but it's still bad, but everyone got used to it so any criticism is labeled as blind riot hate.
I'm pretty disgusted by people who have any faith in Riot left tbh fam. The EUW soloq is a truth that Riot lies all the time about systems they are implementing, among countless other examples.
You missed
Step 3: Point out that rankings are now completely meaningless, get bitched out for being egoistical and superior and you should suck it up
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Them disabling sounds like it's a bug and not intended though? I do agree with VA though that introducing a system and having it completely fail at doing what it's meant to do on day 1 sounds rather hilarious but then again this is Riot we talking about.
On January 16 2016 00:13 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 00:11 AlterKot wrote:
Step 1: "Guy's let's not panic, this system is new it's bound to have bugs, Riot says they intent to fix it so they DEFINITELY WILL"
Step 2: System gets slightly improved but it's still bad, but everyone got used to it so any criticism is labeled as blind riot hate.
I'm pretty disgusted by people who have any faith in Riot left tbh fam. The EUW soloq is a truth that Riot lies all the time about systems they are implementing, among countless other examples. You missed Step 3: Point out that rankings are now completely meaningless, get bitched out for being egoistical and superior and you should suck it up
I'm not really going to get into that since I don't play much anymore but I think a case could be made that Rankings now aren't meaningless but different. Instead of "skill based on Solo performance or Duo" it could be "skill based on performance in a team or group" kind of thing. Don't really know if that kind of argument would hold water though.
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On January 16 2016 00:11 AlterKot wrote:
Step 1: "Guy's let's not panic, this system is new it's bound to have bugs, Riot says they intent to fix it so they DEFINITELY WILL"
Step 2: System gets slightly improved but it's still bad, but everyone got used to it so any criticism is labeled as blind riot hate.
I'm pretty disgusted by people who have any faith in Riot left tbh fam. The EUW soloq is a truth that Riot lies all the time about systems they are implementing, among countless other examples.
And all other things being equal there will always be people spewing endless vomit over what is essentially everyone's favorite game.
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On January 16 2016 00:13 Numy wrote:Them disabling sounds like it's a bug and not intended though? I do agree with VA though that introducing a system and having it completely fail at doing what it's meant to do on day 1 sounds rather hilarious but then again this is Riot we talking about. Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 00:13 killerdog wrote:On January 16 2016 00:11 AlterKot wrote:
Step 1: "Guy's let's not panic, this system is new it's bound to have bugs, Riot says they intent to fix it so they DEFINITELY WILL"
Step 2: System gets slightly improved but it's still bad, but everyone got used to it so any criticism is labeled as blind riot hate.
I'm pretty disgusted by people who have any faith in Riot left tbh fam. The EUW soloq is a truth that Riot lies all the time about systems they are implementing, among countless other examples. You missed Step 3: Point out that rankings are now completely meaningless, get bitched out for being egoistical and superior and you should suck it up I'm not really going to get into that since I don't play much anymore but I think a case could be made that Rankings now aren't meaningless but different. Instead of "skill based on Solo performance or Duo" it could be "skill based on performance in a team or group" kind of thing. Don't really know if that kind of argument would hold water though.
It is just even more of a cosmetic than it already was. Just think about how someone who always plays solo in plat 5 vs someone who plays on 5man in plat 5 have literally nothing in common but share the same rank icon.
Just because I play a game and I enjoy it doesn't mean I am gonna completely ignore all it's faults and just accept riot as my new deity lol. I am confident in saying that anyone who is familiar with dota 2 would agree that everything outside of the game itself like client/hud/cosmetics/ease of getting information/being able to actually test shit in customs ( also not being unable to play on euw and eune with the same account thanks rito  )) ) is straight up better.
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For people below high diamond, they invalidated the only real measure of progress/competition you had. And for people above high diamond they broke the game.
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Oh I played against a riot 5 man last night of riotzale riot tegea riot nicky wu and some others cant remember. heckled the shit out of them lol
They were using all top tier characters when I was just fucking around in a normal with some friends, hilarious.
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EPT
