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Gameplay discussion should go in the Gameplay Discussion thread. Gameplay discussion includes, but is not exclusive to: - Runes and masteries
- Item builds
- Jungle paths
- Playstyle and skill order for new/updated champions
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On January 15 2016 22:48 Osmoses wrote:
The other team is stronger than your team, makes the game harder. Opposition is tougher. What do you want, a drawing?
It makes only part of the game harder. When the enemy 4 mans your mid 4 times because they are on teamspeak while you aren't how are you supposed to compete unless you are A LOT better than everyone individually? That just makes games fucking stupid.
This doesn't really make games harder. It just forces everyone to group. This isn't a game where 1v9 practice is what you need. With every single season riot are pushing more teamplay and coordination so the skillset that is valued is changed. This makes soloq fucking awful to play.
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I can kind of see what you mean, but I think you're blowing the advantage of being premade waay out of proportion. I mean check the shikyo thread, there is no shortage of complaining in there about people's retarded friends that they 5man with.
There are disadvantages to premades too. The first is, how many friends do you have in your own elo? I can barely scrape 4 people who also play league, and they range from silver to diamond. And how do you explain to your silver botlaners that ganking their lost lane is a bad call?
So further up the ladder then, imagine a team of 5 masters vs 5 complete randoms. There's definitely an advantage here I think, but at this level even randoms know the game well enough to not just get rolled because the enemy is premade. It forces individual players to up their map awareness and to basically up their own game. I mean, in what world is a game automatically won or lost just because 5 people are on shouting at each other in teamspeak?
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On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful?
I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go.
Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things?
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On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things?
It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason.
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I give this at most 3 weeks before it's reverted, it's the most hilarious lack of awareness displayed by Riot so far
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On January 15 2016 23:06 Osmoses wrote:
I can kind of see what you mean, but I think you're blowing the advantage of being premade waay out of proportion. I mean check the shikyo thread, there is no shortage of complaining in there about people's retarded friends that they 5man with.
There are disadvantages to premades too. The first is, how many friends do you have in your own elo? I can barely scrape 4 people who also play league, and they range from silver to diamond. And how do you explain to your silver botlaners that ganking their lost lane is a bad call?
So further up the ladder then, imagine a team of 5 masters vs 5 complete randoms. There's definitely an advantage here I think, but at this level even randoms know the game well enough to not just get rolled because the enemy is premade. It forces individual players to up their map awareness and to basically up their own game. I mean, in what world is a game automatically won or lost just because 5 people are on shouting at each other in teamspeak?
You could just not que with your silver friends when you are plat...
How is this shit not beyond obvious??? You are for example 1xd3/2xd2/2xd1 vs 2xd2/3xd1 ( average game in that mmr) except one team is 5 man while the other is 5 solo players. How is that fair matchmaking? This is why you need to change the mmr of people who group to balance the communication advantage.... In lower elos there are a lot of people so if the system really does try to match people in groups vs people in groups it is fine but once you get to a lower amount of players that simply doesn't work.
And no the randoms don't know the game well enough in your example. You not knowing any players in your mmr range doesn't mean others don't.
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On January 15 2016 23:12 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things? It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason.
What are you refering to? Aren't CS/Dota still using it?
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On January 15 2016 23:14 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:06 Osmoses wrote:
I can kind of see what you mean, but I think you're blowing the advantage of being premade waay out of proportion. I mean check the shikyo thread, there is no shortage of complaining in there about people's retarded friends that they 5man with.
There are disadvantages to premades too. The first is, how many friends do you have in your own elo? I can barely scrape 4 people who also play league, and they range from silver to diamond. And how do you explain to your silver botlaners that ganking their lost lane is a bad call?
So further up the ladder then, imagine a team of 5 masters vs 5 complete randoms. There's definitely an advantage here I think, but at this level even randoms know the game well enough to not just get rolled because the enemy is premade. It forces individual players to up their map awareness and to basically up their own game. I mean, in what world is a game automatically won or lost just because 5 people are on shouting at each other in teamspeak? You could just not que with your silver friends when you are plat... How is this shit not beyond obvious??? You are for example 1xd3/2xd2/2xd1 vs 2xd2/3xd1 ( average game in that mmr) except one team is 5 man while the other is 5 solo players. How is that fair matchmaking? This is why you need to change the mmr of people who group to balance the communication advantage.... In lower elos there are a lot of people so if the system really does try to match people in groups vs people in groups it is fine but once you get to a lower amount of players that simply doesn't work. And no the randoms don't know the game well enough in your example.
Well, if the elo is adjusted then you are just shifting the difficulty from the enemy communication advantage to all of them being worse players. I mean, is that better?
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On January 15 2016 23:21 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:14 nafta wrote:On January 15 2016 23:06 Osmoses wrote:
I can kind of see what you mean, but I think you're blowing the advantage of being premade waay out of proportion. I mean check the shikyo thread, there is no shortage of complaining in there about people's retarded friends that they 5man with.
There are disadvantages to premades too. The first is, how many friends do you have in your own elo? I can barely scrape 4 people who also play league, and they range from silver to diamond. And how do you explain to your silver botlaners that ganking their lost lane is a bad call?
So further up the ladder then, imagine a team of 5 masters vs 5 complete randoms. There's definitely an advantage here I think, but at this level even randoms know the game well enough to not just get rolled because the enemy is premade. It forces individual players to up their map awareness and to basically up their own game. I mean, in what world is a game automatically won or lost just because 5 people are on shouting at each other in teamspeak? You could just not que with your silver friends when you are plat... How is this shit not beyond obvious??? You are for example 1xd3/2xd2/2xd1 vs 2xd2/3xd1 ( average game in that mmr) except one team is 5 man while the other is 5 solo players. How is that fair matchmaking? This is why you need to change the mmr of people who group to balance the communication advantage.... In lower elos there are a lot of people so if the system really does try to match people in groups vs people in groups it is fine but once you get to a lower amount of players that simply doesn't work. And no the randoms don't know the game well enough in your example. Well, if the elo is adjusted then you are just shifting the difficulty from the enemy communication advantage to all of them being worse players. I mean, is that better?
Don't think it is the best solution but it is better than nothing.
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Well, if the communication advantage is as great as you think it is it ought to become obvious fairly quickly. But even CLG throw at baron every other game.
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On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game".
Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not.
I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region.
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On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region.
The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me.
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On January 15 2016 23:18 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:12 Prog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things? It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason. What are you refering to? Aren't CS/Dota still using it?
Heroes of the Storm. But you are right, some games with voicechats use it. That's a pretty big difference though.
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On January 15 2016 23:18 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:12 Prog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things? It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason. What are you refering to? Aren't CS/Dota still using it?
Dota has two completely seperate mmr's. One for when you solo play and one for when you play in a group of 2-5 people.
CSGO bases it's rating off your performance, not just the end result, so the better performing players gain elo and worse performing ones don't.
Not at all comparable to the clusterfuck riot has just implemented
On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me.
TIL that wanting a valid ranking system in a game apparently makes me an egomaniac...
How's life in your ivory tower of self enlightenment?
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On January 15 2016 23:33 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:18 AlterKot wrote:On January 15 2016 23:12 Prog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:07 killerdog wrote:On January 15 2016 23:01 JimmiC wrote:
Every change this same sky is falling rhetoric comes out. How about we give it some time and play some games before we assume it is awful? I mean, some things are ridiculous enough that you can see they're retarded from the get go. Isn't CLG winning a bunch of games against noname, ungrouped randoms all in sub 20 minutes, and that being the new standard for high elo soloq one of those things? It's also not untested. Other games stopped using dynamic queuing for a reason. What are you refering to? Aren't CS/Dota still using it? Heroes of the Storm. But you are right, some games with voicechats use it. That's a pretty big difference though.
In CSGO and Dota you also can't get matched as 5 solo's vs 5man stacks.
I like the idea of dynamic queue, but so far the implementation sucks.
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On January 15 2016 23:31 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 23:28 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 22:34 Osmoses wrote:On January 15 2016 19:40 Volband wrote:On January 15 2016 18:09 Osmoses wrote:
At the end of the day, just play the game. I'm glad that even in 2016, on a game discussion board nonetheless, we can still use the "IT'S JUST A GAME, BRO!" argument. Seriously, there numerous valid concerns across every elo, especially high d/masters/challenger, and you think JUST PLAY THE GAME will suddenly solve everything? You culd literally make a stamp with that quote and apply it to every single concern regarding the game. I thought we've outgrown this cliché. What are you even talking about? "just play the game" is not even remotely the same thing as "it's just a game". Same empty BS, backed up by arguments like it's not just my rank which will be invalidated, but everyone else's so it's evenly """fun""" for everyone involved! Yeah, not. I'm really happy for the clusterfuck in high elo, because unlike the destruction of SOLO queue in lower elos, Riot can not overlook it. Quite funny when you are actually considered lucky for not being one of the best players in your region. The only problem with this change is the hurt caused to your ego. That doesn't really bother me.
No, the problem with this change is that when you get queued up vs a 5man premade as 5 solos the game becomes unfair because one side has an inherent advantage over the other side, which is communication.
Now you can say that the impact of communication is small (which I also don't agree with, but w/e), but there's still definitely an impact there, which makes it that one side has an advantage over the other side before pick/ban even starts. This is also of course the case with just pure player skill, but that is already balanced with MMR, while this isn't balanced at all, so something needs to be done about it.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Guys, guys.... Take it easy.
As new matchmaking/ranking system from Riot is a good thing to discuss, if it comes to ego discussion, please take it to private messages.
Also I also think that you shouldn't be able to be matched against 3-4-5 man stack when you're solo queuing. The whole point of solo queue is a non-sense if it makes you play that way.
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I think it would be mostly fine if they added voice chat but...
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There's a lot of talk about being queued up as a 5 man premade vs 5 solos in this thread.
And I'm pretty sure they said when they were making this thing that they'd made it impossible, or unlikely to the point of being functionally impossible, for that to happen.
Pretty sure they said that 99% of the time you'll be matched up against teams with the same queue stacks as you.
Is there something where they said that they were undoing that?
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EPT
