EPT[Patch 6.1] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 17
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Gameplay discussion should go in the Gameplay Discussion thread. Gameplay discussion includes, but is not exclusive to:
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 21 2016 18:27 IMoperator wrote: runes should just be free tbh, i know it will never happen since it's Riot but there's seriously no point in having to buy them. Just give everyone access to all tier 3 runes and you'll see more unique rune pages based on playstyles etc. Having to buy them with IP creates an IP sink. People that want to heavily play the game will feel the desire to minmax rune pages. These people are also more likely to buy RP and are even more incentivized to do so when they spend a bunch of IP on runes. It has nothing to do with Riot "being Riot", but because Riot is a business. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On January 21 2016 18:49 Gahlo wrote: Having to buy them with IP creates an IP sink. People that want to heavily play the game will feel the desire to minmax rune pages. These people are also more likely to buy RP and are even more incentivized to do so when they spend a bunch of IP on runes. It has nothing to do with Riot "being Riot", but because Riot is a business. that's what i meant by riot being riot, should've clarified. i mean they literally created chroma skins and sold them for rp. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 21 2016 19:29 IMoperator wrote: that's what i meant by riot being riot, should've clarified. i mean they literally created chroma skins and sold them for rp. Have you not seen some of the older skins like the Ashe and Kennen recolors? | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On January 21 2016 18:49 Gahlo wrote: Having to buy them with IP creates an IP sink. People that want to heavily play the game will feel the desire to minmax rune pages. These people are also more likely to buy RP and are even more incentivized to do so when they spend a bunch of IP on runes. It has nothing to do with Riot "being Riot", but because Riot is a business. how do u know it would drop their revenue from RP, theres decent chance people would spend same amount of money but on skins instead of champions, look at dota there is no runes, every champion is free and they still earn shit ton of money | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 21 2016 19:46 kongoline wrote: how do u know it would drop their revenue from RP, theres decent chance people would spend same amount of money but on skins instead of champions, look at dota there is no runes, every champion is free and they still earn shit ton of money Because you can buy champions with IP only if you have IP. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 21 2016 20:19 kongoline wrote: so ? theres plenty of people who dont own majority of champions and those who buy RP regularly probably would keep doing that anyway just for skins Right, because nobody ever buys champions with RP. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 21 2016 16:31 kongoline wrote: try jungling on new account without runes, play hec/ryze without ms runes,jax/irelia or any attack speed based jungler without AS quints, play any precision abusing champion like zed with standard ad page instead of armor pen, trust me it makes huge difference does it matter? yes. but i already said there are some champions with trash jungling clearing ability for the first clear. but you can still jungle with them on tier 1 runes if you are really desperate or you can be really smart about it and pick a character that is less rune dependent like vi. the bigger issue here is the slot unlocks not the runes themselves. as it so happens my smurf account is like 95% jungle hecarim games and currently level 21. so i can tell you from experience that you only need 6 flat armor seals to make it through the first clear pretty comfortably without any quints. that is a whole 600 ip boys. in any case flat armor are likely gonna be the first runes that any serious jungle player buys and guess what, they are dirt cheap now. out of all the games i've played on that account none of the wins or losses were determined by the missing quints and rest of runes. some characters do have a hard time with the first clear but those are edge cases and not the norm. there are already exists plenty of workarounds for these cases. it's completely ridiculous to think that runes are the reason you are winning and losing or that they should be given out for free because they somehow help new players learn the game. for laners, it doesn't matter at all in low level games because there isn't a magical 'gear check' that is jungle camps. it's just a case of how well you can lane vs other non 30s-low diamonds. it's more than doable to play this game right now a very strict IP budget, if you don't want to then you can buy your characters with rp but giving new players free runes doesn't help with anything. no runes vs runes is win vs "win more". by themselves they have a very tiny impact on the outcome of each individual game you are playing | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On January 22 2016 01:08 Frolossus wrote: some characters do have a hard time with the first clear but those are edge cases and not the norm. there are already exists plenty of workarounds for these cases. it's completely ridiculous to think that runes are the reason you are winning and losing or that they should be given out for free because they somehow help new players learn the game. for laners, it doesn't matter at all in low level games because there isn't a magical 'gear check' that is jungle camps. it's just a case of how well you can lane vs other non 30s-low diamonds. it's more than doable to play this game right now a very strict IP budget, if you don't want to then you can buy your characters with rp but giving new players free runes doesn't help with anything. Saying runes don't make any difference is bollocks. Whether or not you can win games on your smurf account against other low-level players is completely irrelevant. Runes give you stats, a significant amount at that. If runes don't matter, then stats don't matter, so clearly not buying any starting item also doesn't matter. And guess what, you can totally win without buying a starting item! That doesn't mean it's a good idea, it doesn't mean it's helping you learn anything, it doesn't mean starting items don't matter until some magical "high elo" land where stats suddenly become important where they weren't important before. I don't understand why this is even up for debate. You're handicapping yourself by not having runes when others do, this is not even up for debate. You can also win games against new players as AP Riven, that doesn't mean that it is a good idea or that building AD instead of AP on Riven is somehow holding back low elo players from becoming better. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 22 2016 01:46 bmn wrote: Saying runes don't make any difference is bollocks. Whether or not you can win games on your smurf account against other low-level players is completely irrelevant. Runes give you stats, a significant amount at that. If runes don't matter, then stats don't matter, so clearly not buying any starting item also doesn't matter. And guess what, you can totally win without buying a starting item! That doesn't mean it's a good idea, it doesn't mean it's helping you learn anything, it doesn't mean starting items don't matter until some magical "high elo" land where stats suddenly become important where they weren't important before. I don't understand why this is even up for debate. You're handicapping yourself by not having runes when others do, this is not even up for debate. You can also win games against new players as AP Riven, that doesn't mean that it is a good idea or that building AD instead of AP on Riven is somehow holding back low elo players from becoming better. you totally can though. winning with suboptimal builds happens all the time, but it's not because of the lack of stats, rather good gameplay or exploiting the other teams mistakes. what difference does it make for an ADC to have PD or zeal if they misposition and die right away? what difference does 15 ap make for a mid laner that isn't last hitting properly or weaving in auto attacks for extra damage properly? runes really don't matter for new players. the more limiting factor is the slot unlocks here not the runes themselves. the system works as it is. it only becomes a handicap for new players when smurfs have them. legitimately new players don't give any fucks about what runes they have. giving people free runes would actually hurt new players with the current system. you need 7671 ip to come up with 3 AP quints, 3 AD quints, 9 armor seals, 9 mpen marks, 9 AD marks, 9 mr glyphs every fresh level 30 can afford those well before they get to level 30 and these will more than suit their needs for ranked games. hell i double xp boosted my smurf and could still afford that by level 20. 7.6k ip is like 1-2 weeks of playing. whatever minuscule difference does exist between no runes and a full set of tier 3 runes, it is infinitely smaller between some super niche rune page and those 7671 ip tier 3 runes that everyone can afford. and if you fucked up badly and spent that 7.6k on the newest released character during their opening week you could still buy a full set of tier 1 runes which are >half the stats of the full tier 3 pages for ~1/35 the costs. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 21 2016 14:46 KissBlade wrote: That is patently false because I've hit plat with using only Tier 2.5 runes on my smurf. Heck I can probably even do it using only one runepage as long as I play only very specific champions. Is your main also in Plat 5? Because that's really what it boils down to. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 22 2016 02:18 cLutZ wrote: Is your main also in Plat 5? Because that's really what it boils down to. it doesn't matter what his main account is. many people have proven over and over that runes don't have a significant impact on the ladder experience. when someone else does something with limited or even no runes, the correct mindset to have is not "oh wow they are clearly better than me so i could never do that" instead it is -how did they do it? -how can i replicate their success? i'm betting it has nothing to do with which runes he used and everything to do with how he played the game. there exists similar issues in other games as well. in starcraft, low ranked players fuss over the specific build order optimizations or the race/matchup that they think cost them the game when in reality they had 3k mineral/gas unspent in the bank and could've rolled over the other guy with proper macro. or in hearthstone people who bitch about not having certain situational legendaries for some of their decks because they are too expensive and not having them prevents them from ranking up. what actually happens is they are too absorbed in the cards they either don't have or the specific tech choices they make that they are completely oblivious to the fact that they misplayed or didn't see lethal or mulliganed completely wrong and it cost them the game. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 22 2016 02:20 Frolossus wrote: it doesn't matter what his main account is. many people have proven over and over that runes don't have a significant impact on the ladder experience. when someone else does something with limited or even no runes, the correct mindset to have is not "oh wow they are clearly better than me so i could never do that" instead it is -how did they do it? -how can i replicate their success? i'm betting it has nothing to do with which runes he used and everything to do with how he played the game. there exists similar issues in other games as well. in starcraft, low ranked players fuss over the specific build order optimizations or the race/matchup that they think cost them the game when in reality they had 3k mineral/gas unspent in the bank and could've rolled over the other guy with proper macro. or in hearthstone people who bitch about not having certain situational legendaries for some of their decks because they are too expensive and not having them prevents them from ranking up. what actually happens is they are too absorbed in the cards they either don't have or the specific tech choices they make that they are completely oblivious to the fact that they misplayed or didn't see lethal or mulliganed completely wrong and it cost them the game. Actually, thats the whole point. If his main is D5 and he "managed" to get plat with t2.5 runes it means good runes are worth a tier of skill. The point is not whether Bjergson can get challenger with 3 rune pages, the point is whether he would go into a match against Febiven with 3 rune pages. Because every person you face is your own Febiven. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 22 2016 03:37 cLutZ wrote: Actually, thats the whole point. If his main is D5 and he "managed" to get plat with t2.5 runes it means good runes are worth a tier of skill. The point is not whether Bjergson can get challenger with 3 rune pages, the point is whether he would go into a match against Febiven with 3 rune pages. Because every person you face is your own Febiven. bullshit. how do you know it wasn't simply a case of playing enough games to get back to diamond? even top challenger players get their fresh smurfs back to top challenger in a matter of weeks. look at pobelter, xj9, jiji, chauster, wild turtle, doublelift, faker, rush, apdo etc runes are definitely not worth a tier of play. that is the most absurd statement i've ever heard regarding this game and i've been around for over 6 years. how do elo boosters manage to take accounts without highly optimized runes take accounts to whatever bracket they want at 90%+ win rates? it certainly isn't their runes and to imply otherwise is a joke my smurf is level 21 right now and i'm totally confident that i could get it to diamond this year with a single rune page of ad/ad/armor/mr costing me ~3200 ip | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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