EPT[Patch 5.15] Fiora Remake General Discussion - Page 24
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Reminder the PBE thread has been revived - please take PBE discussion there, thanks! http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/491813-pbe-515-juggernaughts-general-discussion | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:19 Caiada wrote: They were arguing soloq winrate is somehow important for champion strength in competitive. So I provided a bunch of examples of how that's nonsense. no the argument was solo q winrate is more important then competitive winrate since competitive winrate can be skewed very easily by the large skill level difference. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
look at how long hecarim went under the radar that said soraka is obviously going to have some problems in competitive (supports are usually picked early, lots of really OP supports available, can't harass at all in laneswaps) | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
1) Difficult champions are anti-soloq 2) She doesn't snowball hard 3) She's not that easy to gank for in comparison to most popular mids 4) Yasuo and Zed On August 11 2015 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: no the argument was solo q winrate is more important then competitive winrate since competitive winrate can be skewed very easily by the large skill level difference. Which doesn't make sense if the metas aren't comparable. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
it would seem on the surface she is bad as teut said not getting the 2v2 would likely be devastating for her | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:22 Slayer91 wrote: an important point is that nobody at all has ever played new soraka in competitive, that might mean he's bad but it also might mean that nobody practiced her -->nobody plays her -->nobody sees her -->nobody practices here circle look at how long hecarim went under the radar that said soraka is obviously going to have some problems in competitive (supports are usually picked early, lots of really OP supports available, can't harass at all in laneswaps) http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/IEM_Season_IX_-_San_Jose/Picks_and_Bans only time she was played as far as I am aware in c9 vs uol and c9 vs alliance. Her strong points aren't really something that is desired in competetive so it makes sense nobody has really played her.Especially the whole sucks donkey dick at roaming. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: no the argument was solo q winrate is more important then competitive winrate since competitive winrate can be skewed very easily by the large skill level difference. competitive win rate is much easier to look at the contributing factors to it than solo queue. very large skill difference for a single team can be disregarded but when trends are formed across many teams and many regions THEN you can clearly see whether or not something needs to be adjusted. how things get picked works like this: one team or coach or whatever comes up with a pick, then either does really well or really poorly with it during scrims or matches early in the season. then that character is either picked more and more or less and less. if they see continued success on that character then other teams and players will pick them up. when they experience similar results with that character suddenly you have something with a high win rate across teams and regions and many flags are set off indicating that a character might be too strong. if other teams can't repeat the success with a character then they don't pick them and no trend is formed. this makes sense right? if one character has a good win rate in competitive across multiple teams and multiple regions then it indicates that there is room to balance them. if one team or player does well enough with it then everyone else will attempt to copy or ban it. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: no the argument was solo q winrate is more important then competitive winrate since competitive winrate can be skewed very easily by the large skill level difference. SoloQ and Competitive winrates were (are) the pillars on which Gouindomgdong's theory that Viktor is not a good competitive pick is built. Which is what the discussion boils down to. Of course, according to his theory, Gragas is also bad in competitive. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
1) How does competitive win rate feed into your judgment of whether the champion is good in competitive play? - I think it's difficult to get much data on competitive win rates, particularly if you try to normalize for schedules. Such an analysis will be too limited and you're better off with a qualitative assessment (perhaps affected by (3) below). 2) How does competitive win rate feed into your judgment of whether the champion is good in solo queue? - No effect whatsoever because ranked solo queue is literally nothing at all like ranked 5v5s. 3) How does solo queue win rate feed into your judgment of whether the champion is good in competitive play? - Slightly useful, but in a different way than (1). There is a lot more data, but solo queue is so different than competitive play (see (2)) that it's hard to extrapolate. Ideal would be high-level ranked team play win rate stats. 4) How does solo queue win rate feed into your judgment of whether the champion is good in solo queue? - I think this is extremely useful and currently significantly under-utilized. Plus it has the added bonus of allowing me to identify retards. For example, people who say "win rates don't mean shit because Anivia has a high win rate but she's still a shit champion, it's just that people who play her are really good at her, while Lee Sin has a low win rate but is a super OP champion, she just is hard to play well" I can automatically identify as having zero understanding of statistics or critical thinking. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Soloq is not competitive. It's really that simple. Competitive is not a large or controlled source of data. You need to make judgement calls. If your only argument is winrate, you don't have an argument. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:26 nafta wrote: http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/IEM_Season_IX_-_San_Jose/Picks_and_Bans only time she was played as far as I am aware in c9 vs uol and c9 vs alliance. Her strong points aren't really something that is desired in competetive so it makes sense nobody has really played her.Especially the whole sucks donkey dick at roaming. her roaming is actually sick you run to mid laen heal him to full and its gg | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:22 Slayer91 wrote: an important point is that nobody at all has ever played new soraka in competitive, that might mean he's bad but it also might mean that nobody practiced her -->nobody plays her -->nobody sees her -->nobody practices here circle look at how long hecarim went under the radar that said soraka is obviously going to have some problems in competitive (supports are usually picked early, lots of really OP supports available, can't harass at all in laneswaps) She doesn't have a very good winrate. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/jwuZp/c4be78d9ee.png) | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On August 11 2015 03:14 Caiada wrote: 6 times, 5 losses. I admire the persistence. Santorin did something similar with Gragas. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Does xmithie get the same credit for his Sej play? Lol. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Alright. | ||
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