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On June 20 2015 01:17 ticklishmusic wrote:
Azir is probably in need of a nerf, he's been tuned for regular players who struggle with his unique style and his sort of clunkiness. In the hands of a pro who knows how to use him, he's kinda too good.
the biggest issue i have with azir is how basically free his lane harass is.
soldiers have too much reach and not enough way to get around and punish
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I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
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See "there are reasons even if you don't like them" isn't "there are reasons, here's which ones".
He's got stronger wave clear than Azir, LB, Cass and arguably Ekko (they clear fine actually, he does push faster though), weaker than Varus, but even if that was the case you need much more than that to be a top pick. And he loses to Ekko, Cass, Azir, etc. in damage. He's got poke on paper, but Varus beats him there and it's on a long cd + high cost, etc.
I don't see anywhere where I wouldn't think "oh hey X is doing better than him", 'cept for "poke who can teamfight" since caster Varus' is weak at teamfighting, but I don't think his poke is strong enough compared to how inferior his damage output/teamfighting range is (and if you watch, they don't poke/siege with Viktor, they try to fight).
Azir's superior in zone control too.
I don't lane vs Azir often so I dunno how too strong or versatile his laning is (as it's supposed to be weak) but my issue is with the nuking power of Q over a main role of positioning.
Azir shouldn't deal about half your HP (unless you stacked MR) with Q + 2 free autos (due to the slow) by 2 soldiers, especially when he only has 3 big items. Reward him for positioning well and being able to keep autoing people, not for casting Q on someone in range on cd.
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On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote:
I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
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On June 20 2015 02:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote:
I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff. That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
...so?
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Yeah, I guess you're right. Who would want to pick the 2nd best poke mage/zone control that can also teamfight well? Why wouldn't I pick something that is better in one of those categories instead of a champion that's superior in at least two of them?
On top of that Viktor is easy to hit his powerspike on because unlike Azir, Cass, and Varus you don't need to wait on Tears to stack or concerning more niche picks like Kass and Ryze to wait on RoA. Not to mention Ekko is difficult to even take advantage of properly as a singular champion, let alone work properly with as a team.
And about half the map is definitely not a bunch of hallways that he can fish in a barrel, due to vector targeting, better than arguably all but a single champion in the entire game.
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Alaric, no one disagrees that Azir is a strong pick, but Viktor is clearly 1b to his 1a right now, and you are blind to this for unknown reasons. The only plausible one I can see is that you don't know about augment upgrades.
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On June 20 2015 02:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote:
I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff. That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
I don't see why it would be so convoluted. Azir summons a sand soldier, it has X amount of health and can still do everything the current sand soldiers do. The lane opponent can:
1. Walk around and avoid the soldier's AA range and try to continue CSing or pressuring Azir.
2. Kill the soldier so they can go back to CSing without fear of getting damaged or all-ined, but the slow field discourages them from going all-in themselves as Azir walks back.
3. Go all-in anyway and see if they can blow up Azir before dying or jungler/support intervention.
Compare that to now, where all the lane opponent can do is 1 or 3, which leaves Azir pretty safe to farm, apply pressure, threaten an all-in himself, or even go roam to help with dragon or a turret dive.
And once lane phase ends and teams start grouping up for sieges/fights it nerfs his potential damage he can deal in a team fight, or at least forces him to think about when to throw a soldier out instead of now where he just throws 1 or 2 out and pressures the enemy team off an objective. It allows for more counterplay on both sides (take down the soldiers to stop the harass for the enemy side, try and use the soldiers' slow field to let your dive/siege be more threatening/damaging).
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On June 20 2015 02:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 02:04 wei2coolman wrote:On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote:
I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff. That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL ...so?
Considering how dumb stuff like ekko's w and yasuo passive, do we really need more and more multifaceted abilities?
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In what situations will be better to max E 1st on Malph?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 20 2015 03:36 M2 wrote:
In what situations will be better to max E 1st on Malph?
If you're in matchups vs melees.
Or if you just came to farm.
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I tend to prefer it vs stuff like Vlad too because they'll shove and you need a way to counter that. Maybe I just play bad though.
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I've only started playing Malphite since the change to his W, but in his bad matchups I just go full cheesedog, grab 3x Doran's Ring and max Q so I can bully them around thanks to his Doran's empowered passive and the infinite mana since you just cs by lasthitting, you can a really high kill potential at level 6 with the additional AP too. Not sure if it's actually a good strategy but at least it works in high plat/low diamond MMR. lol
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On June 20 2015 00:02 Alaric wrote:
I still fail to see why you would pick Viktor over Xerath or Ziggs if you want the waveclear.
Its because Viktor's lategame potential is much higher than Xerath or Ziggs. His combo damage is higher, his sustained damage is higher. His AoE damage is higher. He can do damage through an enemy team [unlike ziggs]. All of these things are super essential in the tank meta.
His weakness are mobility, necessity of farm, and skill both conceptually, and mechanically.
His numbers bear this out. He has a 49.12% win rate plat+. His win rate dips at 35-40 minutes but climbs back 40+ (i am guessing his early win%'s are high because its hard to beat him early, thus pushing losing games longer). His win rate increases significantly as people play him more.
This makes him a bad soloqueue champion because its a lot harder to play a farm game and then be effective in team fights when you don't have much communication. But it makes him an excellent competitive pick. Because competitive players
1) Can farm like nothing. Accelerating the point where Viktor becomes so much stronger than other picks
2) Can communicate much more efficiently, and are less prone to making the mistakes which can exploit viktor's lack of mobility (especially pre Q augment)
3) Team fight better, and so are much better at using his abilities well.
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Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
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On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote:
Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline.
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Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
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On June 20 2015 07:33 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote:
Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are. Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline.
and if you are doing this his adc is taking 0 damage.
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On June 20 2015 07:33 Goumindong wrote:
Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
I also covered this, Ziggs doesn't need nearly as an ideal of a situation to get his full damage out
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On June 20 2015 07:51 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 07:33 Gahlo wrote:On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote:
Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are. Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline. and if you are doing this his adc is taking 0 damage.
And you also don't need to actively be doing it. If Ziggs is such a damage threat and a tank is able to body block most of his damage inadvertently, I don't see an issue.
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EPT
