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True, that could be the case. Then that's on the Misfits for not using backchannels to gauge interests.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them?
I don't know. If a player really wants off a team, he can bench himself. And if he wants to get on another team, the team's management should get involved. There is no reason to keep them out of the process unless there's something wrong going on. Players aren't the only entities that need to be protected.
And iirc, CLG approached scarra/zion at NA regionals so it wasn't even pre-season 5. The fines and punishment got dished out then because it took some time to investigate.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Liquid112 posted this on Reddit regarding the Quas acquisition
I worked directly with GGLA on the Quas acquisition, this is not even close to the situation presented now. There was a substantial amount of money that was paid for the acquisition of Quas and it was handled professionally. This other organization, allegedly Misfits, directly interfered with contracts I have with my players by luring, soliciting and encouraging them to terminate their contracts. It's unethical behavior, but beyond that - there are legal rules regarding possible tortious interference of contracts - this isn't just about Riot rules.
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On May 17 2015 08:24 Saradin wrote:
True, that could be the case. Then that's on the Misfits for not using backchannels to gauge interests.
yeah I realized after posting that you'd still be right since it'd mean that misfits messed up 
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This seems weird to me. Why would Quas take a chance on a challenger team when they finally got TL working properly and finished the season in 3rd? Am I missing something?
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On May 17 2015 13:02 Sonnington wrote:
This seems weird to me. Why would Quas take a chance on a challenger team when they finally got TL working properly and finished the season in 3rd? Am I missing something?
Well, he didn't. That's why Quas hasn't moved to Misfits - they just made him the offer. It's a pretty weird offer to make, though.
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On May 17 2015 08:25 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them? I don't know. If a player really wants off a team, he can bench himself. And if he wants to get on another team, the team's management should get involved. There is no reason to keep them out of the process unless there's something wrong going on. Players aren't the only entities that need to be protected. And iirc, CLG approached scarra/zion at NA regionals so it wasn't even pre-season 5. The fines and punishment got dished out then because it took some time to investigate.
I see if it was regionals than ye make sense.
I haven't really talked much about the actual event here mainly just that I didn't get why they couldn't talk. So if I understand right Misfits guys go to Quas and talk to him without talking to Liquid first, Quas either tells Liquid this or he finds out somehow. LIquid then goes to riot and files a complaint about people messing with his contracted players. Up till this point it's completely understandable and justifiable to me. Following that is where it gets a bit murky. Liquid then goes to Richard Lewis and tells him about this while giving him a statement or Lewis gets it leaked somehow and liquid goes to give his side of the story. The latter is a lot more understandable but I question how Lewis would get this info in the first place unless Liquid members leaked it to him. After this news piece goes up Liquid and one of his managers then go to social media and start a slander campaign against the Misfits owner, calling them unprofessional and effectively condemning them as a killer of esports with their behavior. That to me is where everything goes bad. That's not only unprofessional itself but also is completely against what it means to represent Team Liquid. They already went through the proper channels and now just have to wait for Riot to investigate and make a decision. Why are they going to social media while acting that way?
I get that TL doesn't exist as it used to but do they really have to go out their way to completely shit on what TL used to mean? There is no reason for them to go on social media to do. Just wait for Riot ruling then see what to do. They are completely justifiable to go to Riot and file a complaint even though technically Riot doesn't control Misfits yet. What they did after leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not something I ever wanted to see from a TL member. I don't even see the benefit of the Curse merger honestly. So we have a LoL team now, what else? Halo and a terrible CSGO team?? Doesn't seem worth it to kill the integrity of the name.
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On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them?
Zion/Scarra was a thing because it started before their contracts were over. It just took a while to investigate things.
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On May 17 2015 19:29 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 08:25 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them? I don't know. If a player really wants off a team, he can bench himself. And if he wants to get on another team, the team's management should get involved. There is no reason to keep them out of the process unless there's something wrong going on. Players aren't the only entities that need to be protected. And iirc, CLG approached scarra/zion at NA regionals so it wasn't even pre-season 5. The fines and punishment got dished out then because it took some time to investigate. I see if it was regionals than ye make sense. I haven't really talked much about the actual event here mainly just that I didn't get why they couldn't talk. So if I understand right Misfits guys go to Quas and talk to him without talking to Liquid first, Quas either tells Liquid this or he finds out somehow. LIquid then goes to riot and files a complaint about people messing with his contracted players. Up till this point it's completely understandable and justifiable to me. Following that is where it gets a bit murky. Liquid then goes to Richard Lewis and tells him about this while giving him a statement or Lewis gets it leaked somehow and liquid goes to give his side of the story. The latter is a lot more understandable but I question how Lewis would get this info in the first place unless Liquid members leaked it to him. After this news piece goes up Liquid and one of his managers then go to social media and start a slander campaign against the Misfits owner, calling them unprofessional and effectively condemning them as a killer of esports with their behavior. That to me is where everything goes bad. That's not only unprofessional itself but also is completely against what it means to represent Team Liquid. They already went through the proper channels and now just have to wait for Riot to investigate and make a decision. Why are they going to social media while acting that way? I get that TL doesn't exist as it used to but do they really have to go out their way to completely shit on what TL used to mean? There is no reason for them to go on social media to do. Just wait for Riot ruling then see what to do. They are completely justifiable to go to Riot and file a complaint even though technically Riot doesn't control Misfits yet. What they did after leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not something I ever wanted to see from a TL member. I don't even see the benefit of the Curse merger honestly. So we have a LoL team now, what else? Halo and a terrible CSGO team?? Doesn't seem worth it to kill the integrity of the name.
He is also seems to takes this really personal judging from his tweets . hes says misfits owner of trying to poach Quas is "not business, its personal." its seems like he felt backstabbed by misfits owner . Were they friends or something?
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On May 17 2015 10:05 Chexx wrote:Liquid112 posted this on Reddit regarding the Quas acquisition Show nested quote +
I worked directly with GGLA on the Quas acquisition, this is not even close to the situation presented now. There was a substantial amount of money that was paid for the acquisition of Quas and it was handled professionally. This other organization, allegedly Misfits, directly interfered with contracts I have with my players by luring, soliciting and encouraging them to terminate their contracts. It's unethical behavior, but beyond that - there are legal rules regarding possible tortious interference of contracts - this isn't just about Riot rules.
Some former ggLA players are disagree, so I'm not sure how accurate Steve's comment is.
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On May 17 2015 22:03 reddishcarp048 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 19:29 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 08:25 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them? I don't know. If a player really wants off a team, he can bench himself. And if he wants to get on another team, the team's management should get involved. There is no reason to keep them out of the process unless there's something wrong going on. Players aren't the only entities that need to be protected. And iirc, CLG approached scarra/zion at NA regionals so it wasn't even pre-season 5. The fines and punishment got dished out then because it took some time to investigate. I see if it was regionals than ye make sense. I haven't really talked much about the actual event here mainly just that I didn't get why they couldn't talk. So if I understand right Misfits guys go to Quas and talk to him without talking to Liquid first, Quas either tells Liquid this or he finds out somehow. LIquid then goes to riot and files a complaint about people messing with his contracted players. Up till this point it's completely understandable and justifiable to me. Following that is where it gets a bit murky. Liquid then goes to Richard Lewis and tells him about this while giving him a statement or Lewis gets it leaked somehow and liquid goes to give his side of the story. The latter is a lot more understandable but I question how Lewis would get this info in the first place unless Liquid members leaked it to him. After this news piece goes up Liquid and one of his managers then go to social media and start a slander campaign against the Misfits owner, calling them unprofessional and effectively condemning them as a killer of esports with their behavior. That to me is where everything goes bad. That's not only unprofessional itself but also is completely against what it means to represent Team Liquid. They already went through the proper channels and now just have to wait for Riot to investigate and make a decision. Why are they going to social media while acting that way? I get that TL doesn't exist as it used to but do they really have to go out their way to completely shit on what TL used to mean? There is no reason for them to go on social media to do. Just wait for Riot ruling then see what to do. They are completely justifiable to go to Riot and file a complaint even though technically Riot doesn't control Misfits yet. What they did after leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not something I ever wanted to see from a TL member. I don't even see the benefit of the Curse merger honestly. So we have a LoL team now, what else? Halo and a terrible CSGO team?? Doesn't seem worth it to kill the integrity of the name. He is also seems to takes this really personal judging from his tweets . hes says misfits owner of trying to poach Quas is "not business, its personal." its seems like he felt backstabbed by misfits owner . Were they friends or something?
IIRC, Chris Badawi (Misfits owner) was one of the bidders for Gravity, thus establishing a relationship with Steve. Then later Steve helped him out with advice leading up to the creation of Misfits. So kind of a mentor/friend relationship in that regard.
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On May 18 2015 01:27 Saradin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2015 22:03 reddishcarp048 wrote:On May 17 2015 19:29 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 08:25 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 07:08 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 07:04 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:41 Numy wrote:On May 17 2015 06:33 JBright wrote:On May 17 2015 06:01 Numy wrote:
Yea I don't get it personally. If a team wants to talk to a player they have to ask the team first and if the team says no that's it? Seems a little dumb. I kind of get it mid season but if it's in the off periods it should be a "transfer window" where players/teams are free to shop around if that's what they want. It doesn't really make sense when Quas' contract ends in November. If they want Quas, they would have to buy out his contract so there's no point leaving out the team. I'm talking more about the order of things. How can a team know to buy out a contract if they can't talk to the player? That's the puzzling part. This isn't an attempt to poach a player from your opposition mid season, this is out of season talking to a player to see if they interested then I'm guessing if they are interested talk about buying out a contract. I don't get why it's the other way around. Doesn't make sense to me. The only logic I can't see if that it protects the team from teams offers better contracts and buyouts to players, this way a team can effectively stonewall overs from talking to a player regardless of the players wishes unless the team/player wants to suffer Riot judgement. All LCS players have their contract end date posted on lolesports so it's impossible for teams not to know them. Obviously a team is going to stonewall them if the player is still contracted...that's kinda the point. If it's pre-season 6 and misfits approached a player then sure that's ok. I'm not sure if I'm not getting my point across or you are just ignoring it. I'm saying a team can't possibly know if a player wants to be bought out unless they talk to said player so knowing date of contract end is rather pointless. Talking to a contracted player shouldn't be wrong in the off season. Most big sports have transfer windows where players/teams can shop around if they want even though they are contracted. That is what I'm saying. Being able to completely shut out a player under the whole term of the contract seems really terrible for the players. Anyway I just think it's highly odd that this period of time adheres to the anti-poaching rules. Actually now that I think about it CLG got in shit for poaching Zion/Scarra in pre-season 5 so it looks like there is no period of time that the anti-poaching isn't active. Means if someone is under contract you can't talk to them? I don't know. If a player really wants off a team, he can bench himself. And if he wants to get on another team, the team's management should get involved. There is no reason to keep them out of the process unless there's something wrong going on. Players aren't the only entities that need to be protected. And iirc, CLG approached scarra/zion at NA regionals so it wasn't even pre-season 5. The fines and punishment got dished out then because it took some time to investigate. I see if it was regionals than ye make sense. I haven't really talked much about the actual event here mainly just that I didn't get why they couldn't talk. So if I understand right Misfits guys go to Quas and talk to him without talking to Liquid first, Quas either tells Liquid this or he finds out somehow. LIquid then goes to riot and files a complaint about people messing with his contracted players. Up till this point it's completely understandable and justifiable to me. Following that is where it gets a bit murky. Liquid then goes to Richard Lewis and tells him about this while giving him a statement or Lewis gets it leaked somehow and liquid goes to give his side of the story. The latter is a lot more understandable but I question how Lewis would get this info in the first place unless Liquid members leaked it to him. After this news piece goes up Liquid and one of his managers then go to social media and start a slander campaign against the Misfits owner, calling them unprofessional and effectively condemning them as a killer of esports with their behavior. That to me is where everything goes bad. That's not only unprofessional itself but also is completely against what it means to represent Team Liquid. They already went through the proper channels and now just have to wait for Riot to investigate and make a decision. Why are they going to social media while acting that way? I get that TL doesn't exist as it used to but do they really have to go out their way to completely shit on what TL used to mean? There is no reason for them to go on social media to do. Just wait for Riot ruling then see what to do. They are completely justifiable to go to Riot and file a complaint even though technically Riot doesn't control Misfits yet. What they did after leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not something I ever wanted to see from a TL member. I don't even see the benefit of the Curse merger honestly. So we have a LoL team now, what else? Halo and a terrible CSGO team?? Doesn't seem worth it to kill the integrity of the name. He is also seems to takes this really personal judging from his tweets . hes says misfits owner of trying to poach Quas is "not business, its personal." its seems like he felt backstabbed by misfits owner . Were they friends or something? IIRC, Chris Badawi (Misfits owner) was one of the bidders for Gravity, thus establishing a relationship with Steve. Then later Steve helped him out with advice leading up to the creation of Misfits. So kind of a mentor/friend relationship in that regard.
This whole thing has seemed a bit awkward. I guess this is why Steve is so emotional over it considering they arent event a challenger team yet. If Misfits were a CS or LCS team I could understand Riot taking any sort of position, but at this point it seems seems like Steve is just seeking revenge and drama. And yeah, Quas would do wonders for TSM. I really hope Regi considers making an offer given how MSI went. LOL
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Can someone explain the actual fact pattern here? What actually was the sequence of events?
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Unfortunately there aren't any facts yet. We just have Liquid management on social media saying Misfits manager went behind their backs to encourage their player(s) to terminate contract and go to Misfits. That and an article by DailyDot saying liquid has filed a complaint to Riot but that looks like it came from Liquid as well.
If you want general facts around the situation then I guess there are those. Misfits is an amateur team not yet in the CS so do not fall under Riot's rules yet. Riot has rules saying teams in LCS can't talk to players directly without going through the teams. It also looks like the tampering/poaching rule only applies to LCS teams and nothing is mentioned in CS ruling about poaching/tampering. That's pretty much it. There are a bunch of aggressive tweets on Liquids side about the situation and bischu in regards to Quas leaving GGLA right at the start of CS but those are hardly facts.
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That is what I thought. How ridiculous.
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this is not newsworthy and if you think otherwise please stick to proper professionalism and cover all angles (assuming Misfits and Riot take a stance)
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On May 18 2015 04:31 Naphal wrote:
this is not newsworthy and if you think otherwise please stick to proper professionalism and cover all angles (assuming Misfits and Riot take a stance)
what?
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Bischu salty cause he couldn't get carried into LCS
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EPT
