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CLG Doublelift – Need for Change - Page 2

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Orange Strapon
Profile Joined February 2015
United States3 Posts
April 14 2015 07:20 GMT
#21
Thanks for the interview! Great read!
NA LCS: CLG, NACS: CLG Black, NACC: UBC, EU LCS: UOL, EUCS: Origen, LCK: CJ Entus, LPL: OMG, LMS: AHQ, GPL: ASF, CBLOL: Keyd Stars, OPL: CHF, LAN: Lyon, LAS: BEN, TCL: DP, SLTV SS: M5, LJL: 7h
Terrador
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands23 Posts
April 14 2015 08:49 GMT
#22
Good interview. Kinda feels like the management has not just dropped the ball, they completely lost it...
MMA | Squirtle | Mvp | MC | Polt | Naniwa | Puzzle | Genuis | Sase | Marineking
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
April 14 2015 09:58 GMT
#23
On April 14 2015 13:49 Amarok wrote:
I really feel like Doublelift more than anyone on CLG would benefit from leaving. He seems completely committed to the org, but his and CLGs performance has been waning the entire LCS era. He's generally been the least of CLG's problems, but he's been the dominant player on the team for so long that at some point you have to ask whether he's cut out for the leadership role CLG is built around. Where that's on him or due to Hotshot's inability to put the right components around him is irrelevant because if the problem was solvable it would have happened by now. Put him on a team with different personal and in-game dynamics and things might change.


I feel like doublelift is a player that thrives when he doesn't have responsibility and on CLG there's no one else that even tries to take responsibility so it's kind of shoved on to double. I'd really like him to go to another team and start doing well there. It'll be better for him and maybe force CLG to start taking league seriously. Double on H2K would be pretty sweet :>
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
April 14 2015 16:13 GMT
#24
Highlight of the interview for those that don't want to read all of it :
"Technically we've been really consistent at playoffs, because we just always lose"
moush
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4 Posts
April 14 2015 20:41 GMT
#25
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 14 2015 21:20 GMT
#26
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

Of course, it must be DL's fault for Aphromoo's and Link's drop in play in time for playoffs, and singlehandidly drafting his team's comps to lose in the most terrible way possible to TL.
liftlift > tsm
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
April 14 2015 21:39 GMT
#27
Also, he has said he might be part of the problem in other interviews
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
April 14 2015 22:00 GMT
#28
Sounds like Scarra is a terrible coach.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 23:15:41
April 14 2015 23:14 GMT
#29
On April 15 2015 06:39 RagequitBM wrote:
Also, he has said he might be part of the problem in other interviews


You can say a lot of things about Doublelift, but he's always struck me as something of a realist. Even his trashtalking/bignoting can be viewed as such when he was still a godly player.

I think at some point he's gotten into his own head about his role on CLG. He's said so many times he doesn't want to be the main focus on the team but a more supportive style of ADC is wasted on him. He's at his best when he's aggressive and CLG need that from the AD position. Look at how his attitude changed about Sivir and then compare it to Forgiven's current position. Forgiven scoffs when he talks about playing Sivir and says he'll never play it because he wants to have a bigger impact that just pressing R to support his team. When DL was the best ADC in the west he had the same attitude but not anymore. He's playing like Cop and he too good for that.

That's why I think he should go. Get his head into a different environment. Let him learn how things work in other teams. Get him confident and putting games on his back again.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
AlreadyHere
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada26 Posts
April 15 2015 01:39 GMT
#30
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

As far as the in game play is concerned he does not seem to think he is the problem and I am inclined to agree. With all of his team gettng solo killed, missing skillshots and making horrible decisions he held firm and did as much as he could. It is hard to look good when the rest of the team is under performing.

He did however acknowledge he needs to take a more active role outside the game if he wants to compete with the best teams. I think these playoffs pretty much removed any bit of leeway the management had in terms of decision making and if they are not able to support their team properly both roster and coaching wise he will leave.
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
April 15 2015 02:01 GMT
#31
On April 15 2015 10:39 AlreadyHere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 05:41 moush wrote:
Of course Double gave the most neutral responses possible and his ego prevented him from seeing himself as the problem.

As far as the in game play is concerned he does not seem to think he is the problem and I am inclined to agree. With all of his team gettng solo killed, missing skillshots and making horrible decisions he held firm and did as much as he could. It is hard to look good when the rest of the team is under performing.

He did however acknowledge he needs to take a more active role outside the game if he wants to compete with the best teams. I think these playoffs pretty much removed any bit of leeway the management had in terms of decision making and if they are not able to support their team properly both roster and coaching wise he will leave.


agreed 100%.

It didnt look to me like the games were at all his fault.

The current pro scene for League is still in the "whoever makes the least mistakes wins" rather than "whoever makes the bigger play".

I mean there are exceptions, but in MOST pro games, it comes down to minimizing the number of mistakes in order to achieve victory, because teams have gotten so good at punishing leads and leaning on the opposing team once they are ahead.

Aphro went from the god support.. to not even showing up for the playoffs. It seemed like he caught solo mentality of "just go in... o shit i died".

Their team fights were incredibly sloppy, like "were going..ok back..and now were going..shit shit go in!"

Xmithie took arguably the most op/broken champ in the current meta..and managed to make it look weak. He was never the carry jungle for CLG..but he was at least relevant.

I mean look at the SK vs UOL series. Game 5 in particular, Svenskaren had SK on his back ALL series, and was single handedly carrying from the jungle... but then they made 1 bad call, followed by 3 players all making bad decisions, and they lost.

Minimizing mistakes is the name of the game atm..not making plays. Svenskaren made play after play after play, and his team lost due to 3 mistakes in a row.

IDK, Doublelift in the series seemed to be fighting to be the consistent one, making sure he wasnt the one making mistakes for his opponents to capitalize on... he might not have been carrying, but he was arguably the most consistent player on his team for the series.

Zionspartan, Link, Aphro, and Xmithie all had a handful of mistakes/bad decisions every game, so I dont know how people consider Doublelift the problem with CLG, when he was the only one not giving away solo kills/diving into losing fights.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
April 15 2015 02:06 GMT
#32
I think if anyone is questioning Doublelift as being a problem in the team, it's that he is more veteran than any former player, and thus his influence/presence supersedes any former player coach, because doublelift probly played against them and was better at that time as well as now.

I'm not saying that Doublelift is the one who is making Scarra a passive coach, but put yourself in L1nk's shoes

two opinions: guy you've been on the same team with for two years, guy who has been playing just as far back as the coach has only his skills haven't dipped below player status

guy who is new to the team, same Experence level as Doublelift, only he wasn't ever as good as doublelift and isn't able to perform as a player anymore, unlike Doublelift.

and it's not just like Doublelift has to walk into the room and says I'm right guys this is what we should do. it can be subtle like, when they are talking about picks Doublelift can suggest plan A, team can agree on Scarra's plan B, when gameday arrives if things start to look or feel funny you start to get the grass is greener effect on Plan A, and then the thoughts from the middle paragraphs set in.

it's just a bad situation even if everyone means for the best.
Carrilord has arrived.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
April 15 2015 03:22 GMT
#33
I don't think DL was terrible this split, but he was certainly way below his previous form. Main problem was eating skillshots. So often CLG would try an aggressive siege with DL hitting the tower and he'd eat a bind/hook after sticking around for one shot too many. That said he was no worse than Turtle in that regard and he looked pretty good when CLG was on song. Probably 3rd NA ADC in the regular season behind Sneaky/Altec.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
moush
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4 Posts
April 15 2015 21:48 GMT
#34
Doublelift does not deserve any praise and hasn't deserved it for 2+ years. He pretty much has zero impact in his games recently, especially the playoffs.

I'm not sure if it's because he's just coasting along on his fame or what but it just doesn't seem like he has the same fire anymore.
NotMeEver
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
United States100 Posts
April 17 2015 07:01 GMT
#35
I think the change that also would've worked, other than doing that, would've been to get a coach.


Well, day-to-day we just talk to each other as players. Sometimes we'll talk to Scarra and sometimes he'll talk to us, and that's pretty much where it ends.


So, CLG replaced Monte, an admittedly part-time coach would couldn't always be with the team, with Scarra, apparently a part-time coach who didn't often interact with the team, but who also didn't have the analysis background that Monte did, nor the respect, I'm inferring, that comes with being older, rather than merely being a longtime contemporary.

Seems an odd coaching choice, in retrospect. I don't really see what Scarra has brought that Monte didn't as a remote coach. From how Monte has recalled it on Summoning Insight, it sounds like he was far more involved than Doublelift suggests Scarra has been. Obviously, we don't know everything, but... I don't really get it.
FBI Special Agent Francis York Morgan. Please, just call me York. That's what everyone calls me.
Mag1c
Profile Joined February 2015
Canada180 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-17 14:05:06
April 17 2015 14:04 GMT
#36
It's really hard to comment on different coaching styles, etc., when the info we have comes from a couple of interviews, not from actual observation or interaction with the coaches. I think Scarra deserves some benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'm sure coaching has a long way to go in the Western scene, before people understand and appreciate what coaches should actually be doing, and how.
Oracle's Elixir: LoL eSports analytics (http://oracleselixir.com)
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2396 Posts
April 17 2015 17:51 GMT
#37
I would definitely keep Scarra as an assistant coach or something since it seems he can manage egos, that's about it though. Add a head coach (not a part-timer pls) who's not afraid to have the final say, then you'll see things change (for better or worse, depends on coaching ability duh).
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
April 17 2015 18:17 GMT
#38
Doublelift is just a perpetually overrated player, which doesn't mean he's bad, but it does mean that people are expecting more from him than he can actually deliver on. Perhaps that can change with a coach who kicks his ass and forces him back into the greatness that he admittedly did have back in the day when he was a world-class adc. Regardless of whether Scarra is the issue, if DLift is as against his coaching style as he displayed here, I think HSGG would be hard-pressed to not go out and get a more active coach. He has his favorite adc to appease.
Hey! How you doin'?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
April 17 2015 23:37 GMT
#39
I am actually a little surprised about the move. Sure, CLG choked near the end; but as far as I can tell, CLG went from a team that almost got relegated to a team that performed fairly well for most of this split (until the very end). CLG had a game plan and demonstrated its strength in early game planning throughout the split.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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