EPTPro scene rumor mill - Page 107
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New Season - New Thread: You can find the new thread here http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/liquid-legends/497276-rumors-thread | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Skitter
United States899 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 09 2015 04:30 Numy wrote: Riot aren't happy with just lowering Western and Korean competition, they must head into China too. Lol Riot piss off. having a licensing body exercise unusual power isn't exclusively a riot thing in china. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 09 2015 08:18 Redox wrote: Erm isnt that exactly what we have? lol And you thinking the league games are meaningless does not make them worse practise. From all we can see LCS players care a lot about winning them. They are often destroyed morally if they lose them. Teams sometimes go down the drain if they dont win the first "meaningless" games of the season, or go on extreme highs after winning which leads to streaks. I think the only good argument for league play making players worse works exactly the other way around. It might be too much high pressure competition over too long of a time. Players can burn out before the actual climax of the season. Well I already gave some reasoning but let me expand. Literally all big team sports use leage play. In football for example you can see how teams in general suck at the start of the season and then improve after league play for a few weeks. The term "Spielrhythmus" (play rhythm) is used here in Germany. I also thought it is common sense that continuous and constant practise at whatever makes you improve. Playing Asian teams 5 times a year or whatever would not make western teams suddenly gain the same level as the Asians. You get that only by playing on a daily (soloQ and scrim) and weekly basis (league like LCS) with your opponents. Of course a single western team would improve the most if they did this daily play with Korean teams for example and on Korean soloQ, in the Korean league etc. But this would not happen with open tournaments either. Well maybe one team could do it, but at some point this one team would fall off and meanwhile the rest of the region as a whole withers. edit: I want to make clear that I am not in favor of Riot taking over LPL. Mainly because I believe that it will be quite the cultural clash. There is probably all kind of stuff going on that is at odds with Riot's ideas about competetive integrity and so on (just the idea of Riot enforcing poaching rules already makes me laugh). And I have a feeling the Chinese will not be happy about some westerners telling them what to do. This will only lead to all kinds of stupid drama. Gaming isn't team sports. I don't know why people try so hard to make them the same when they not. Effectively what Riot has done is create two isolated pockets of play that don't get any outside interaction. These two pockets of play are now the least relevant major regions in the world. I think there's only two real ways to go about thinking why this happened. Either the isolation, rules and formats helped create this or the player skill and infrastructure is so much worse that this happened. I don't buy the latter. In the East you have LMS/LPL/LCK all being able to practice together then bring what they learnt from other regions into their local play so local teams benefit from more diverse set of gameplay. This doesn't happened in EU/NA as they are completely isolated. Cross-regional play is extremely important for the improvement of players/teams as it allows them to not only be subjected to differing styles but also face opponents far stronger than them. Weaker teams learn through copying but they aren't ever subjected to anything other than the same teams they always play. You may scoff at this idea thinking that playing the same isolated bubble constantly should net you the same improvement but looking across the years of gaming that seems to only be the case when this bubble has a monopoly on the game and even then if a strong region emerges outside of the bubble it seems to only serve to make both regions stronger if they play each other. This lack of regional play is made even worse in that only the top 3 teams of each region ever get exposed to it and when it's over they don't even bring back what they learnt as there is no more LCS for months afterwards. As for the league being augmented with series play, it isn't. Why would you say it is? Teams generally get at most 2-3 shots at series play every few months. That's not going to help them learn how to adjust from playing 2 bo1s a week to playing a playoff bracket. Augmenting the league would be something like weekly cup matches. I mentioned examples of how EPL has multiple local and international cups that happen during the leagues length. These cups actually help even more since the local ones allow teams outside of the EPL to play which can often lead to them playing teams divisions higher than them. In league this could give Challenger or even teams not yet in challenger chances at playing LCS teams which could up their brand and help them improve. On September 09 2015 09:21 krndandaman wrote: I thought the main reason was killing off sister teams? Even if many star players left, I'm pretty sure Korea as a whole would be stronger if SKT/KT/KOO/etc. had an extra team they managed. I believe it was sister teams, age restrictions and reducing number of OGNs down to what we have today. edit: Just on a tangent I want to say how absolutely vital replays are for improvement. Not having a functioning official replay system in a game that's trying to be an esport is an absolutely massive travesty. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Effectively what Riot has done is create two isolated pockets of play that don't get any outside interaction. These two pockets of play are now the least relevant major regions in the world. I think there's only two real ways to go about thinking why this happened. Either the isolation, rules and formats helped create this or the player skill and infrastructure is so much worse that this happened. I don't buy the latter. Korea has not developed their lead with the help of other regions, they have developed it on their own. With their infrastucture, superior attitude towards esports and experience from bw. Just like they developed their leading role in bw pretty much in isolation, competing against each other. Idk what is hard to buy about Korea being better in terms of esports infrastructure than the west, I thought that was pretty much accepted as true. Actually I have never heard the notion of Korea becoming good because they could practise with China or GPL. And yes Korea also has more talent from soloQ. China has now pulled far ahead of EU/NA mostly by buying like 2/3 of the top Korean players and some coaches on top. Apart from this China should also be fundamentally stronger even without the Koreans simply because they have like 10? times the player numbers of NA or EU and they have tons of money to invest in their infrastructure. To not be better than EU/NA with these advantages they would have to severely fuck up. In the East you have LMS/LPL/LCK all being able to practice together then bring what they learnt from other regions into their local play so local teams benefit from more diverse set of gameplay. This doesn't happened in EU/NA as they are completely isolated. Of course China being able to practise with Koreans while NA/EU is not is also an advantage for them. This is simply a matter of geography though and has nothing to do with Riot. If the ping would allow it NA/EU teams would practise with Koreans of course. There is no complete isolation though. Top NA/EU teams are practising with Koreans right at this moment. And they take advantage of LCK/LPL VODs all season. Those influence EU/NA play alot. Augmenting the league would be something like weekly cup matches. I mentioned examples of how EPL has multiple local and international cups that happen during the leagues length. These cups actually help even more since the local ones allow teams outside of the EPL to play which can often lead to them playing teams divisions higher than them. If this was true you would have to see teams playing in those cups outperforming those that are not in it that year in league play. Often it is just the other way around though simply because the cups drain a lot of the teams resources and divert focus from league play. Which is why you often hear managers complaining to have to play all those games. They are still played because they are an additional source of income. EPL is good for one simple reason, buying foreign talent. Kinda like China in League but to an even much bigger extent. The development of local British talent did not profit from this development at all, they have even fallen farther behind than in the past. I believe it was sister teams, age restrictions and reducing number of OGNs down to what we have today. Yeah I am sure the majority of the top Korean players simply following the money and going to China has nothing to do with that. Lets not even mention that. :D | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
China was ahead for EU/NA even before buying KR so I'm not sure why you keep acting like them buying KR is what let them go ahead. The only time EU/NA were on even footing with them was also the only time EU/NA have been relevant on an international stage. Past that point CN has always been ahead. Now they merely ahead of KR as well. If it was just due to raw numbers than CN would be untouchable in other games as well which we know is not the case. Also EU would be a region at the forefront of the competition if it was just a numbers game. They are after all one of the biggest regions outside of CN. Watching vods of a team playing is not the same as playing against the team. Acting like that means there isn't isolation is rather silly. The same is said by top 3 teams going to practice for a few weeks before Worlds. I already mentioned how that doesn't bring back anything to the scene since there's no play after this mingling and it doesn't help the lower tier teams improve. Ideally as a lower tier team you want to play vs a top tier team from another region then study the replay of how they beat you a million times. Taking what they did, copying it and applying it to your own practice games against teams in your region. Merely watching a broadcast of how that top team beat another top team in their own region isn't as beneficial as one might think. It gives you a broad idea of what to do but the small details just aren't there and the fact that that other top team doesn't play like you changes a lot. Anyway this is honestly pointless. You think the LCS has done nothing but increase the level of play while I think the system is detrimental to the level of play(More so the isolation and lack of tournament play). Nothing we say will ever change the others opinion. No real reason to continue clogging up the thread. edit: Just wanted to say one thing quickly. Historically NA,EU and CIS have all kind of fed off each other to improve. We can see this influence pretty strong in Dota where a lot of the EU/NA teams were hybrid teams instead of purely from one region. Only recently has a pure NA team been doing well. Looking at League, TSM were arguably the most dominant they have been when they were still living in NYC practicing with both regions. The lack of this "feeding" off in league is truly depressing. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Anyway this is honestly pointless. You think the LCS has done nothing but increase the level of play while I think the system is detrimental to the level of play(More so the isolation and lack of tournament play). Nothing we say will ever change the others opinion. No real reason to continue clogging up the thread. Well you should not have made a bunch of strawmen points then where you "countered" things I didnt say in the first place. Quoting is always better for that reason. But oh well although it is enticing for the sake of this thread I will let it rest. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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neulin
Lithuania45 Posts
I wonder why brokenshard deleted this... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fnttU45MGgoJ:https://twitter.com/BrokenshardEUW/status/625395324652105728 &cd=1&hl=lt&ct=clnk&gl=lt | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Wonder why this Alicus guy thinks it is his business to leak other teams' stuff though. | ||
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EsanLOL
479 Posts
Either way, glad Trashy gets another shot at LCS. He wasn't without his own issues, but I felt there was only so much he could do in that NME team as a jungler. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
If you put Trashy there, it becomes dangerously close to NME in powerplay points and as we have already witnessed, toplane/support are able to drag team down enough to get relegated even in weakest region. | ||
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EsanLOL
479 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=cwairwaksv1 Airwaks has been playing R5s with sebekx, exork, GoB and promiseQ http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=overpowv1 Overpow is back to mid with delord/litowy/arquel/nzq | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
We've already heard stuff like "I won't go to S4" and so on. Baixing, get Uzi and put on Starhorn in LSPL, daily laughter will be great. But probs VG is most possible right now, if they want to spend Hao's transfer money. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Except that things never seem to go well with Uzi: inb4 VG trainwreck. Also, Dandy still top so there's that. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On September 11 2015 23:13 DarkCore wrote: Except that things never seem to go well with Uzi: inb4 VG trainwreck. Also, Dandy still top so there's that. Huh? Two straight worlds finals is "not going well"? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On September 12 2015 08:12 Amarok wrote: Huh? Two straight worlds finals is "not going well"? Easy bracket | ||
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