• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:58
CET 11:58
KST 19:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview3RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion3Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 104
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1087 users

[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 71

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 Next
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 15 2014 21:21 GMT
#1401
On July 16 2014 06:15 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:09 Hagen0 wrote:
Reading these threads I always get the impression that LoL champion balance is incredibly fickle. Minor nerfs seem to render powerful champions unplayable and slight itemization changes make previously rarely used champions into first picks. Is my impression wrong?

People over react, the league community is especially bad for it.

-2 damage could kill a champion permanently in their eyes.
Always wait till a while after patch notes and see what the pros/koreans are doing before making any sort of "hurr this champion is dead" call

There's is a general sense of overreaction, but there has been a proven track record or range nerfs being incredibly drastic, Kennen and Ryze for example (before they reverted the Q nerf half way)
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
July 15 2014 21:22 GMT
#1402
On July 16 2014 06:03 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I have to say though. This new Lucian may be even more broken.

An 2x auto after a spell reduces his E cooldown by 4 seconds. With some CDR he will be Eing indefinitely.

How much CDR can you expect to build? Are you going to go Frozen Fist Lucian?
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Hagen0
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany765 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 21:24:37
July 15 2014 21:23 GMT
#1403
This is an general impression. I was not refering to the specific discussion prior to it. On of the examples I had in mind were indeed the changes to attack range on some champions (eg. Ryze). Maybe I'm underestimating those.
ZataN
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand414 Posts
July 15 2014 21:24 GMT
#1404
On July 16 2014 06:09 Hagen0 wrote:
Reading these threads I always get the impression that LoL champion balance is incredibly fickle. Minor nerfs seem to render powerful champions unplayable and slight itemization changes make previously rarely used champions into first picks. Is my impression wrong?


TL LoL is always wrong about how nerfs/buffs will affect champions. Take anything here with a grain of salt.
CJ BABY | FAKER > PAWN BELIEVE IT
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22050 Posts
July 15 2014 21:24 GMT
#1405
As others have said yes a lot of nerfs are often blown out of perprotion but thats ratio's and base damage changes. A range nerf on an adc is a HUGE change. Their range is the only thing that keeps them alive so anything that forces a squishy to play closer to the fight is a major change.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
July 15 2014 21:25 GMT
#1406
Range and Basic Attack Speed are the heaviest nerfs you can put on an ADC. AAs ranges in general are strong nerf/buff because it affects how safely you can harass and farm and even 25-50 is a big difference.

25-50 damage on a large cooldown spell by comparison is a lot more negligible.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 21:29:17
July 15 2014 21:26 GMT
#1407
On July 16 2014 06:22 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:03 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I have to say though. This new Lucian may be even more broken.

An 2x auto after a spell reduces his E cooldown by 4 seconds. With some CDR he will be Eing indefinitely.

How much CDR can you expect to build? Are you going to go Frozen Fist Lucian?


Well, it might require a specific rune page for it, like go AD quint/AD red/armor yellow/flat CDR blues (because who needs MR), go Reaver + CDR boots, with 4 points in the cooldown mastery, should get you close to the 40% CDR, and after those two items you can still get Triforce. Though if we also want Manamune in there then you'd need to buy it early and probably need to get Manamune around the time you get LW.

I'd also like to say that the last time they did a range nerf, it was to Ryze, who went from seeing massive amounts of competitive play in the s3 assassin meta, to 0 play. It took a 25 range buff (which is what TL LoL had said to do in the first place) to make him be relevant on the competitive stage again.

Also, inb4 Darkness.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 15 2014 21:30 GMT
#1408
at least the Lucian skin was out for about a month already ::LOLTINFOIL:::
Carrilord has arrived.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 15 2014 21:31 GMT
#1409
To be fair with regards to kennen he became top priority to the point of being nerfed again just over his ult losing its cost when maknoon "got curious"
Glorious SEA doto
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 15 2014 21:31 GMT
#1410
I for one welcome our black olaf.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 21:34:43
July 15 2014 21:33 GMT
#1411
I talked about this at the time but I guess I need to explain it again, that was a huge buff, previously in order to get into position(without flashing), activate ult and w you needed to clip the champion with E for the energy refund, the change to his ult's energy cost allowed him to not do just that but to open up with all 4 skills, thus allowing you to stun 1 person instantaneously even in lvl1 ult

it was not the small buff people keep trying to pretend it was, citing curiosity is just MakNooN being MakNooN.
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35165 Posts
July 15 2014 21:33 GMT
#1412
Olaf changes and more:
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/07/715-pbe-update.html
Disengaged
Profile Joined July 2010
United States6994 Posts
July 15 2014 21:37 GMT
#1413
Those new mecha skins do not interest me at all lol

The splash arts look completely different to the actual ingame model.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
July 15 2014 21:38 GMT
#1414
On July 16 2014 06:31 Fusilero wrote:
To be fair with regards to kennen he became top priority to the point of being nerfed again just over his ult losing its cost when maknoon "got curious"

Well had that put that buff in place when they nerfed his AA range he probably would have stayed a viable pick. but at the time that 25 AA range meant everything for him in the Top lane.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
July 15 2014 21:39 GMT
#1415
On July 16 2014 06:24 ZataN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:09 Hagen0 wrote:
Reading these threads I always get the impression that LoL champion balance is incredibly fickle. Minor nerfs seem to render powerful champions unplayable and slight itemization changes make previously rarely used champions into first picks. Is my impression wrong?


TL LoL is always wrong about how nerfs/buffs will affect champions. Take anything here with a grain of salt.

I think i learned that when they changed Rivens Q the last time and everyone was screaming she was nerfed into oblivion and she'd never be used again, then someone posted math that proved she was stronger up to like 400 ad or something at all points of the game lolol.

But for real dont take most nerfs seriously, if a nerf is like really really huge then yeah id take it like "wow this champion was destroyed" like -50 damage on a skill or something. Or Kassadins shield being lowered after they buffed it(totally nerfed him amirite lolol)
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
July 15 2014 21:39 GMT
#1416
On July 16 2014 06:38 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:31 Fusilero wrote:
To be fair with regards to kennen he became top priority to the point of being nerfed again just over his ult losing its cost when maknoon "got curious"

Well had that put that buff in place when they nerfed his AA range he probably would have stayed a viable pick. but at the time that 25 AA range meant everything for him in the Top lane.

Kennen top lane is irrelevant, I'm still salty about the death of ADC kennen. Pls come back to LCS and teach me the way jimbz.
Glorious SEA doto
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 15 2014 21:42 GMT
#1417
On July 16 2014 06:22 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:03 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I have to say though. This new Lucian may be even more broken.

An 2x auto after a spell reduces his E cooldown by 4 seconds. With some CDR he will be Eing indefinitely.

How much CDR can you expect to build? Are you going to go Frozen Fist Lucian?


Build CDR boots plus scaling CDR blues will net you 30% at level 18.

Get an elixer, ghost blade, or something else to complete the build.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 15 2014 21:45 GMT
#1418
Sounds pretty tryhard compared to locking in Kog'maw
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35165 Posts
July 15 2014 21:48 GMT
#1419
On July 16 2014 06:42 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:22 xes wrote:
On July 16 2014 06:03 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I have to say though. This new Lucian may be even more broken.

An 2x auto after a spell reduces his E cooldown by 4 seconds. With some CDR he will be Eing indefinitely.

How much CDR can you expect to build? Are you going to go Frozen Fist Lucian?


Build CDR boots plus scaling CDR blues will net you 30% at level 18.

Get an elixer, ghost blade, or something else to complete the build.

Meh, at this point you might as well build Zephyr.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
July 15 2014 21:48 GMT
#1420
On July 16 2014 06:42 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2014 06:22 xes wrote:
On July 16 2014 06:03 Sufficiency wrote:
OK I have to say though. This new Lucian may be even more broken.

An 2x auto after a spell reduces his E cooldown by 4 seconds. With some CDR he will be Eing indefinitely.

How much CDR can you expect to build? Are you going to go Frozen Fist Lucian?


Build CDR boots plus scaling CDR blues will net you 30% at level 18.

Get an elixer, ghost blade, or something else to complete the build.

I dunno I feel like not running the MR/L blues means mid is going to kill you by looking at you later on/if they even touch you lol. Or if the other laner does a decent amount of magic damage(tristana)
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 1
Reynor vs MaruLIVE!
WardiTV2090
PiGStarcraft829
IndyStarCraft 374
BRAT_OK 283
3DClanTV 156
EnkiAlexander 52
IntoTheiNu 20
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft829
mouzHeroMarine 393
IndyStarCraft 374
BRAT_OK 283
MindelVK 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5589
Rain 2259
BeSt 418
firebathero 175
Hyun 141
Last 133
Rush 123
ZerO 119
Leta 114
Mong 113
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 110
Dewaltoss 103
EffOrt 98
Killer 96
Pusan 82
Barracks 69
Shuttle 56
Bonyth 48
ToSsGirL 41
Sexy 41
Nal_rA 40
soO 38
Mind 37
910 36
GoRush 24
Free 16
JulyZerg 14
Bale 6
SilentControl 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe409
NeuroSwarm105
League of Legends
JimRising 460
C9.Mang0449
Other Games
summit1g11081
singsing1366
Happy342
Sick260
Fuzer 142
Livibee70
Pyrionflax43
ZerO(Twitch)11
zeus3
B2W.Neo1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2154
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH143
• StrangeGG 28
• iHatsuTV 3
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 19
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1464
• Stunt454
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 2m
AI Arena Tournament
9h 2m
BSL 21
9h 2m
Mihu vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs Sziky
Bonyth vs DuGu
XuanXuan vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs eOnzErG
All-Star Invitational
15h 17m
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 2m
OSC
1d 1h
BSL 21
1d 9h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.