[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…

On June 25 2014 05:37 PrinceXizor wrote:
ghostblade is a very strong 1 item timing on a ranged character. if you can do something on that first item timing its worth it.

On June 25 2014 05:49 Amui wrote:

Eh, korean draven's have been doing BT>ghostblade>LW for a while(previous patches). ghostblade by itself doesn't grant enough AD to really punish people with spells, despite the arpen while the active is down. While it's up it's amazing though.

On June 25 2014 05:51 PrinceXizor wrote:

thats the point, when you finish the ghostblade you should be able to win a fight right off of the actives ability and take a tower/dragon off the the advantage. if you aren't in a position to do that due to picks or lanes then its probably not good for that first item.

On June 25 2014 06:19 Alaric wrote:
I read someone say awhile ago that Irelia is one of Fiora's worst match-ups, how true is that?
I had TP and he had Ignite, and I still won a fight level 3 when he wanted a quick auto to harass me, I stunned him with minion aggro but despite eating his riposte and not having my stun up for his E steroid, I won that hard (like I had half health to his under 100, forced his flash to stay alive; he didn't ignite but had I had one that was fb). Feels weird since I'm running MS quints and 9-21, he had lifesteal quints and 21-9.

He got an assist after Shyvana dived me but I was still ~15cs ahead so no biggy.
Later he very barely killed me in a 1v1 because my Q screwed up (really need to press the "champ only" key when casting it, it seems to prioritise weirdly when champs and minions are stacked), after I lost some health and he had the creep wave advantage thanks to Shyvana putting a tent since she almost died. I'd have thought even with his ignite it'd be closer since I read Irelia was much stronger).

Went Warden's Mail and then because of Shyvana interference and my inability to kill Fiora (E then an auto or Q to trigger the MS buff is good enough to I can't catch her and without W on I don't have the damage to finish her off before she reaches tower even with the E slow) despite putting her under 200 HP (I'm sure I could have dived, but QWE is a lot of mana for Irelia early on, and she hit 6 from the first minion to reach her tower next time I had the opportunity; Riposte means I can't just QW her and hope it'll be enough), I had very awkward back timings. She was maxing E first judging from her AD but between that and runes it was enough that before Phage it was awkward trading with her without committing. Went Warden's -> Zerkers -> Sheen -> Phage -> Triforce, with a big gap before Sheen and then before Phage, maybe that's why since she always spent a bunch on little components (Hydra rush means 2 long swords + pickaxe + upgrade to vamp are all small increments making it easy to spend).

Maybe I should have ignored zerkers in favor of Phage -> Sheen instead.

On June 25 2014 06:21 Capped wrote:


Should, Probably, never change PX.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 25 2014 05:24 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't think you included armor pen in the gold efficiency calculation.
Ignoring gold efficiency for a second, armor pen is really strong. It's effect is multiplicative on all your AD so if you have 100 AD, but your opponent's armor is 50, then ghostblade lowers that to 30. So you do 15% more damage with all your autos and your spells with AD ratios are a bit more than 15% stronger. The equivalent AD for autos would be 115 AD.

Back in S2 I remember some people cheesing with brutalizer first bot lane. Armor pen marks were more powerful back then. And the offense tree had a flat armor penetration I think. In addition brutalizer gave 15 armor pen, not 10. I think it was literally possible to have your lane opponent at 0 armor in bot lane if they didn't get armor yellows. A lot of people these days don't seem to have armor yellows.

But yeah, ghostblade sucks when you can't make use of the active eg. in little pokes.

Also, the wiki says ghostblade passively provides 2147 gold worth of stats. Not 1830. (not counting armor pen).

On June 25 2014 06:38 PrinceXizor wrote:

i won't i'll continue to say reasonable things supported by my own play, and you guys will continue to dismiss it because you refuse anythign i say outright.

On June 25 2014 07:03 cLutZ wrote:
You literally said thresh is a pubstomp champion yesterday.

On June 25 2014 07:30 Alaric wrote:
Is it me or are super minions stopping before (like, the wave before) the inhibitor respawns now? It's been several times where I noticed a wave without super minion when I hear the announcement that the inhibitor will respawn soon. I think it often had a siege minion in it but I couldn't swear that it's always the case.

On June 25 2014 06:51 Goumindong wrote:


No. I didn't include the pen(I mentioned that though). I also didn't include the CDR, because CDR isn't a particularly valuable stat to someone who auto attacks a lot*.

I mean, basically, suppose for a second that you come back to lane with a Brutalizer, 25 AD, 10% CDR, and 10 armor pen for 1337 gold. And the enemy comes back to lane with a Pickaxe and a Cloth Armor. 25 AD, 15 armor, 1175 gold. They're ahead and have 150 gold worth of pots to boot. OK this doesn't quite work because AD's don't have anything to build the CA into so that the tradeoff is an optimal damage not comparative damage calculation(and nor do supports for that matter) and because you might not get to trade with the enemy AD (rather in a fight where you have to attack the support first) but it should exemplify the relative power of the armor pen. Ghostblade has 1830 gold worth of attack damage stats(minus the pen) when its active isn't up and the amount of pen is entirely negated by an item which costs less than the price differential between the base stats and the Ghostblade.

This makes ghostblade really good if you can make use of the active but not every champion has ability sets which lend to using the active well. Cait doesn't, Ashe doesn't, Vayne doesn't, Draven doesn't, Sivir doesn't, Corki doesn't, Ezreal might. This means that there absolutely are reasons to not buy Ghostblade on AD carries. Its true that its easier to use the active early (since you're more likely to be in a short chasing/kiting skirmish) and you can use that to take objectives. But again, its not a blanket "AD's have no reason to avoid this item". AD's do have reason to avoid the item, namely its poor slot and gold efficiency without its active.

Before the patch the Ghostblade active was still 4 seconds for ranged champions. Its not like extending the active out to 6 seconds for ranged champions suddenly changed the nature of the item so much that it becomes a must buy. Nor should the reduction in power of BT do the same thing (partially because BotRK got buffed)

*E.G. Suppose you're MF (who gets a lot out of CDR because of her Q being on a 3 second cooldown at rank 5). At level 6 you get about .8 attacks/second from base scaling and masteries. This about 4 attacks in 5 seconds(Q CD with no CDR), or 3.6 attacks in 4.5 seconds (Q CD with 10% CDR). So 10% CDR is worth about [5 +.085 AD(first hit) / 10 +.1 AD(second hit)] damage every 5 seconds (I.E Q does 10% more DPS). Which is worth like 2-3 attack damage over the duration.

On June 25 2014 07:07 PrinceXizor wrote:

and he is. he's significantly stronger vs people who are uncoordinated than those who are. you can get out of control with him far better outside of 5v5 play than you do in it.

On June 25 2014 07:07 PrinceXizor wrote:

and he is. he's significantly stronger vs people who are uncoordinated than those who are. you can get out of control with him far better outside of 5v5 play than you do in it.

On June 25 2014 00:40 asymptotech wrote:


No it isn't? (Feel free to show me otherwise; I'm absolutely open to being wrong, but I've never seen a way to see my opponents active masteries in game.)

And it still goes back to the *only* thing this changes is teams now don't need someone to type [ot][rb]. Everything else being provided is already provided - just in a terrible fashion.

On June 25 2014 08:13 GolemMadness wrote:


Press tab, hover over your opponent's summoner spell, it shows you the cooldown (including summoner's insight/alacrity). You don't even need to memorise the 5 minutes like you do with buffs.

http://i.imgur.com/Fd2M9Qy.jpg

On June 25 2014 08:13 GolemMadness wrote:


Press tab, hover over your opponent's summoner spell, it shows you the cooldown (including summoner's insight/alacrity). You don't even need to memorise the 5 minutes like you do with buffs.

http://i.imgur.com/Fd2M9Qy.jpg