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[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…

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PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 15:50:59
June 23 2014 15:49 GMT
#921
On June 24 2014 00:14 Thermia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 23:46 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:38 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2014 22:41 Uldridge wrote:
Thresh is fine where he is. He only gets tanky if, and granted that does happen alot because he's Thresh, gets ahead (just like Leona btw)
But in pro play, where it can be alot more even for a longer time, he's just as squishy as any support and has to play that more with consideration because if he goes in or does something out of position he just gets blown up.
I think Sona has a really good kit aswell, she gives perma passive stats to her team, can give a strong movement speed slow or damage reduction, great aoe stun. Ofcourse it's less obvious than what a Thresh does, but that doesn't mean it can't be as impactful.

Well, I mean, if YOU say he is fine, I'm sold. I'll just forget the last 12 months of competitive play, with a special emphasis on forgetting ogn spring and masters.

shouldn't that just mean that other supports should be brought to his level and not he get nerfed so the next OP takes over in his stead.


Clearly you haven't been paying attention to what riot does with every single "OP" champ.

just because riot does it, doesn't make it the best solution
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 15:55:51
June 23 2014 15:50 GMT
#922
I still love the idea that someone posted where anyone can grab the lantern lol. It's good counterplay and it's not like grabbing it is a good idea in all situations (as an enemy)

@PX nobody is refuting that a more incremental policy to balance would be good but that is just so far from reality at this point

On June 24 2014 00:47 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2014 00:14 Thermia wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:46 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:38 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2014 22:41 Uldridge wrote:
Thresh is fine where he is. He only gets tanky if, and granted that does happen alot because he's Thresh, gets ahead (just like Leona btw)
But in pro play, where it can be alot more even for a longer time, he's just as squishy as any support and has to play that more with consideration because if he goes in or does something out of position he just gets blown up.
I think Sona has a really good kit aswell, she gives perma passive stats to her team, can give a strong movement speed slow or damage reduction, great aoe stun. Ofcourse it's less obvious than what a Thresh does, but that doesn't mean it can't be as impactful.

Well, I mean, if YOU say he is fine, I'm sold. I'll just forget the last 12 months of competitive play, with a special emphasis on forgetting ogn spring and masters.

shouldn't that just mean that other supports should be brought to his level and not he get nerfed so the next OP takes over in his stead.


Clearly you haven't been paying attention to what riot does with every single "OP" champ.

Every champ in general. I think so many champs have been nerfed that the old champions that used to be weak are now strong.


Ziggs in a nutshell, like yea he got buffs but both were to minion damage and one even got reverted, and then his AA passive got nerfed on top of that, all the top assassins getting hit at once was a far bigger buff to Ziggs than his actual buffs.
Carrilord has arrived.
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 23 2014 16:03 GMT
#923
if enemy heros can grab the lantern I would expect some next level safeguard lantern insec kicks
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
June 23 2014 16:04 GMT
#924
On June 24 2014 01:03 Nos- wrote:
if enemy heros can grab the lantern I would expect some next level safeguard lantern insec kicks


but that would be cool right?
Carrilord has arrived.
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 23 2014 16:36 GMT
#925
It would but I doubt Riot would put that in the game for the same reason something like force stick will never make it into the game.
Bronze player stuck in platinum
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 23 2014 16:49 GMT
#926
On June 24 2014 00:50 Slusher wrote:
I still love the idea that someone posted where anyone can grab the lantern lol. It's good counterplay and it's not like grabbing it is a good idea in all situations (as an enemy)

@PX nobody is refuting that a more incremental policy to balance would be good but that is just so far from reality at this point

Show nested quote +
On June 24 2014 00:47 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 24 2014 00:14 Thermia wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:46 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:38 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2014 22:41 Uldridge wrote:
Thresh is fine where he is. He only gets tanky if, and granted that does happen alot because he's Thresh, gets ahead (just like Leona btw)
But in pro play, where it can be alot more even for a longer time, he's just as squishy as any support and has to play that more with consideration because if he goes in or does something out of position he just gets blown up.
I think Sona has a really good kit aswell, she gives perma passive stats to her team, can give a strong movement speed slow or damage reduction, great aoe stun. Ofcourse it's less obvious than what a Thresh does, but that doesn't mean it can't be as impactful.

Well, I mean, if YOU say he is fine, I'm sold. I'll just forget the last 12 months of competitive play, with a special emphasis on forgetting ogn spring and masters.

shouldn't that just mean that other supports should be brought to his level and not he get nerfed so the next OP takes over in his stead.


Clearly you haven't been paying attention to what riot does with every single "OP" champ.

Every champ in general. I think so many champs have been nerfed that the old champions that used to be weak are now strong.


Ziggs in a nutshell, like yea he got buffs but both were to minion damage and one even got reverted, and then his AA passive got nerfed on top of that, all the top assassins getting hit at once was a far bigger buff to Ziggs than his actual buffs.

its not reality no, but that doesn't mean people should be calling for more of the same. people should be asking for the solution not a bandaid.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
June 23 2014 16:50 GMT
#927
Any brazilian tl leaguers out there? I think it'd be cool to win a game on every continent and im in brasil for another week or so :-D
Hey! Listen!
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
June 23 2014 16:51 GMT
#928
On June 24 2014 01:50 Navi wrote:
Any brazilian tl leaguers out there? I think it'd be cool to win a game on every continent and im in brasil for another week or so :-D

mordekaiser es only champion en brasil
hue hue hue hue hue hue hue hue hue hue
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 23 2014 17:15 GMT
#929
--- Nuked ---
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 23 2014 17:24 GMT
#930
On June 24 2014 00:50 Slusher wrote:
I still love the idea that someone posted where anyone can grab the lantern lol. It's good counterplay and it's not like grabbing it is a good idea in all situations (as an enemy)

@PX nobody is refuting that a more incremental policy to balance would be good but that is just so far from reality at this point

Show nested quote +
On June 24 2014 00:47 obesechicken13 wrote:
On June 24 2014 00:14 Thermia wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:46 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 23 2014 23:38 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2014 22:41 Uldridge wrote:
Thresh is fine where he is. He only gets tanky if, and granted that does happen alot because he's Thresh, gets ahead (just like Leona btw)
But in pro play, where it can be alot more even for a longer time, he's just as squishy as any support and has to play that more with consideration because if he goes in or does something out of position he just gets blown up.
I think Sona has a really good kit aswell, she gives perma passive stats to her team, can give a strong movement speed slow or damage reduction, great aoe stun. Ofcourse it's less obvious than what a Thresh does, but that doesn't mean it can't be as impactful.

Well, I mean, if YOU say he is fine, I'm sold. I'll just forget the last 12 months of competitive play, with a special emphasis on forgetting ogn spring and masters.

shouldn't that just mean that other supports should be brought to his level and not he get nerfed so the next OP takes over in his stead.


Clearly you haven't been paying attention to what riot does with every single "OP" champ.

Every champ in general. I think so many champs have been nerfed that the old champions that used to be weak are now strong.


Ziggs in a nutshell, like yea he got buffs but both were to minion damage and one even got reverted, and then his AA passive got nerfed on top of that, all the top assassins getting hit at once was a far bigger buff to Ziggs than his actual buffs.

Aww, thanks, glad you like my thresh lantern idea. Realistically though, they just need to make it so he gets crushed in poke wars by all the ranged supports, and crushed in all ins by the aggro melee supports.

Also they really should make a judgement call about which support champions should be standard, and which should be niche. To me, at least, it seems difficult to have a well rounded support cast when champions like thresh, braum, or leona are considered standard, given that they also occupy niche. Nami is up and coming, which is probably healthier, in theory, because she is a generalist, which means other supports can fill niches for comps that need them, but having with defined drawbacks.
Freeeeeeedom
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 23 2014 17:50 GMT
#931
But thresh does lose to most ranged supports.The real problem is with lantern it is really hard to not die to junglers.
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
June 23 2014 18:00 GMT
#932
Just make it so that when he throws out lantern his soul bonuses goes away until lantern flies back to him.

He keeps soul in there right?
Fan of the Jangbanger
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
June 23 2014 18:04 GMT
#933
I think for ziggs it was not just about assassins getting nerfed but also him being a bit underrated before buffs/nerfs, altho i have to agree that less assassins in the middle lane does mean an easier time in the early game
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 23 2014 18:16 GMT
#934
On June 24 2014 03:00 O-ops wrote:
Just make it so that when he throws out lantern his soul bonuses goes away until lantern flies back to him.

He keeps soul in there right?

or put some wards/have your jungler put wards in the lantern gank spots in the opposing jungle. if you still die to something you see coming, then you probably earned that death.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
June 23 2014 18:21 GMT
#935
You pretty much need to skit around their tower's range to drop a ward in their tribrush if they're purple side (can't from the river bush iirc), and if you just try to drop it behind their tower well... it's going to be in detection range and useless anyway. You need to shove pretty hard to place wards at this spot. Same if they're blue side, you have to ward not only the tribrush but also the golems bush if you wat to avoid any lantern ganks.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 23 2014 18:23 GMT
#936
On June 24 2014 03:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2014 03:00 O-ops wrote:
Just make it so that when he throws out lantern his soul bonuses goes away until lantern flies back to him.

He keeps soul in there right?

or put some wards/have your jungler put wards in the lantern gank spots in the opposing jungle. if you still die to something you see coming, then you probably earned that death.

Ya so easy.Not like thresh buys red trinket at first back with sighstone.Oh wait
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
June 23 2014 18:25 GMT
#937
don't thresh lanterns mostly facilitate lane ganks though?...
Bronze player stuck in platinum
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 23 2014 18:32 GMT
#938
On June 24 2014 03:25 Nos- wrote:
don't thresh lanterns mostly facilitate lane ganks though?...

They also shut down ganks that don't lock down thresh first, a champion that is actually pretty tanky with good self peel, so that is an unattractive choice.
Freeeeeeedom
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 18:58:44
June 23 2014 18:57 GMT
#939
On June 24 2014 03:23 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2014 03:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
On June 24 2014 03:00 O-ops wrote:
Just make it so that when he throws out lantern his soul bonuses goes away until lantern flies back to him.

He keeps soul in there right?

or put some wards/have your jungler put wards in the lantern gank spots in the opposing jungle. if you still die to something you see coming, then you probably earned that death.

Ya so easy.Not like thresh buys red trinket at first back with sighstone.Oh wait

you can puta ward in between the towers on bot lane for either side and see all lane ganks coming, its easy to do and often times the ward isn't even seen aka when its placed right. if you are against a thresh pre-emptively guessing that ward spot then you just play out of range of that and ward the closest bush to their tower and know its not getting dewarded. and then there are the jugnle lantern spots on bot lane, where purple can wrangle a guy from across the cliff and blue can bring a guy from the tri bush area. both are easily warded as well. there is no way thresh can remove every ward without jungler scanner help, which he has to be present for.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
June 23 2014 19:05 GMT
#940
How do you build tf nowadays ?
I'm just going lb zhonya void dfg raba, is there something better (graal start ?)
Zest fanboy.
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