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On May 24 2014 07:17 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 06:37 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 06:12 arb wrote:On May 24 2014 06:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 05:15 TheYango wrote:
Nobody bought Tiamat at the time because it was the old Tiamat that had the tiny AoE and everyone thought it was terrible. Rageblade+Ghostblade Kayle was enough of a thing for Riot to nerf that interaction.
Kayle also got remade like twice since then. I couldn't remember if that change happened before or after people started experimenting with tiamat before it got changed. there was like a 2 weak period you could see people trying tiamat on everyone that could use it because it was cost efficient before its splash came into effect. what no.. cost efficient with a bunch of stats no one needed like health regen and mana regen literally no one got tiamat except for trolls before they remade it tiamat was 50 ad for 2070 gold with 15 hp/5 and 5 mp/5 tacked on. that's only slightly less cost efficient for damage than long swords 3 hp/second and 1 mana/second is useful for laning. this was the same time period everyone was getting philo stones because of how good the regen was in lane, otherwise they'd be grabbing the other gold gain items. it was quite good for laning. but it was dead ended and not slot efficient and the splash didn't accelerate farm enough to justify it in a game that was based around snowballing your gold lead as much as you can. especially since the end game items were all more cost efficient than almost every dead end item. why wouldn't you just get a bf at that point for like 1600
There was a 2 week period where a bunch of people were grabbing tiamat for a bunch of champions in solo queue. iirc the most successful ones with it were poppy trundle shyvana and talon. mostly because it splashed with bonus damage from their spells and talon because the regen was useful and it let him continue to clear with 1 rake. it fell off really quickly when people realized they still weren't winning any more games because of it.
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imoperator and princexizor for life
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... Yango put a quote indicating that the change was made very, very early. Then you say "I can't remember if that was before or after the change" and then you quote Talon as being one of the champion on who it was bought, when he came out way later than that.
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Old Tiamat saw some use with Shyvana because her dragon form Q would splash on all units and then all the units splashed on would splash because of Tiamat
So if you fought her when she ulted in a creepwave you took more damage from splash than you did from her Q
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On May 24 2014 07:18 Slusher wrote:
not really sure why they are nerfing base and scaling damage on the LeBlanc changes, pretty sure half base damage is enough.
It seems pretty clear that they are confused why she is so strong. Much like Yasuo and Thresh, I imagine whenever they playtest nerfs in the internal scrims the nerfed version is just utterly terrible, and Phreak just trucks Morello's Yasuo with Syndra or something.
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On May 24 2014 07:35 Alaric wrote:
... Yango put a quote indicating that the change was made very, very early. Then you say "I can't remember if that was before or after the change" and then you quote Talon as being one of the champion on who it was bought, when he came out way later than that.
yeah i couldn't remember where the change occurred, and i don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of patch dates. my bad i guess?
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V1.0.0.106 is when Trundle came out, late 2010. Talon came out in late 2011, almost a year later, patch V1.0.0.124, and he didn't see much play once his mp5 got nerfed so it wasn't soon after that Tiamat was tried.
(Also Talon's title is "The Blade's Shadow" and his French title would translate to "the Shadowblade". English-speaking Frenchies pls.)
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Cant you just make it that Kayle can't buy Hurricane as she is a melee champ with her E being a range buff with slight AoE cleave on it? Did riot not learn that the last time they did such a range nerf it utterly destroyed Ryze back in s3. It wasn't until they added back 25 range that people even considered using him again.
Also LB changes seem seriously bad. And Braum changes seem fine, just small nerfs on things that needed it.
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On May 24 2014 08:02 Alaric wrote:
V1.0.0.106 is when Trundle came out, late 2010. Talon came out in late 2011, almost a year later, patch V1.0.0.124, and he didn't see much play once his mp5 got nerfed so it wasn't soon after that Tiamat was tried.
(Also Talon's title is "The Blade's Shadow" and his French title would translate to "the Shadowblade". English-speaking Frenchies pls.)
Thanks. I've never worked in a tech field and the only knowledge of patch version naming i really knew was the way dota 1 map names did it. so all the decimals and numbers get confusing for me.
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Easy landmarks are 130 for the start of season 2 and 152 for pre-season 3, after that Riot started naming the patch starting with the season's # so it's easier to get the time periods right.
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I'd rather they increase the downtime between her E being up than hit her range. Or give her ult a mana cost again. Seems like hitting her range should've been the last resort.
With LB, seems bizarre that they hitting base damage and ratios. Once again, simple changes like a distortion CD increase, or giving her ult a mana cost would've probably sufficed, at least for the time being.
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On May 24 2014 07:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 07:17 Nos- wrote:On May 24 2014 06:37 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 06:12 arb wrote:On May 24 2014 06:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 05:15 TheYango wrote:
Nobody bought Tiamat at the time because it was the old Tiamat that had the tiny AoE and everyone thought it was terrible. Rageblade+Ghostblade Kayle was enough of a thing for Riot to nerf that interaction.
Kayle also got remade like twice since then. I couldn't remember if that change happened before or after people started experimenting with tiamat before it got changed. there was like a 2 weak period you could see people trying tiamat on everyone that could use it because it was cost efficient before its splash came into effect. what no.. cost efficient with a bunch of stats no one needed like health regen and mana regen literally no one got tiamat except for trolls before they remade it tiamat was 50 ad for 2070 gold with 15 hp/5 and 5 mp/5 tacked on. that's only slightly less cost efficient for damage than long swords 3 hp/second and 1 mana/second is useful for laning. this was the same time period everyone was getting philo stones because of how good the regen was in lane, otherwise they'd be grabbing the other gold gain items. it was quite good for laning. but it was dead ended and not slot efficient and the splash didn't accelerate farm enough to justify it in a game that was based around snowballing your gold lead as much as you can. especially since the end game items were all more cost efficient than almost every dead end item. why wouldn't you just get a bf at that point for like 1600 There was a 2 week period where a bunch of people were grabbing tiamat for a bunch of champions in solo queue. iirc the most successful ones with it were poppy trundle shyvana and talon. mostly because it splashed with bonus damage from their spells and talon because the regen was useful and it let him continue to clear with 1 rake. it fell off really quickly when people realized they still weren't winning any more games because of it.
You could literally get a bf sword/long sword for the same cost and do more damage.
Talon wasnt able to rake constantly once they nerfed his Mp5. Iirc you could do it with philo due to how high his regen was, could actually rake infinitely on cooldown without running out of mana.
Regardless, outside of the troll Shyvana builds of 5 tiamats(which was awful) NO ONE build Tiamat besides trolls.
It wasnt until the rework Tiamat even became an option to be built on anyone.
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Was Akali played in some pro game lately? She's in every ranked game on EUNE atm. oO
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Wow
Yasuo is really fun o.o
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On May 23 2014 23:28 canikizu wrote:
Meteos is jungling Rengar a bunch these days.
but remember, new rengar is trash and everyone will constantly remind you of it
*rolls eyes*
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On May 24 2014 08:23 JazzVortical wrote:
I'd rather they increase the downtime between her E being up than hit her range. Or give her ult a mana cost again. Seems like hitting her range should've been the last resort.
With LB, seems bizarre that they hitting base damage and ratios. Once again, simple changes like a distortion CD increase, or giving her ult a mana cost would've probably sufficed, at least for the time being.
I don't know if it would work but what I would test, were I riot, is to go thru with these nerfs on Chains and Distortion (sans ratio nerf) and keep the damage on sigil, that way if you want to do damage you have to use her least utility mimic (or leave it on chain for the risk factor if you like that better)
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On May 24 2014 08:23 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 07:24 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 07:17 Nos- wrote:On May 24 2014 06:37 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 06:12 arb wrote:On May 24 2014 06:04 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 24 2014 05:15 TheYango wrote:
Nobody bought Tiamat at the time because it was the old Tiamat that had the tiny AoE and everyone thought it was terrible. Rageblade+Ghostblade Kayle was enough of a thing for Riot to nerf that interaction.
Kayle also got remade like twice since then. I couldn't remember if that change happened before or after people started experimenting with tiamat before it got changed. there was like a 2 weak period you could see people trying tiamat on everyone that could use it because it was cost efficient before its splash came into effect. what no.. cost efficient with a bunch of stats no one needed like health regen and mana regen literally no one got tiamat except for trolls before they remade it tiamat was 50 ad for 2070 gold with 15 hp/5 and 5 mp/5 tacked on. that's only slightly less cost efficient for damage than long swords 3 hp/second and 1 mana/second is useful for laning. this was the same time period everyone was getting philo stones because of how good the regen was in lane, otherwise they'd be grabbing the other gold gain items. it was quite good for laning. but it was dead ended and not slot efficient and the splash didn't accelerate farm enough to justify it in a game that was based around snowballing your gold lead as much as you can. especially since the end game items were all more cost efficient than almost every dead end item. why wouldn't you just get a bf at that point for like 1600 There was a 2 week period where a bunch of people were grabbing tiamat for a bunch of champions in solo queue. iirc the most successful ones with it were poppy trundle shyvana and talon. mostly because it splashed with bonus damage from their spells and talon because the regen was useful and it let him continue to clear with 1 rake. it fell off really quickly when people realized they still weren't winning any more games because of it. You could literally get a bf sword/long sword for the same cost and do more damage. Talon wasnt able to rake constantly once they nerfed his Mp5. Iirc you could do it with philo due to how high his regen was, could actually rake infinitely on cooldown without running out of mana. Regardless, outside of the troll Shyvana builds of 5 tiamats(which was awful) NO ONE build Tiamat besides trolls. It wasnt until the rework Tiamat even became an option to be built on anyone.
Tiamat twitch was a thing too. Tiamat tuesdays were the best.
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On May 24 2014 09:23 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 23:28 canikizu wrote:
Meteos is jungling Rengar a bunch these days.
but remember, new rengar is trash and everyone will constantly remind you of it *rolls eyes*
Duh. If a champion gets reworked and isn't FOTM immediately, clearly it was a failure.
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Well, to be fair, the Rengar rework was a failure because it didn't change any of the real problems with that champion.
And Olaf's rework hasn't really made him any more stable.
Sivir's seems to have been fairly successful though.
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EPT
