EPT[Patch 4.5] Rune Rework General Discussion - Page 85
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On April 15 2014 19:01 Amui wrote: Yorick is just in a sad state right now. Nerfed too much to be viable in any role, and a kit that gets roflstomped by a number of popular tops now. Like who? Pretty sure nobody roflstomps Yorick, though some can break or win through great effort. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On April 15 2014 21:30 zer0das wrote: I don't know what old Kayle felt like, but good god feral flare makes jungle Kayle hit like a truck. At one point I was pretty much 1v3ing the enemy team, and if I were on the same items with spirit of the spectral wraith or spirit of the elder lizard, there's no way I'd be steamrolling the enemy team like I was. As a Kayle jungle main, holy fuck believe me Feral Flare is super bad on her. No sustain whatsoever, have to steal every blue if you want to keep remotely the same relevance as the usual buildpath. Plus if you have to farm your Feral Flare before your T1s fall, you can't use your batshit early redbuff ganks. Don't do that. It's bad. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:06 Sufficiency wrote: The only thing pets need, IMO, is an attack-move feature. There needs to be a way to control non ulti pets, which doesn't cause you to move if you try it right after it disappears. The number of times I mislead someone with my leblanc clone, get to safety and start recalling, and try to do one last move (ctrl + click) with my clone, only for the clone to disappear right as i click, causing me to move instead, cancelling my recall.. T.T On April 16 2014 00:07 The_Unseen wrote: As a Kayle jungle main, holy fuck believe me Feral Flare is super bad on her. No sustain whatsoever, have to steal every blue if you want to keep remotely the same relevance as the usual buildpath. Plus if you have to farm your Feral Flare before your T1s fall, you can't use your batshit early redbuff ganks. Don't do that. It's bad. Have you tried just buying a spirit stone after you finish wriggles? (Or maybe after nashor/wriggles.) I got the idea from watching some yi streams, and it gives a ton of mana/health regen for only 700 gold. (Also crazy fast clear times) And it's not like you're really poor when you build wriggles~ | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:08 killerdog wrote: Have you tried just buying a spirit stone after you finish wriggles? (Or maybe after nashor/wriggles.) I got the idea from watching some yi streams, and it gives a ton of mana/health regen for only 700 gold. And it's not like you're really poor when you build wriggles~ True, it's a decent idea. My point still stands on you having to afk farm the jungle to get to Feral Flare early enough. And 700g towards Spirit Stone delays your core even more (which let me remind you, changes EVERYTHING on Kayle, your powerspike is massive once Tooth+Lich is online, which I aim at getting around ~22-25mn) | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you're looking at Heal vs. Barrier, the reason why you would take Barrier now is because of lots of healing debuffs on the enemy team. For example, vs. Fizz in mid I would still take Barrier. However, because Heal is so strong, and because they removed the multiple heal debuff so your whole team can take it now, everybody has started taking Heal over Ignite. The more people who take Heal over Ignite, the better Heal is. Kinda funny. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:13 The_Unseen wrote: True, it's a decent idea. My point still stands on you having to afk farm the jungle to get to Feral Flare early enough. And 700g towards Spirit Stone delays your core even more (which let me remind you, changes EVERYTHING on Kayle, your powerspike is massive once Tooth+Lich is online, which I aim at getting around ~22-25mn) Do you normally finish a jungle item first though? Or just go straight for nashors after spirit stone. Jungle items are 350 more expensive then wriggles, and with the 30% bonus gold from monsters, I'd imagine you'd make up the extra 350 gold you spent to get wriggles + spirit vs wraith/golem/lizard well before the 20 minute mark. (You're making 30% extra gold, clearing way faster and getting some pretty useful stats too.) If you just get spirit then rush nashors i have no idea though. Also LCS just taught me that ignite grants vision now~ | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:07 The_Unseen wrote:As a Kayle jungle main, holy fuck believe me Feral Flare is super bad on her. No sustain whatsoever, have to steal every blue if you want to keep remotely the same relevance as the usual buildpath. Plus if you have to farm your Feral Flare before your T1s fall, you can't use your batshit early redbuff ganks. Don't do that. It's bad. Maybe I just play Kayle super passive. I feel like the loss of conservation is largely offset by the fact big monsters fall much faster, so you only have to use your E on every camp. The 2nd clear is probably a little more difficult, but I barely notice the difference after that. And after a point, your clear is far superior and you do a lot more on-hit damage to champions. It almost feels like it takes longer to move between camps than it does to clear them. I never really get to use the early redbuff ganks, every lane is always pushed anyways. >> | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On April 15 2014 23:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Renekton is a good champion, he always feels strong but people who aren't bad can always play around him. I still find it a problem that most viable top lane champions are chosen depending on whether they can handle renekton in any way. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 15 2014 23:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Renekton is a good champion, he always feels strong but people who aren't bad can always play around him. What game are you seeing ? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On April 15 2014 23:46 Kyrie wrote: i am also unconvinced by the importance placed on the early level 2 bot lane and to make a broader point, i think this is just the bot lane version of the 'super critical early strat' that exists for each role/lane. it's getting a leash/starting at the proper camp for junglers, taking control of the first wave top, and harassing early mid. these things do matter, but they're constantly parroted as reasons why games are won/lost with little understanding of why they matter, when they matter, and how they impact the game dynamic going forward. it's sort of the next level up from complaining about the lack of jungler ganks It's actually incredibly important. Certain supports are at their peak levels 1-3, others 4-6, the ranges vary based on who their adc is and what they're facing but on certain champions who aren't fotm are reliant on strong early games (or cheese) to be able to match up to the fotm picks. It's certainly overstated and the whole phase is not dictated based on who hits 2 first, but it certainly can be. You are right though that it exists in each matchup, though I'd argue bot (and then top) are the two lanes that are influenced the most by it. If you're playing Thresh, Leona, Annie, Karma, and Morgana you need not worry, this is more for the Blitzcrank, Veigar, Nautilus, etc supports. Just remember that the lower the league you play in, the more that's viable so as long as you aren't D1 you should be able to have success on almost anything (think support Warwick) as long as you find out how to properly play it. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On April 16 2014 03:09 Zdrastochye wrote: It's actually incredibly important. Certain supports are at their peak levels 1-3, others 4-6, the ranges vary based on who their adc is and what they're facing but on certain champions who aren't fotm are reliant on strong early games (or cheese) to be able to match up to the fotm picks. It's certainly overstated and the whole phase is not dictated based on who hits 2 first, but it certainly can be. You are right though that it exists in each matchup, though I'd argue bot (and then top) are the two lanes that are influenced the most by it. If you're playing Thresh, Leona, Annie, Karma, and Morgana you need not worry, this is more for the Blitzcrank, Veigar, Nautilus, etc supports. Just remember that the lower the league you play in, the more that's viable so as long as you aren't D1 you should be able to have success on almost anything (think support Warwick) as long as you find out how to properly play it. am i correct in reading this post as primarily saying that niche/gimmick supports with specific timings are more dependent than meta picks on taking advantage of those timings | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On April 16 2014 03:09 Zdrastochye wrote: It's actually incredibly important. Certain supports are at their peak levels 1-3, others 4-6, the ranges vary based on who their adc is and what they're facing but on certain champions who aren't fotm are reliant on strong early games (or cheese) to be able to match up to the fotm picks. It's certainly overstated and the whole phase is not dictated based on who hits 2 first, but it certainly can be. You are right though that it exists in each matchup, though I'd argue bot (and then top) are the two lanes that are influenced the most by it. If you're playing Thresh, Leona, Annie, Karma, and Morgana you need not worry, this is more for the Blitzcrank, Veigar, Nautilus, etc supports. Just remember that the lower the league you play in, the more that's viable so as long as you aren't D1 you should be able to have success on almost anything (think support Warwick) as long as you find out how to properly play it. As someone that plays nidalee support, which is VERY weak level 1 and 2, you NEED to be in lane shoving it as fast as possible. Shoving that early makes it so that they can't really fight you, and lets you get out of the very weak area that is early levels. It also lets you hit spears way easier (less creep to shoot around, other team is stuck standing still aa'ing to push back.) | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:08 killerdog wrote: Have you tried just buying a spirit stone after you finish wriggles? (Or maybe after nashor/wriggles.) I got the idea from watching some yi streams, and it gives a ton of mana/health regen for only 700 gold. (Also crazy fast clear times) And it's not like you're really poor when you build wriggles~ You can get spirit stone first, actually. You don't need to get wriggles until you're at the 25 camp mark, at which point delaying it any further is just inefficient. | ||
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