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Gahlo
United States35093 Posts
On April 21 2014 02:44 justiceknight wrote: regarding seal i saw some guides says Health seal > armor seal, is it true? i cant test it out because of insufficient IP. Phreak went pretty indepth about runes, lots of good stuff in the video. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 21 2014 03:54 krndandaman wrote: The thing about feral flare is that it seems meh for like the first 15-20 minutes of the game but as soon as you get that feral flare it's like holy shit i'm a beast. then when you get botrk or something similar it's like the fuck i'm super saiyan. if they evened out the power curve I think it would be a better fix to feral flare. give it some combat stats early on and make the stacking weaker imo or something similar. I wonder what would happen if they just made it so FF and botrk passives can't both be active at the same time. Just have whichever one would do the most damage proc, or something like that. Really hackish and ugly fix but it might actually help, those two items just have crazy synergy right now. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
Champion damage and clearing speed should not be so closely correlated. Before it was Lee Sin and Elise clearing as fast as Maokai and Amumu (faster) while doing just as good/better in ganks. Now its the same story, except you replace the word "ganks" with "mid/lategame damage". IMO its still really a legacy problem caused by the invention of jungle-only items, which never should have been done. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Once teams start having to group up, you can't farm camps as easily (especially if your team starts killing camps for money, with the big creep so heavily loaded in value (gold, the healing relic, the stack for Flare... )) so usually during a game you farm Flare in the early game, then you get more or less stacks, also depending on how well your team does and how much you fight, then teams start grouping and you don't have time to farm your stacks anymore. TL;DR: - Rush Wriggle's - Get Flare more or less early depending on performance - Build most of your Flare stacks for the game during the laning/farming part - Your stack-building slows significantly when outer towers are down and teams group. If the meta goes into super aggressiveness, counterjungling, or heavy midgame pushes, eg. less passivity, the farming will get slower and thus the "stack-building" phase will get shorter, resulting in less stacks overall and a less potent item unless the game gets really late. Reducing the farming effectiveness of the item a bit, making it so it requires more stacks to transform (you can't reduce Maim's base stats without nerfing Wriggle's, which may require buffing it elsewhere), effectively reduces your number of stacks on Flare by at least that much. "At least" because it also reduces how long you'll spend building stacks, which can snowball if this phase ends up super short and giving you little to no stacks. I'm fine with Flare being strong late or if you manage to farm super well. However, it means Flare has to be tuned with a possible super-passive farming meta in mind, where it may be too strong. It's useless to just smash it if the meta moves back to counterjungling and early aggression shortly after. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On April 21 2014 04:13 killerdog wrote: I wonder what would happen if they just made it so FF and botrk passives can't both be active at the same time. Just have whichever one would do the most damage proc, or something like that. Really hackish and ugly fix but it might actually help, those two items just have crazy synergy right now. I wouldn't like a change like that, it would seem like a really sloppy solution that wouldn't fix the problem on a long term scale. I'm with krn on this one, just give it a less-terrifying mid/late-game scaling, it's just stupid to see how certain champions like nocturne can turn a game by himself just by purchasing a specific item. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Having multiple playstyles in the jungle isn't a problem. Having junglers who farm till 6 and only start ganking then isn't a problem. The problem is that the stats on Feral Flare are SO good that it's being taken anyway by early game junglers who want to gank a lot (Xin), and the late game junglers who want to farm till 6 can then turn a game around in ways that shouldn't be possible. Personally I think the concept of the item is great, it's just overtuned and after a nerf or two it'll make the jungle a healthier place. Right now shit's toxic as fuck though. | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
Also, promo series games suck, I hate them :/ | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
real | ||
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:54 FinestHour wrote: lol literally first game of the day and get failed to connect message real Everytime i try and play ranked 5s with my mates SOMEONE gets that shit and has to restart PC. Im more of a mid laner then a friggen jungler. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:14 Ketara wrote: The problem with Feral Flare is just that its stats are too good. Having multiple playstyles in the jungle isn't a problem. Having junglers who farm till 6 and only start ganking then isn't a problem. The problem is that the stats on Feral Flare are SO good that it's being taken anyway by early game junglers who want to gank a lot (Xin), and the late game junglers who want to farm till 6 can then turn a game around in ways that shouldn't be possible. Personally I think the concept of the item is great, it's just overtuned and after a nerf or two it'll make the jungle a healthier place. Right now shit's toxic as fuck though. I think if they just reduce the number of stacks to transform and reduce the base stats it'll be fine. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:14 Ketara wrote: The problem with Feral Flare is just that its stats are too good. Having multiple playstyles in the jungle isn't a problem. Having junglers who farm till 6 and only start ganking then isn't a problem. The problem is that the stats on Feral Flare are SO good that it's being taken anyway by early game junglers who want to gank a lot (Xin), and the late game junglers who want to farm till 6 can then turn a game around in ways that shouldn't be possible. Personally I think the concept of the item is great, it's just overtuned and after a nerf or two it'll make the jungle a healthier place. Right now shit's toxic as fuck though. Well the base stats on Feral need to be good because attack speed junglers would be pretty weak otherwise just because of how attack speed scales. If you got rid of the infinite scaling and just gave it the transform it would still be wits end (plus double gold generation and sustain) for 1650 gold which would still be good enough to make AS based junglers viable. Because of the ward it would probably still be super slot efficient lategame unlike all the other jungle items | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
On April 21 2014 06:23 FinestHour wrote: does restarting fix it? i just gave up after a few minutes of trying to get in Its hit and miss, but usually a mix of router/pc restarts fix it. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35093 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:54 FinestHour wrote: lol literally first game of the day and get failed to connect message real Trying to play on 4/20 sounds all kinds of bad. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On April 21 2014 06:25 Goumindong wrote: Well the base stats on Feral need to be good because attack speed junglers would be pretty weak otherwise just because of how attack speed scales. If you got rid of the infinite scaling and just gave it the transform it would still be wits end (plus double gold generation and sustain) for 1650 gold which would still be good enough to make AS based junglers viable. Because of the ward it would probably still be super slot efficient lategame unlike all the other jungle items See, I think you are just misinterpreting one of the basic issues of Feral Flare, which is that attack speed is a terrible stat for melle champions. Not, that it should be, but just based on how LOL has existed for the longest time, AS is basically only good on Melle Champions for splitpushing. For instance, unless Jax or Shyvana are massively ahead, they dont really want to teamfight when they go for a BotRK first, instead they splitpush. So, Feral Flare is basically just BotRK with a twist, and for junglers. Junglers basically need to be in teamfights, so the item needs to be, overpowered to be viable in teamfights (because the game is basically designed to make such an item bad in teamfights). But that makes it even more overpowered for splitpushing, which now creates an even bigger problem, where the other team has to send a #3 priority champ (toplane) to defend against you #4 priority champ (jungle). TLDR: Even if you want AA junglers to be good, you should not want the jungle item that makes them good AA based, because its basically a rehash of the entire melle carry problem all over again. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It has nothing to do with AS. Jax with Triforce+BotRK splitpushes because that makes him a frightening duelist and he's more likely to live long enough to use his sustain and the Spellblade's sustained damage if he only has to worry about one champion's worth of damage rather than 5. If he wants to teamfight, he'll build Randuin's second or something, for the tankiness, not to build non-AS stats. | ||
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