On November 11 2013 10:37 cLutZ wrote: I actually think the LVL 1 changes are intended to reduce lvl 1 strats(they are just playing coy), and I think that is a good thing because even now invades/etc generate a lot of randomness.
For instance, C9 lost 3 games in summer split. 2 of them they basically lost at lvl 1.
So instead of letting teams learn how to deal with lvl 1 strats lets remove them instead? There is nothing more RNG about lvl 1 stuff then at any other point.
Except there is because of the opportunity cost of everything going on. Each team basically has 5 wards, which they want to use the least of before they go to lane; if a fight ends up happening players will typically need to level a different skill than normal; you can be standing on some random ward without being able to see approaches to it; time spent traveling to lane; etc.
Just watch the CLG beating C9 game vs. the other 3. Maybe CLG prepared some sick lvl 1 "ward the redbush" strat, or they got lucky, and C9 played too standard.
I mean, I am all in for lvl 1 Blitzcrank + Nunu cheese, but in the current game the better team seems to win more often when lvl 1 is done in a "safe" way.
The thing you are neglecting is the metagame aspect of this.
It's not RNG because teams don't do things "randomly" at level 1. Even if you don't have information about what a team is doing in a particular game, every team has certain styles and patterns which they fall into. A team likes to ward specific places, move certain ways when scouting the map level 1, tries to be greedy by not having a ward here, etc. These are things for other teams to notice in replay analysis and exploit when they get into a real game.
But as a spectator, nothing ruins a game faster than seeing a team botch a level 1 fight. You know that unless some major throws happen the game is basically over, you just have to sit through 20-25 minutes of a decided game.
That is a product of a much greater system issue than level 1 strats. Removing level one plays is merely addressing the symptom and not fixing what is causing it. That has been riots philosophy throughout the s4 changes
On November 11 2013 10:37 cLutZ wrote: I actually think the LVL 1 changes are intended to reduce lvl 1 strats(they are just playing coy), and I think that is a good thing because even now invades/etc generate a lot of randomness.
For instance, C9 lost 3 games in summer split. 2 of them they basically lost at lvl 1.
So instead of letting teams learn how to deal with lvl 1 strats lets remove them instead? There is nothing more RNG about lvl 1 stuff then at any other point.
Except there is because of the opportunity cost of everything going on. Each team basically has 5 wards, which they want to use the least of before they go to lane; if a fight ends up happening players will typically need to level a different skill than normal; you can be standing on some random ward without being able to see approaches to it; time spent traveling to lane; etc.
Just watch the CLG beating C9 game vs. the other 3. Maybe CLG prepared some sick lvl 1 "ward the redbush" strat, or they got lucky, and C9 played too standard.
I mean, I am all in for lvl 1 Blitzcrank + Nunu cheese, but in the current game the better team seems to win more often when lvl 1 is done in a "safe" way.
The thing you are neglecting is the metagame aspect of this.
It's not RNG because teams don't do things "randomly" at level 1. Even if you don't have information about what a team is doing in a particular game, every team has certain styles and patterns which they fall into. A team likes to ward specific places, move certain ways when scouting the map level 1, tries to be greedy by not having a ward here, etc. These are things for other teams to notice in replay analysis and exploit when they get into a real game.
But as a spectator, nothing ruins a game faster than seeing a team botch a level 1 fight. You know that unless some major throws happen the game is basically over, you just have to sit through 20-25 minutes of a decided game.
Cheeses are interesting in BW.
The most important thing for a spectator esport is variety. That said Riot really does think those first few seconds of the game where you're waiting for minions to spawn is not useful. For most players, it is useless and a waste of time. If a team is attentive and not jerking off and watching hearthstone after the loading screen comes up, they can get to the buff camps in 50 seconds. Compare the Shen that makes it to lane 3 minions late because he went to take a shit and had to tp to lane to the stressful worker split every player made in BW.
Minions arrive by 2:00 to mid lane. That's a whole wasted minute for 10 players per game over thousands of games per day. If there are 100k games a day that's 1 million minutes, or 2 years of wasted time each day.
Personally I feel like the game could start faster but I'm used to the way the game behaves now.
On November 11 2013 19:10 mr_tolkien wrote: Oh btw when is the cut ? This evening really late or during the day ?
I believe it''s midnight CET, but it might be midnight gmt, not sure.
Unless they end it at midnight american time, although that would be rather silly.
Yeah, silly for an American game to have an American endtime.
Since I told my friend "I wish Ahri was played more competitively, I miss watching games with her in it" before she got big again, I'm gonna say it here. I wish Diana got played more.
IDK if this got posted before but this montage is legit impressive, and if you know me, you know I'm usually never impressed by montages but omg the plays are unreal, definitely worth the watch.
After watching that video I got inspired to learn Cass. I think I'm really getting the hang of the hero.
On November 11 2013 23:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: IDK if this got posted before but this montage is legit impressive, and if you know me, you know I'm usually never impressed by montages but omg the plays are unreal, definitely worth the watch.
cass is definitely tough to get comfortable with, i mained her some in season 2 and probably struggled most (apart from just landing the goddamn q's) with throwing e before q hit after casting it. for those interested and willing to suffer google translate, the player in the video is high d1 and wrote a cass guide on inven with random background music because korea
On November 11 2013 12:29 zulu_nation8 wrote: funny how the reddit guy accusing 408's crew of selling challenger 3s teams actually has the courtesy of crossing their names out. Guess some people are gonna get banned soon. He did make a LOT of money doing this last season though.
maybe this isn't appropriate for gd but do you know if a certain rengar main was in on the 3s boosting?
On November 11 2013 23:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: IDK if this got posted before but this montage is legit impressive, and if you know me, you know I'm usually never impressed by montages but omg the plays are unreal, definitely worth the watch.
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her. These are just her bad matchups, and since everyone plays the assassin stuff, she doesn't see play.
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850
Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items.
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850
Well, not really range so much as cast time and positioning. She has the cast time of a dota hero on three of her spells.
No, her problem is the assassin meta. Cass is completely fine and needs no changes. She is unpopular because assassins can just jump on her with high mobility and kill her.
Yes, and a big portion of the problem with assassins is items.
There are a multitude of reasons for the assassin meta. However, you said it was Cass's item options that cause her problems, which is just not true.
On November 11 2013 23:43 WaveofShadow wrote: In before Riot decides to rework her or some shit because she doesn't see play, like Xerath. (hint: neither of them needed anything)
Cassio's only problem is items. Back in S2 when she was fotm the reason for that was because with deathcap + wota she could solo baron while her team split pushed/other stuff. She was so strong with SV because her burst damage is insane. Now that spell vamp is so much weaker and items are aimed more at the assassin-type APs, she has a lot of problems because of her low range.
if cass is low range, what would you consider to be mid/long? her shortest range spell is twin fangs at 700, and noxious blast is a full 850
Keep in mind that spell ranges are about 120 less than they appear when you compare them to AA ranges, so 700 honestly isn't amazing. But the main thing is that most APs have a threat zone larger than Cass because they either have much higher mobility or much higher effective range and Cass is mostly skillshot DPS instead of burst (giving a lot more room for derpage).
On November 12 2013 00:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: i just want to say that casting cass ult is the most awkward thing ever orz
Reminds me of that one time I saw Toyz wreck face 1v5 as Cass at the end of s2 and thought I should try cass. And then I just cried cause Cass is hard as fuck
EPT
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