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On November 09 2013 21:57 Slayer91 wrote:
I wonder how many people think im not being constructive and im twisting words, and reading things that aren't QQ as QQ.
thats a question not a derision btw
considering these elements I still disagree with you, if I'm behind in lane like that and it happens quite a bit I normally would build full tank instead of becoming another backliner except does less damage and is harder to kill
Well the way the discussion felt like to me was "In this situation we'd have been better off doing X. - You shouldn't have gotten into that situation to begin with. - Maybe, but that doesn't help the case/that's not the topic."
Now my problem was that going full tank from level 1 onward, Trundle didn't have the sustain to fight Renekton back and tried doing it, so he fell further behind (we killed him the three times I had to come top, but that included Trundle fighting past river w/o wards or outer tower, running back to his inner and surviving with sub-200 HP after I intercepted Renekton before he could dive). Obviously, had he started going BotRK and been rolled I wouldn't have called him out for switching to building resists over finishing BotRK, for example.
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you could have made a bigger complaint if he rushed botrk and got 1 combo'd after falling behind before you could even kill him. I don't see the argument. someone who sucked at the champ fought early and then fell behind and kept trying to fight while behind and lost his lane
theres little difference between a player building armour and having no potions and not being able to win an all-in vs a sustain champ or building damage and not being able to lifesteal because he gets bullied out of lane
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poor alex ich, he is on a 6 win streak getting 0 lp every games
forever diamond 1
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he's just training his way to improve his mmr to get worthy opponents
"That which is an obstacle in the path of the weak is a stepping stone in the path of the great"
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On November 10 2013 00:00 Slayer91 wrote:
you could have made a bigger complaint if he rushed botrk and got 1 combo'd after falling behind before you could even kill him. I don't see the argument. someone who sucked at the champ fought early and then fell behind and kept trying to fight while behind and lost his lane
theres little difference between a player building armour and having no potions and not being able to win an all-in vs a sustain champ or building damage and not being able to lifesteal because he gets bullied out of lane
My suggestion of Trundle going BORK wasn't taking into account the fact that he got crushed in lane. If he got crushed in lane, going fulltank is absolutely the right decision.
You can't just spend the whole game babysitting Trundle's lane though - focus the ganks on the lanes that are doing well, and get them snowballing instead. If you get a good gank off on Ahri's lane, then you BOTH might be able to go gank Renekton, or just get Dragon (since you were pretty far ahead of Lee)
Getting Vayne and Ahri snowballing is going to help your team a lot more than saving trundle from 1 more death with no payout. Specifically, if Vayne becomes a monster, it doesn't matter HOW fed Renekton is.
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it all comes down to your ability to judge how well you can gank bot and how likely it will cause the lane to snowball and do the same judgement for the other lanes
jungling is so easy except for how hard it is sometimes
but its a good reason to question yourself constnatly on what the right decision is it instead of questioning your teammates champion picks and item choices LOL
given the comp full tank trundle was almost certianly correct because the best way to win would have been to take pressure off of the team by diving caitlyn which should keep ahri from jumping in too soon and you can use ult for renekton
or if not diving caitlyn putting some damage on ahri while your pillar stops caitlyn from getting too close to the fight past anyone but you.
(and then vi+trundle combo can easily stop ahri from doing what she wants, leona+lee+renek dont have enough damage alone if they arent overfed)
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See, you're confusing question myself about the right decisions considering the state of the game (picks, builds, who's fed or not, etc.) and using said state (and my teammates) not to question myself.
I mean, I'm ready to admit when I'm wrong, for example maybe I could effectively have ganked their lane from behind after the tower fell, when they have to move a bit farther to zone Vayne. I didn't do it because Vayne has equal cs with Cait so I deemed the lane fine while I didn't want to have a 4v5 to deal with; I also felt that the chances of the gank actually converting into kills or drake was low because of how hard it'd be for them to reach Caitlyn herself (it was especially the Janna support vs a Leona that made me doubt the ability to kill/force them back while remaining healthy).
You're telling me as long as I manage to come from behind it should work regardless, then it's my lack of experience and I probably should have tried regardless; also too conservative a playstyle where I try to defend too much over playing risky and snowballing.
In teamfights Vayne couldn't deal with Renek+Leona, though, but she went BotRK-QSS-Triforce, so even after Trundle's ult Renek had 110+ armour so she lacked the damage to kill him. Diving wasn't really an option because Trundle had 0 damage and myself diving alone was keeping people busy for ~5s while dealing 0 damage post-ult because of the cc chain if they decided to collapse on me, which wasn't worth it considering how little damage our line-up would deal (which, again, could stem from the comp as much as from no LW nor void staff on our carries).
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Sure, it's hard to kill cait in a bot lane gank, but just killing Leona (who just doesnt escape very well other than "shields up + walk away and pray") in bot lane could easily be enough to take a dragon or turret. And if you really get Vayne monstrous, she'll have enough money to have the last whisper in addition to those other items. Going even bot lane is fine for vayne in a vacuum but if vayne gets ahead she's so good at chasing that it's very possible that she just roflstomps all the way to the bank and completely takes Leona/Cait out of the game.
Also you+Trundle totally have enough armor shred that if the team focuses renek, he'll go down easily. 100 armor really isn't that bad for a VAYNE to kill.
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On November 10 2013 02:05 Alaric wrote:
See, you're confusing question myself about the right decisions considering the state of the game (picks, builds, who's fed or not, etc.) and using said state (and my teammates) not to question myself.
I mean, I'm ready to admit when I'm wrong, for example maybe I could effectively have ganked their lane from behind after the tower fell, when they have to move a bit farther to zone Vayne. I didn't do it because Vayne has equal cs with Cait so I deemed the lane fine while I didn't want to have a 4v5 to deal with; I also felt that the chances of the gank actually converting into kills or drake was low because of how hard it'd be for them to reach Caitlyn herself (it was especially the Janna support vs a Leona that made me doubt the ability to kill/force them back while remaining healthy).
You're telling me as long as I manage to come from behind it should work regardless, then it's my lack of experience and I probably should have tried regardless; also too conservative a playstyle where I try to defend too much over playing risky and snowballing.
In teamfights Vayne couldn't deal with Renek+Leona, though, but she went BotRK-QSS-Triforce, so even after Trundle's ult Renek had 110+ armour so she lacked the damage to kill him. Diving wasn't really an option because Trundle had 0 damage and myself diving alone was keeping people busy for ~5s while dealing 0 damage post-ult because of the cc chain if they decided to collapse on me, which wasn't worth it considering how little damage our line-up would deal (which, again, could stem from the comp as much as from no LW nor void staff on our carries).
If you have Janna, lane-ganking is the best option especially after 6, and when it's a caitlyn lane, she will most lkely always play aggressively which gives you alot of opportunties to simply force passivity or just rape either. Even if leona tries to play it smart and covers everything with pinks, i personally believe that Vi should have no trouble ganking the lane. Lee sin is like the equivalent to this method aswell, although you have to do really pro Q's and with Vi all you gotta do is Q -> R -> gg
Considering that Vayne went for the Tri-force and QSS i do think that probably made it feel like Trundle was the weaker one in this scenario. Even IF leona gets on Vayne, QSS is so freaking meh, and the overall positioning is far more important; Leona should be more busy trying to CC Vi or Trundle instead of being able to just dive onto Vayne (which neglects the QSS purchase). Tri-force is probably good if you're so far ahead that whatever you buy won't really change the outcome, but when you go Botrk you NEED a 3 item timing before getting a defensive item (this also applies to Tri-force users, they also go for a 3-item timing) and if you don't, you're just useless. 110 armor is nothing, hell if she had bought real items she should have shredded him like fuck.
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On November 09 2013 19:46 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 18:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Doublelift said that Lucian was as good as Cait and Varus.
This satisfaction tastes so good. Double "Draven is trash" lift Double "No one will be playing ADC soon" lift
The most famous I thought was "graves is trash".
when graves was released, now he's the only one advocating for graves for play. lol.
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Don't even bring up release Graves... That fucker was pure terror.
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On November 10 2013 02:52 Cloud9157 wrote:
Don't even bring up release Graves... That fucker was pure terror.
the only reason he was so stupidly strong was because no one main'd caitlyn at that time, except like 2 adcs.
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On November 10 2013 02:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 02:52 Cloud9157 wrote:
Don't even bring up release Graves... That fucker was pure terror. the only reason he was so stupidly strong was because no one main'd caitlyn at that time, except like 2 adcs.
Didn't even matter, EQ you for half your life and you're headed back to base/running and chugging pots back then.
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also release graves had 550 range, did lot more damage and was a lot more tanky than what he is now.
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On November 10 2013 02:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 02:52 Cloud9157 wrote:
Don't even bring up release Graves... That fucker was pure terror. the only reason he was so stupidly strong was because no one main'd caitlyn at that time, except like 2 adcs.
rofl no release graves had mage-like burst damage and bruiser-like tankyness, he was batshit op
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On November 08 2013 22:03 Baffels wrote:
Hmm..inFin has scorched earth renekton...guess I will settle for pool party...
Is Shyvana the only champ still getting bonus armor/mr for her passive? Nid and other champions have lost theres over the patches, shyv next? Seems silly how tanky she can be starting DS and building straight to BotRK.
Also anyone watching the NEST? Just wondering how this 3 way tie is going to go down. Was also looking forward to seeing CC club since they knocked OMG out of G-league but, didn't make it to the hype.
I imagine she still gets hers cuz her form isnt perm like the others is
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Graves still has passive resistances bonus in some way, too. And Orianna, kinda, with the ball on her. Sejuani's passive gives her flat armour upon dealing damage.
Yeah forgot Wukong, I'm dumb. :<
Personal experience of DotA 2 is ~12 games so far, and not one without at least 2 leavers (oftimes it ends 2v5 or something like that and either the last ones leave too, or they try and get throned). For all the criticism people direct toward LoL's community, there's more raging in chat but so much less ragequits at early levels so far.
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Wukong gets passive armor/MR, Soraka has her MR, Sona if you count the passive component of her W off the top of my head.
Far as supports go, I still play Lulu quite a bit. Nami is probably stronger, but the amount of things you can do with Lulu makes her so much more fun.
EDIT: Lulu : 312 games played, 58% win, Nami 67, 66% win
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On November 09 2013 20:17 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 18:21 Ryuu314 wrote:
to be fair, Syndra was pretty bad when those posts were made. She simply wasn't very good against the fotm mids. Now that all the mobile assassins have been nerfed she's a lot stronger. Syndra has also been buffed quite a few times since release. those posts were made long after the buffs
the post saying syndra was bad was 1.0.51
Syndra was buffed twice after that
+ Show Spoiler +V3.7:
Scatter the Weak: improved detection of Dark Spheres at longer ranges.
V1.0.0.154:
Transcendent: Now increases range on Unleashed Power by 75 at max rank.
Scatter the Weak: Cooldown reduced at later ranks to 18/16.5/15/13.5/12 seconds from 18/17/16/15/14.
Somewhat minor, although the 3.7 patch change does make it easier to hit Syndra stun at longer ranges, which certainly isn't insignificant. Even then, Syndra also really benefited from all the slippery assassins getting nerfed, which imo is the biggest reason why she's not a bad pick anymore.
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It's also true that strictly release Syndra was sorta bad, although it was really mostly several bugs (and a bit of QoL) that were addressed quickly after. But she did feel awkward the first few weeks.
She also suffered from not having the AoE influence of champions like Sejuani or Orianna. Her stun is powerful but it requires setup, meaning you wouldn't see it fully exploited before people really got the hang of her. Plus her ult's range was somewhat short considering the popular picks at the time so she had to expose herself a bunch during teamfights.
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EPT
