EPT[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 122
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
i was right though, she is really good! + Show Spoiler + after only about 15 patches of small buffs | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
This satisfaction tastes so good. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 09 2013 18:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Doublelift said that Lucian was as good as Cait and Varus. This satisfaction tastes so good. Double "Draven is trash" lift Double "No one will be playing ADC soon" lift | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:46 Fusilero wrote: Double "Draven is trash" lift Double "No one will be playing ADC soon" lift To be fair, he's reasonably correct on both counts. Draven does kinda suck in the pro scene; literally no pro scene outside of NA really ever played Draven and he's virtually unplayed Summer Split onwards in every region. The second point is a huge hyperbole, but ADC-less comps have been played in the pro scene with relative success and are marginally popular. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:47 Ryuu314 wrote: After looking through past patch notes I'm absolutely not surprised that Syndra is popular now. She's literally been buffed in every aspect: base damage buffs, AP ratio buffs, range buffs, cast time buffs, and many many bug fixes/quality of life changes. Syndra pretty much got the nami treatment, 50 mini buffs into viability. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:47 Fusilero wrote: Syndra pretty much got the nami treatment, 50 mini buffs into viability. I'm really sad we don't see Nami much anymore. On November 09 2013 19:52 Prog wrote: Nami got more of a bug with too long cc time into viability. That's fixed and noone plays Nami any more. ~~ That and the fact that Nami sucks with the current fotm ad carries. Although if Lucian gets really popular I can see her getting played more again. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:52 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm really sad we don't see Nami much anymore. That and the fact that Nami sucks with the current fotm ad carries. Although if Lucian gets really popular I can see her getting played more again. Two step guide to supports these days: 1. Is it zyra? 2. If no, it's annie/sona/thresh. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:47 Ryuu314 wrote: After looking through past patch notes I'm absolutely not surprised that Syndra is popular now. She's literally been buffed in every aspect: base damage buffs, AP ratio buffs, range buffs, cast time buffs, and many many bug fixes/quality of life changes. To be fair, he's reasonably correct on both counts. Draven does kinda suck in the pro scene; literally no pro scene outside of NA really ever played Draven and he's virtually unplayed Summer Split onwards in every region. The second point is a huge hyperbole, but ADC-less comps have been played in the pro scene with relative success and are marginally popular. those changes are release changes, syndra is the same champion from preseason 3 | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 09 2013 18:21 Ryuu314 wrote: to be fair, Syndra was pretty bad when those posts were made. She simply wasn't very good against the fotm mids. Now that all the mobile assassins have been nerfed she's a lot stronger. Syndra has also been buffed quite a few times since release. those posts were made long after the buffs | ||
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Shiznick
United States2200 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:47 Ryuu314 wrote: After looking through past patch notes I'm absolutely not surprised that Syndra is popular now. She's literally been buffed in every aspect: base damage buffs, AP ratio buffs, range buffs, cast time buffs, and many many bug fixes/quality of life changes. To be fair, he's reasonably correct on both counts. Draven does kinda suck in the pro scene; literally no pro scene outside of NA really ever played Draven and he's virtually unplayed Summer Split onwards in every region. The second point is a huge hyperbole, but ADC-less comps have been played in the pro scene with relative success and are marginally popular. iirc, team in korea and eu started picking up draven, and he was unplayed in summer split after the passive changes. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 09 2013 00:48 Alaric wrote: As I mentioned, we had a particularly bad draft (Trundle vs Renekton, Lux vs Ahri, Vayne-Janna vs Cait-Leona, Vi vs Lee Sin; Trundle and Janna picked when Vayne asked for "peel" vs their heavy dive comp) and the lanes went too badly to make up for it, so it heavily biases my recent Trundle experience. + Show Spoiler [game summary] + I wanted to camp mid so Lux at least stayed even until the midgame teamfighting, as I expected Trundle to at least manage Renekton, and focus on bot and mid post-6 since Ahri and Leona would prob go super aggro. Trundle started losing from level 1 (dropping to half-HP from a level 2 trade welp) and promptly died to the standard timing level 3 gank, and Lux ignored that Ahri got an exp lead after my countergank (kill Lee and assist Ahri, I get a double kill but no assist for Lux) so he died less than 10s after coming back to lane when Ahri hit 6 first. After that it was hard to gank for Lux because Lee was often sitting in the mid bush (Ahri was manageable despite being a smurf, Lux loses to Ahri but Lux+Vi wrecks any Ahri all-in), while Trundle build tabi+chainvest+ruby and was still forced out of lane, without having the damage to kill Renekton through his ult before he escaped when I came. What it meant is that during the teamfighting phase Trundle didn't have the damage to at least force them to focus him (nor to dive in duo with me to kill a carry before they turned on us), while Vayne and Lux had decent farm (esp. Vayne, lost his tower early but stayed even in cs with Cait) but not enough to deal with Leona and Renekton's midgame tankiness. Unsurprisingly, Trundle isn't much "peeling" vs so many gap closers, and he didn't have the damage to help Vayne kill their divers either. In the end we had no poke, only Lux for waveclear, were reliant on Janna's ult to disengage, had not enough dive potential wihtout matching the tankiness of their Renekton/Lee/Leona frontline, so we needed to outlast their dive to let Vayne clean up. Lux not buying Void Staff and Vayne going BotRK->QSS->Triforce when Renekton had ~200 armour played a huge role too obviously, but Do you think his auto-reset and the AS from W are enough to make him a "fast pusher"? He's still a mostly aa-reliant champions in the end, like ult-less Irelia, Jax or Wukong. Sure they're pretty good at killing the turrets themselves, but when they end up having to kill 10+ minions to push I tend to think of them as "slow", especially before they get core items. trundle has a big ad boost as well, pretty much a free bf sword, in terms of shoving a leaving a lane, he's a slow pusher, but if you try to freeze and he leaves lane, you can easily kill 6 creeps and nearly kill the tower in 1 wave which a lot of the faster pushers can't do. don't know why the game summary was relevnat. trundle picked as a peeler when he sucks at peeling (he is good for stopping engages and slowing retreats so you can get your damage out, doesn't stop gap closers at all), and then he sucks at trundle because he only picked for the comp (bad idea) and loses lane, and you get a double kill and your presence is ineffectual as lux still loses lane, and you don't manage to snowball off those kills. (probably because you try to camp a lux lane whne lux is useless in ganks anyway unless you gank reactively) vayne sucks with trundle anyway, she can already chase down people without needing a slow, you want a long range adc with disengage to force the jumpers to go past their adc/support without jumps and then you focus them down. (trundle can continue to zone the adc even with his ult on a tank) the fact that trundle couldn't do anything was because your damage guys got killed because they had no escape against renek/leona/ahri assuming that a trundle, especially one who lost lane is to blame, or that if he built differently you would have won the game is laughable. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 ), I said "our teamcomp was crap and spread all over the place, we would have needed Trundle to be a damage threat to try and make up for it", eg. in this case a full tank Trundle wasn't a sound possibility.About Lux and Vi, it is as you said gank off baits, or countergank. Vi is very good at this though: when you know Ahri's ult is up, hover near mid and ult her as soon as she ults in (it's possible to do it if Lux hits a Q and you can suppress before it runs out, too). The cooldown and distance means that even if Ahri tries to get out, you can lock her down between your ult, Q, and Lux's Q, to 100-0 her everytime she tries. It's not limited to Vi mind you, Maokai woud do the same for example, it's just Vi has a good cc+damage combo to allow for this to happen. And I expect you to tell me that Ahri shouldn't ever get caught like that, but it's Plat V dropped to high Gold Elo, even if the guy was a smurf the crushing majority of Ahri players I've seen are shit at awareness and not going win whenever they see an opening, I dunno if it's because she was FotM or deemed as broken and those are all lemmings wannabes, but I feel pretty confident punishing it that way because Ahri players not falling into these pitfalls have been exceptions to the rule for me. Reason why I couldn't snowball it is irrelevant (mostly trying to contextualise the situation, eg. we were too behind to afford a full tank), but + Show Spoiler [shorter this way] + it mostly pertained to Trundle forcing me to come top or he'd feed Renekton more kills and lose his inner tower (retard tries to fight Renek with a full tank build and two levels less, doesn't ward, runs away at 100 HP with ult running, gained 5 last hits since last time this happened). It made it pretty much impossible for me to save my ult for Ahri or to camp mid (Lee was 2+ levels behind me (8 when I passed 11) but his hovering around mid made it hard for Lux to bait Ahri, esp. since after his fuck-up at 5 Ahri pulled ahead). Meanwhile, their botlane was kinda hard to gank (we had Vayne+Janna, they had Cait, and they were smart enough to zone them rather than have Leona all-in and let me punish the commitment. I didn't have much time to spend bot anyway if I didn't want a fed Renek shitting all over our line-up during midgame | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
you needed to try to get something done. Being 2-3 levels ahead of lee gives you a huge advantage, you can wander through dragon and Q into the brush and gank from behind, or from behind tower or soemething, caitleona doesnt have the best escape and janna/vayne is very good at chasing. ahri is definitely gankable, if she wants to play agressive anyway, but it from what you're saying it sounds like you wasted a lot of time without getting that much done. Using ult on top lane seems unnecessary also, you only want to ult if you're going to kill renek and it sounded like you were just saving the top inner turret which you can do on your own while trundle heals. "Reason why I couldn't snowball it is irrelevant " seems to me that its all that is relevant. random complaining about teamcomp which is beyond your control random complaining about laners losing their lanes becuase of misplays which is beyond your control give reasons why you couldn't win the game with things that were within your control without looking for a solution doesnt seem like a good way to analyze a game at all imo. everyone should replace sound files with udyrs so they hear "our rage is beyond your control" solo q anthem imo | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:53 Fusilero wrote: Two step guide to supports these days: 1. Is it zyra? 2. If no, it's annie/sona/thresh. Also Blitz and Fiddle. Stupid that only two of these were designed to be supports. Sona and Thresh. Blitz was played more as a bruiser at his inception but I consider him more as a support. I guess when you nerf all the supports, midlaners and junglers come to take their place. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I'm not complaining, I'm saying that considering these elements, what could have been done was xxx. It'd be absurd to say "Oh well, I was mid, their top laner snowballing was beyong my control, so I can't say building Zhonya's to survive him would have been a sound decision". Y'know, if you didn't make a seemingly conscious effort to read everything as QQ and complaints it'd be easier to discuss with you, but twisting words won't lead anywhere (constructive, at least). | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
thats a question not a derision btw considering these elements I still disagree with you, if I'm behind in lane like that and it happens quite a bit I normally would build full tank instead of becoming another backliner except does less damage and is harder to kill | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:53 Fusilero wrote: Two step guide to supports these days: 1. Is it zyra? 2. If no, it's annie/sona/thresh. Nami is still working for me in the YoloQ... I also saw an uptick of Leona since Worlds. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 09 2013 22:11 Nemireck wrote: Nami is still working for me in the YoloQ... I also saw an uptick of Leona since Worlds. Leona has always been a pubstomp support of choice, I pretty much solely played her to get from bronze to silver lol. On November 09 2013 20:42 Shiznick wrote: iirc, team in korea and eu started picking up draven, and he was unplayed in summer split after the passive changes. Pray tried to play draven. It urm... didn't go well. | ||
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