EPT[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish - Page 25
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
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koziol
Poland768 Posts
On November 07 2013 09:24 Xango wrote: In the first game I was playing Ori vs your Gragas, which is quite a hard lane for Gragas in the early levels. If you try to last hit with auto attacks you will just get harassed to death by Ori, so I feel like your best option is to let the lane push and last hit under your turret. With Gragas his W giving extra AD last hitting under the turret is a breeze and it's way harder for the Ori to harass you. You tried to farm minions with your barrel from the start, which pushed the lane my way and made it almost impossible for you to farm. If you pay attention to when the Ori has a couple of hp minions, you can try and auto attack some melee minions, because the Ori will be busy last hitting herself (beware of the ball though). Also I didn't get the second blue buff (because Unseen hates me) and I believe you did. This allows you to spam your barrel to try to harass and farm. If you quickly clear the wave it forces me to use mana aswell to farm and since you have blue you eventually will force me back. You also could've tried to coordinate a gank with your jungler, but Shyvana is not a very good gank jungler so unless you hit a nice ult it probably would not have worked out. In the last game you just got fucked by our jungle and your early flash. We knew you didn't have flash up and Xin ganked immediately after double buffs for an easy kill. Since you didn't have flash up you should've played very very careful. You tried to stay as far away from me as possible but this forced you close to where Xin was coming to gank. In all honesty there probably wasn't a whole lot you could do about that death, but maybe call your jungler to be ready for the counter. After the first death it was easy for me to keep you off the minions and harass you. Brand is an annoying champion to play against but if you dodge his W harass, it's not that hard. I try to W when I see you go for a last hit, so keep that in mind when trying to last hit. You did very well to keep up with the CS in midgame though. I think that is also because I missed a couple of big waves and still need to get used to Brand, but still good job. I feel in the late game your charms also initialized very well, considering Shyvana was a bit hestitant to go in. I think it would be good if you looked at the VoD of Sponkz, he also gives some criticism. I'm sorry for the wall of text, but I hope it helps you a bit. I feel like Zilean just isn't a very good support. I mean the ult is godlike, but that's about it. The dmg from your bombs drop of really fast and although the slows/speedups are annoying, they are not nearly as strong as the hard CC other supports bring. And most other supports also bring extremely strong ultimates and in some cases very good early dmg as well. He is kinda like Lucian in that he does stuff that other champs can do better (in my opinion). Also I think Sponkz was hating on Zilean the champ and not necessarily how you played him :3 thanks for the reply Xango. its not that long dont worry, it just seems so. Yea my main problem I think is I push the wave too hard as Gragas. Normally it seemed fine, but in bronze I people arent like harrassing + csing, they rather do one thing  . so it was a good lesson to try to cs and avoid ur harrass while trying to attack you back. Also I watched Sponkz stream. The commentary is really nice and I liked it, he critize a lot on everyone but well its better than "oh he bought Zhonya, now ppl cant attack him for 2,5secs' type of commentary  its wat those inhouses are about. He was little harsh on their bot-lane, but I guess he is diamond1 support player, so yea, wat else could he talk about if not about smth he knows everything. Last thing: I wanna ask Sponkz or someone who watched his VODs about wat he said about my (Ahri, last game) choice of 2nd item which was Rylai's Crystal Scepter? He was thinking loud about how Jax and Xin had some stats and how my item would affect those. But I didnt quite catch what he was referring to. He also said he would have to do some math about that etc. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
I thought the Rylai's Crystal Scepter was an odd choice giving the fact that you started out with the Deathfire Grasp. For some reason, i didn't mention that i was talking about the synergy between Rylai's+Liandry's compared to the health pool of Jax and Xin. If you ever decide to go for Rylai's i'd suggest skipping DFG and getting Haunting guise early -> Liandry's later on (which is why i talked about math, because it starts being strong somewhere around 2,6k hp and upwards iirc). Since you decided for the DFG i'd much more prefer to see Zhonyas or Deathcap next, however deathcap is so inferior to zhonya's atm (invulnerability? NP STASIS OP HUE). Rylai's+Liandry's is for sustained DPS, DFG+Zhonyas is more of a bursty type of item-combination (go in with everything you got, zhonyas at the end to maintain the enemy focus towards you, where after the zhonya's stop, you run out, allowing your team to clean up). | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Xango
Netherlands17 Posts
@Promises. I have no experience playing those champs (Morgana a bit I guess) so I don't think I'll be very useful to practice against. It's probably the best if you play those champs in the inhouses and get some advice from the D1's | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Xango
Netherlands17 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
edit: I mean the tradeoff between deathcap and zhonya's is more damage, for invulnerability and you should already do enough damage prior to your 2nd completed-NLR item. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
sponkz pls On November 07 2013 19:39 Promises wrote: Would people happen to be up for some midlane matchup practise sometime? I kinda want to expand my champ pool (atm it's basically Viktor i'm most comfortable with, and after that there's a few I play but am not as familiar with; Morgana/Talon/Ziggs/Malz) and some practise with pointers would be fun =) If u want we can scrublord practice. I'm a scrublord tho. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
And that xin can gank more and better than shyv is a given. Not that I got an assist out of that, and cait would have had to b anyways cuz she was low, so I'd say the gank didn't have too much of an impact on boto overall. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:07 Dandel Ion wrote: Not that I got an assist out of that, and cait would have had to b anyways cuz she was low, so I'd say the gank didn't have too much of an impact on boto overall. The gank made me sad  I think we played the first few levels of that lane really poorly though, the first 2-3 zilean bombs we didn't split after they were cast and both took damage, and i messed up my poke several times by going forward to auto, then eating 2-3 skills in return + missing my q. But as soon as we hit 6 it felt like we took strong control of the lane. Our 2v2 is much better at that point, because (imo) lucian ult is kind of useless in small duels, and zilean can just do 300 damage then revive someone, whereas my ult can clean up after a duel, and zyra is just a dueling monster. I think we dueled at 6 when zilean overextended for a bomb, and just killed you (+ burnt zil ult). After that it was a free bottom t1 and dragon. On November 07 2013 18:09 Oproer wrote: I learned a lot from your commentary though. It's nice to hear other commentate on the mistakes I made so I can work on it. How can you not overextend against Zyra/Caitlyn though.. They have superior range on everyone... By definition it's never "worth" overextending, because overextending means you went TOO far forward. even if you get 2 bombs off, if I get 2-3 autos + a q and zyra gets an auto or 2 off, then you've lost a lot more health then the bombs did. Then I just heal off lifesteal and 10-20 seconds later I'm at full, but you're at 60% health, and your adc can no longer play as aggressively because he can't risk getting into a 2v2 fight because you're too low. I think against our lane what you had to do was just farm super passively, and try and bomb me if I ever went in for harass on lucian while zyra wasn't in position to help me. The amount of poke zilean can put down on the adc, especially at early levels, is basically negligible. unless for some reason the adc isn't running lifesteal runes, (which would be really dumb) they can just heal up the poke faster then zilean can put it down, and you're just running out of mana. The only time it would be good is if you can force an engagement before i can heal up, but your but lane had no way to force fights so that would only really be when xin is coming for a gank. You had good dive/counterdive (after lvl 6) and decent burst (lucian combo + double bomb) but you were never going to outpoke us, so trying to force bombs onto me when I wasn't overextended enough that you could do it for free was probably a mistake. (Even if we didn't punish it properly half the time.) | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On November 07 2013 18:34 Lenwe wrote: Are those ganks comparable to your amazing tower dives? lenwe pls, Sponkz said I was MVP with dat Vi, it made my night so hard I had to leave after 2nd game to have time for enough fapping before going to sleep On a more serious note, I would be down for practising sololane matchups (yeah, mid too) with you guys ; Baton and Fattyboy are down, maybe we could alternate who plays and 1 watches for outside advice? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:32 The_Unseen wrote: lenwe pls, Sponkz said I was MVP with dat Vi, it made my night so hard I had to leave after 2nd game to have time for enough fapping before going to sleep On a more serious note, I would be down for practising sololane matchups (yeah, mid too) with you guys ; Baton and Fattyboy are down, maybe we could alternate who plays and 1 watches for outside advice? Your Vi was so damn annoying. I was getting more and more frustrated that game because of that + my TS didn't work. I'm happy I still managed to keep up with Malp, soloing him once or twice and getting his tower though | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On November 08 2013 00:51 Dandel Ion wrote: unseen pls, we all know you left because I raped you in lane yet again Dandel pls, I seem to remember your Jax wanted to "trap" us in river banana bush and lost your team the game after we cleaned you guys up. top 3 decision making npnp | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 08 2013 01:14 EquilasH wrote: Your Vi was so damn annoying. I was getting more and more frustrated that game because of that + my TS didn't work. I'm happy I still managed to keep up with Malp, soloing him once or twice and getting his tower though soren pls, you failed cus of the pressure  | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
The initial analysis of Sponkz might have been too harsh and i agree that there is a sense in which you did not get dominated. You kept up in farm okayish and you didn't really feed us (we got like 3(?) kills in the first 15 minutes). In the early game the bombs and the Lucian q did good damage and I had to back rather frequently. On the other hand there is a sense in which you got dominated. You barely had any pressure on our turret and lost your turret at the 14 minute mark, whereas our turret was alive until the 23rd minute (when the laning phase was long over). You may be reluctant to call this dominating, but whatever you want to call it, there was no point in lane when it felt like you could win the lane. The problem now is this: Mid- and lategame Zilean does not do much besides the ultimate. The bomb damage is significant in the early game, but falls off later on. You have to capitalise on it early on, which you did not do (and I think is really difficult to do against Cait/Zyra). If we go even into the teamfights Zyra (and most common supports) will just bring more into them than Zilean. Both in utility and damage. Zilean needs to win lane, so everytime you only go even or (slightly) lose the lane, you are in a bad spot. On a sidenote: In the vod I saw that Zilean was really underleveled lategame (lvl 14 to the 18 of everyone else at the end). I think if you notice you falling behind in xp you should just join your adc or jax when they push a sidelane. Or maybe even take some farm yourself. Level 3 ultimate would have been useful. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4990 Posts
Peeano - Rank and division Silver III - If you are a lowbie (Gold or below), include what position you would be interested in working on. (List two) ADC + Support - For each role, identify two champions you wish to improve on ADC: Twitch, Ashe Support: Fiddlesticks, Alistar | ||
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