EPTsponkz, second half of game 2 + game 3: http://www.twitch.tv/sponkz/b/477291137
-game 3 starts at around 31 minutes in.
scip: all three games I think: http://www.twitch.tv/scipaeus/b/477270580
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish - Page 24
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
sponkz, second half of game 2 + game 3: http://www.twitch.tv/sponkz/b/477291137 -game 3 starts at around 31 minutes in. scip: all three games I think: http://www.twitch.tv/scipaeus/b/477270580 | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
 I need to play more bruisers  Too scared when engaging from playing ADC so much. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
I know my vocal English gets rather sloppy when i speed up my talking (too excited T_T), but please enlighten me if I'm too bias or miss valuable points through the game(s) EDIT: also i loved the duo commentary in game 1 and 2, it was really fun!!! | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Also I hope my Zyra play at least partially redeemed my terrible Caitlyn :/ | ||
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koziol
Poland768 Posts
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Oproer
Netherlands108 Posts
Good commentary though. You should next time probably go in another channel so you can commentate on the end of the match as well | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 07 2013 08:43 Oproer wrote: I'm watching the commentary on tonight's matches and Sponkz seems to really hate Zilean.. I think I did pretty well on him. I am Silver league and that's probably not as good as many other players that were in the match. You judge though him as if he's the AP but he's the support. I think with the slow/speed on his E you can prevent a lot of dives or initiations and the ultimate also prevents the enemy team from going in if they catch one person out of position since he could just be revived. Good commentary though. You should next time probably go in another channel so you can commentate on the end of the match as well I feel like his early laning was actually really weak though. I (and maybe prog, dunno) am not used to laning vs zilean, so i played it a lot safer then i probably should have, but i feel like we could just have straight up killed you several times between level 2 and 5. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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koziol
Poland768 Posts
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Xango
Netherlands17 Posts
On November 07 2013 08:00 koziol wrote: I wanna hear smth about my midlane from Xango or Evelynn when she was vs me (Gragas, game 2; sorry I dont remember who was it). wat did I do wrong? any obvious mistakes? both games vs Xango I got harassed so well I couldnt cs. I also think my barrels were quite bad cus I threw them and they didnt kill minions instntly and then before I could use another barrel minions were dead from AA from other minions. I dunno I still learn to lane as him and Ahri. In the first game I was playing Ori vs your Gragas, which is quite a hard lane for Gragas in the early levels. If you try to last hit with auto attacks you will just get harassed to death by Ori, so I feel like your best option is to let the lane push and last hit under your turret. With Gragas his W giving extra AD last hitting under the turret is a breeze and it's way harder for the Ori to harass you. You tried to farm minions with your barrel from the start, which pushed the lane my way and made it almost impossible for you to farm. If you pay attention to when the Ori has a couple of hp minions, you can try and auto attack some melee minions, because the Ori will be busy last hitting herself (beware of the ball though). Also I didn't get the second blue buff (because Unseen hates me) and I believe you did. This allows you to spam your barrel to try to harass and farm. If you quickly clear the wave it forces me to use mana aswell to farm and since you have blue you eventually will force me back. You also could've tried to coordinate a gank with your jungler, but Shyvana is not a very good gank jungler so unless you hit a nice ult it probably would not have worked out. In the last game you just got fucked by our jungle and your early flash. We knew you didn't have flash up and Xin ganked immediately after double buffs for an easy kill. Since you didn't have flash up you should've played very very careful. You tried to stay as far away from me as possible but this forced you close to where Xin was coming to gank. In all honesty there probably wasn't a whole lot you could do about that death, but maybe call your jungler to be ready for the counter. After the first death it was easy for me to keep you off the minions and harass you. Brand is an annoying champion to play against but if you dodge his W harass, it's not that hard. I try to W when I see you go for a last hit, so keep that in mind when trying to last hit. You did very well to keep up with the CS in midgame though. I think that is also because I missed a couple of big waves and still need to get used to Brand, but still good job. I feel in the late game your charms also initialized very well, considering Shyvana was a bit hestitant to go in. I think it would be good if you looked at the VoD of Sponkz, he also gives some criticism. I'm sorry for the wall of text, but I hope it helps you a bit. On November 07 2013 08:43 Oproer wrote: I'm watching the commentary on tonight's matches and Sponkz seems to really hate Zilean.. I think I did pretty well on him. I am Silver league and that's probably not as good as many other players that were in the match. You judge though him as if he's the AP but he's the support. I think with the slow/speed on his E you can prevent a lot of dives or initiations and the ultimate also prevents the enemy team from going in if they catch one person out of position since he could just be revived. I feel like Zilean just isn't a very good support. I mean the ult is godlike, but that's about it. The dmg from your bombs drop of really fast and although the slows/speedups are annoying, they are not nearly as strong as the hard CC other supports bring. And most other supports also bring extremely strong ultimates and in some cases very good early dmg as well. He is kinda like Lucian in that he does stuff that other champs can do better (in my opinion). Also I think Sponkz was hating on Zilean the champ and not necessarily how you played him :3 | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 07 2013 08:43 Oproer wrote: I'm watching the commentary on tonight's matches and Sponkz seems to really hate Zilean.. I think I did pretty well on him. I am Silver league and that's probably not as good as many other players that were in the match. You judge though him as if he's the AP but he's the support. I think with the slow/speed on his E you can prevent a lot of dives or initiations and the ultimate also prevents the enemy team from going in if they catch one person out of position since he could just be revived. Good commentary though. You should next time probably go in another channel so you can commentate on the end of the match as well Yoyo, some clarification here! I actually like Zilean very much as the overall champion that he is. It was very bias of me to bash your choice of support, but look from my perspective (i also talk about this throughout the game, although not in a full one go): - Zilean scales insanely well with items, you don'´t have that choice as support at the moment - Zilean's base scaling pretty much stops from level 9 and onward (rank 5 Q is your only damage source) - The bombs does unnecessary pushing in laning phase, a huge minus since you want your AD Carry to control the lane - Looking at Zilean's kit you can only do a double bomb, Slow an enemy or MSPD boost an ally and use your ultimate. This just isn't enough looking from other supports perspective. Nearly every support at the moment just have a way better kit overall; Zyra has good base damage and CC, Lulu has insane utility and CC, Nami has great CC etc. -> Zilean doesn´t work as a support. He IS a good champion, but you should consider playing him in the mid-lane, giving your that sweet farm which enhances your bomb damage and gives you more health/mana for the people you revive with your ultimate. - The overall combination of Zilean/Lucian didn´t fit your team composition in general (which also gives me more reason to bash the pick(s)), however you shouldn't take this personal. I look at this from an elitist perspective being Mr. "know-it-all", but you gotta remember that Zilean has never seen any competitive play as a support! Imagine how beast your team composition would've been with someone like Taric (Taric stun into Xin/Jax jumping onto your target), Leona (mass hard-CC) or even Thresh (hook initiate into Xin/Jax engage). Zilean didn´t fit anywhere, he only provides ONE good thing and that´s his ultimate, which simply isn't enough to justify running him as a support instead of AP Carry. @Killahdog i'll try to fix the sound modifications | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
(Obviously to play support Viktor) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Oproer
Netherlands108 Posts
I didn't like how you kept bringing up that you didn't like him in the commentary. If you say once why you don't like him, or doubt the decision to pick him that is enough in my opinion and after that you can be supportive and see how it works out. That's how the LCS guys do it as well. I learned a lot from your commentary though. It's nice to hear other commentate on the mistakes I made so I can work on it. How can you not overextend against Zyra/Caitlyn though.. They have superior range on everyone... | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
Thank god I missed that one Also, I do love you Xango, I just like my lvl 7 ganks into drakes better | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 07 2013 17:50 Alaric wrote: Isn't Zilean's speed-up quite good to let champions like Jax and Xin get in range and stick, since it's pretty much a mini-ghost once you put points in it? Yes, but it doesn't make it a proper initiation tool regardless. It's a niche tool that works nicely, but it will only function as a mini-ghost sadly >_> On November 07 2013 18:09 Oproer wrote: I don't think you were criticizing my play on Zilean. I just disagree that he is a weak pick. Maybe I am not good enough to bring out his potential but he is the champion I am most comfortable with. I didn't like how you kept bringing up that you didn't like him in the commentary. If you say once why you don't like him, or doubt the decision to pick him that is enough in my opinion and after that you can be supportive and see how it works out. That's how the LCS guys do it as well. I learned a lot from your commentary though. It's nice to hear other commentate on the mistakes I made so I can work on it. How can you not overextend against Zyra/Caitlyn though.. They have superior range on everyone... You should play what you prefer to play. My biggest influence for the critique is that Zilean support is something i personally consider a "bad game knowledge" choice of champion (especially because you picked him for a support) - Rather than focusing on playing inside your comfort-zone, maybe next time you can try out supports that overall supports and synergize more properly with your team composition. This also leads to my next point: Zyra/Caitlyn is a heavy poke lane. Their strenghts lie in their ability to do heavy zoning with Caitlyn traps and Zyra seeds while also being punishing with Zyra root -> Caitlyn Q. This may seem hard to counter (especially because Caitlyn is such a fucking pain with her 625 range) but fear not here comes the solution ! Lulu/Varus - This lane focuses heavily on counter-poking. If Caitlyn overextends too hard, Lulu shields Varus -> Varus fires Q and Lulu fires her Q from Varus' position, if both hits Caitlyn will lose the trade incredibly easy. Now the hard part is how to deal with Zyra. At some point in the commentary i probably mention that Lulu is a very excellent choice for your team composition overall, but Lulu is also a strong bully against Zyra. The missile speed on Zyra root is rather slow, and IF Zyra misses the root, Lulu has an interval of roughly 5-8 seconds where you can land your E, throw out a Q (double Q if you got da skillz) making them lose trades significantly. Now if you had run Lulu/Varus you could have had engagement tool (varus ult) into Lulu ultimate on either Jax or Xin, making it rather difficult for the enemy double assassin composition (ahri+akali) to burst anyone. Sona/Ezreal: Safest lane to counter a heavy poke lane. Ezreal farms from range with Q, Sona has counter-poking tools with her Q and W-powerchord and their engagement post-6 with ultimates is pretty sick. The overall team composition would suffer abit here though; Sona+Jax and Sona+Brand is pretty darn sweet, but Xin Zhao knocks people away, so if your Crescendo hits 2-3 people and Xin Zhao then tries to follow up on the initation and throw 1-2 away from you, the Ezreal ultimate won't be hitting enough people, and the whole purpose of your bot-lane "wombo combo" would be gone. This can however work, if your Xin Zhao is aware of this! Regarding the commentary I'm not aiming for anything alike LCS standards. All they ever talk about is play-by-play and minor analytic facts, which i personally don't think these inhouses are suited for. There will be bashing, i will probably piss off quite a few people in the process, but i don't do it as a personal hetz, but because the truth is the only thing that helps in this world. | ||
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Lenwe
Netherlands757 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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