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[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 271

Forum Index > LoL General
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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 21 2013 05:34 GMT
#5401
On October 21 2013 14:30 MattBarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 14:06 FinestHour wrote:
On October 21 2013 14:02 iCanada wrote:
On October 21 2013 14:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On October 21 2013 13:17 iCanada wrote:
On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:
On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:
On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:
On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially.


Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid?

Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too.

Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler.


Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength).

The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is.

On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:
On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially.


Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently?


Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes.


Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never.

Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either.

Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ.


Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support

You're suggesting to put Caitlyn in a 1v2 top lane and you fail to see how this is exactly the same thing as playing a 2v2 without a support. Sure, you still have a duo lane somewhere else but you're putting an ADC in a 1v2 vs a support/ADC and that's what I'm talking about.

If it's too hard for you to understand perhaps I can explain it with pictures, let me know if it's hard to grasp.


Im just saying it has never been tried... I think it could be a good counter to like fast push comps, split push comps you know.

Thats all I am saying.


you ever have those games where youre adc and u go bot lane and then suddenly your supp disconnects then the enemy duo lane goes ham on you and you die a lot
now picture that in top lane instead

Everytime I see a Cait with no support they manage to farm just fine unless they're getting dove by their jungler because you cannot zone Cait from farm.

Your level =! optimal top tier play.
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 05:41:29
October 21 2013 05:39 GMT
#5402
I've done 1v2s as Cait before when I was just starting. It wasn't that bad back then but nowadays people are very aggressive and there were scary lanes. Even Cait vs Lux gets scary because burst can get kills while poke just forces people off creeps. With 2 people in lane, a single Thresh hook can spell your death.

Through my experiences I don't think Cait can do 1v2 lanes well against good players. She can keep the tower up longer but if they want the tower they'll probably get it eventually, or they can go back to the S2 style of zoning her from creeps. I think it might be better to have Cait take a 1v2 and try some fancy stuff in other lanes like have the support go with botlane Jax.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 05:44:30
October 21 2013 05:42 GMT
#5403
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)
BW -> League -> CSGO
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 21 2013 05:43 GMT
#5404
5hit must have taken drawing lessons from Dyrus, dayum
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 05:55:06
October 21 2013 05:47 GMT
#5405
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)


iono my build works just fine for me in plat so im sticking with my zeal double dipping
on burb king
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
October 21 2013 06:01 GMT
#5406
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)

A BFS gives 45 AD all game long, and it will fuck shit up when gotten early too. Why is Shiv special?
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
October 21 2013 06:03 GMT
#5407
On October 21 2013 14:00 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 13:54 Cloud9157 wrote:
On October 21 2013 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose.


dat generalization

dat true generalization


pls

whenever you get caitlyn you need to build her ap. same with poppy.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 21 2013 06:06 GMT
#5408
On October 21 2013 14:17 zer0das wrote:
Why does your rendition of summoner's rift have so many penises on it? Serious question.



Still looking for this answer. Scrolled back up and nearly spit out my beer when I looked at the drawing again.
TheHumanSensation
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1210 Posts
October 21 2013 06:07 GMT
#5409
Aside from build path and such, it offers harassment opportunities that don't exist with BF sword via marginally extended range as well as the movespeed to support this kind of play pattern. I'm not arguing in favour of it over a BF, but the two are typically my first two items on every AD (maybe I play poorly by this method though, and I'm open to arguments against it), and the item just feels so wonderfully cohesive in and of itself that I probably favour it for non-game reasons.
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 21 2013 06:26 GMT
#5410
Trynd's spin also decreases the time between procs if I'm not mistaken. That's a lot of damage early game.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
October 21 2013 06:26 GMT
#5411
On October 21 2013 15:01 thenexusp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)

A BFS gives 45 AD all game long, and it will fuck shit up when gotten early too. Why is Shiv special?

That one champ I've been doing shiv on early is trist. Take Trist, max E push lane all day with insane wave clear. Go dorans dorans pick or dorans pick into shiv or if you're getting wrecked dorans dorans vamp shiv.

Whenever they try to farm when minions aren't at tower they will probably take shiv and explosive shot hits. When you want to harass you can auto E them if it crits then they take around 300 damage just from the auto. Push to tower take towers and harass. Helps Trist's mid game so much. Tanked 2 tower shots and killed a cait with pick bf 2 dorans when i had shiv 2 dorans pick (I realize that I had more gold but tanking two tower shots at around level 6/7 is quite a bit). I even got a quadra with trist around level 8 because I was able to get lightning and resets on everyone in a fight.
BW -> League -> CSGO
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 21 2013 06:27 GMT
#5412
On October 21 2013 15:01 thenexusp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)

A BFS gives 45 AD all game long, and it will fuck shit up when gotten early too. Why is Shiv special?

because Shiv doesn't scale with pen, and it scales poorly with auto attack speed (since running stacks it up faster)
liftlift > tsm
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 06:42:24
October 21 2013 06:42 GMT
#5413
On October 21 2013 15:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 15:01 thenexusp wrote:
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)

A BFS gives 45 AD all game long, and it will fuck shit up when gotten early too. Why is Shiv special?

because Shiv doesn't scale with pen, and it scales poorly with auto attack speed (since running stacks it up faster)

do you mean because it doesn't stack quickly while attacking? how fast it stacks while running isn't really relevant to how well it scales with autos, it could just not have the movement thing at all and it would scale about as well with right clicks
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 06:56:15
October 21 2013 06:45 GMT
#5414
shiv gives tryn a power spike that a PD simply doesn't match at that timing. While at the 4/5 item timing a PD is better than shiv, when you're just sitting on blade, shiv does more. Being able to get two shiv procs fairly easily in a short span of time makes it a superior item despite not scaling as well into the post IE stage.

Also on the cait 1v2 thing, I highly doubt it would work. Most duo lanes supports are already such insane threats at low levels in terms of burst that they could single handedly zone you off of creeps. Take sona for example. With a power chord ready, and bushes to hide in, she will burst you for a third of your health or more if you try to CS.Thresh could force summoners out of you with a single well aimed hook, and second means death. Or even just flash flay Q for pretty much a 100% Q/flash out of you.

Cait is also not a very good kill threat, even with a jungler present. 2v2, with most jungler's the other duo might be even, unlike with a lee+renek for example.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 21 2013 07:02 GMT
#5415
On October 21 2013 15:42 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 15:27 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 21 2013 15:01 thenexusp wrote:
On October 21 2013 14:42 wussleeQ wrote:
Shiv will do 100 damage all game long. That 100 damage when shiv is gotten early will fuck shit up. That 100 damage when it crits will fuck even more shit up. Just something to think about ;] (Been going early shiv on one of my ad's lately and has not disappointed)

A BFS gives 45 AD all game long, and it will fuck shit up when gotten early too. Why is Shiv special?

because Shiv doesn't scale with pen, and it scales poorly with auto attack speed (since running stacks it up faster)

do you mean because it doesn't stack quickly while attacking? how fast it stacks while running isn't really relevant to how well it scales with autos, it could just not have the movement thing at all and it would scale about as well with right clicks

I'm just saying it scales awkwardly with auto attacks, and not exponentially like regular AD.
liftlift > tsm
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23442 Posts
October 21 2013 07:29 GMT
#5416
On October 21 2013 01:58 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 01:56 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 21 2013 01:54 Infundibulum wrote:
Nami owns on the bridge. Heals, buff your AA carry, stun, ezpz 5 man tidal waves.

Problem is her ratios are shit so building ap sorta sucks


That doesn't stop Sona.


doesn'ts stop sona building ap?

yes, yes it does
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
October 21 2013 07:33 GMT
#5417
er, sona builds AP on ARAM

O_o
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23442 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 07:35:58
October 21 2013 07:35 GMT
#5418
cdr and chalice should be much higher priority at which point normally sona buys only wards but on aram sure stack dat ap because you hit your spells so often that its like yea who gives a fuq
namis ap ratios are decent too on aram because of the bounce
ItsFunToLose
Profile Joined December 2010
United States776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 07:48:55
October 21 2013 07:41 GMT
#5419
On October 21 2013 12:53 RagequitBM wrote:


Also I think Vayne is a really strong pick against Jinx for anyone wondering what to pick against her. Tumble makes zap basically a non-factor, and condemn is really good as it lets you hit her twice, then back off until her AS bonus runs out, then re-engage.


jinx dumpsters vayne about as hard as caitlyn does. Q level 1 and just poke her every time she goes for a cs. you are shoving the wave, and keeping her from dorans lifestealing until under tower, at which point you continue to harass her for every cs she goes for.

it comes down to support picks and skill to determine how far behind vayne ends up, but she doesn't go even, let alone win the lane in any conceivable matchup.

Edit: @below

Are the jinx's using ranged Q form to harass you aggressively from level 1 immediately?
"skillshots are inherently out of your control whether they hit or not" -PrinceXizor
RagequitBM
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada2270 Posts
October 21 2013 07:46 GMT
#5420
Weird. Maybe I'm just playing bad jinxes. I have yet to lose to a Jinx as Vayne. Or even have any difficulty whatsoever.
Twitch.tv/Ragequitbm for all the fans
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