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Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid?
you hear people raging against riot "designing for the meta" and then read stuff like this, lol
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On October 21 2013 11:59 Shikyo wrote:
I think that with jungler assistance the 1v2 difficulty is possible to be lessened enough to make more champions viable than are being played. Jax is a good example, he used to be thought to completely suck 1v2 but he's not that bad at all. (periods of safe lasthitting and he has incredible gank assist).
But you have to have a champion that is worth babysitting to make babysitting worthwhile (aka Jax). Otherwise its better to just pick Renekton/Shen and do fine on your own. On top of that, you need to remember that these champions aren't always going to be 1v2, so even if something random like Urgot or Brand was a 1v2 beast, the other team can invest a little extra into vision lvl 1 and get the 1v1. So, essentially, 2v1 meta is a Rock-Paper-Scissors if you pick something interesting that could counter it.
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ADC is tooooooooo hard looool. It literally feels (unless I'm playing Cait/Corki with a good TF timing) I'm either spending the entire fight 1) running away/kiting an assassin/initiators and/or 2) tickling their tank (Malph/Shen/Nasus) even with a BT+Shiv/PD vs. their Sunfire/Tabi's/Omen etc.
More likely poor positioning on my part causes problem 1 at least.
I dunno how DLift makes ADC'ing in solo q look so ez.
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On October 21 2013 12:26 sung_moon wrote:
ADC is tooooooooo hard looool. It literally feels (unless I'm playing Cait/Corki with a good TF timing) I'm either spending the entire fight 1) running away/kiting an assassin/initiators and/or 2) tickling their tank (Malph/Shen/Nasus) even with a BT+Shiv/PD vs. their Sunfire/Tabi's/Omen etc.
More likely poor positioning on my part causes problem 1 at least.
I dunno how DLift makes ADC'ing in solo q look so ez.
Sound like 2 is an occasion for the Legolas.
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On October 21 2013 12:26 sung_moon wrote:
ADC is tooooooooo hard looool. It literally feels (unless I'm playing Cait/Corki with a good TF timing) I'm either spending the entire fight 1) running away/kiting an assassin/initiators and/or 2) tickling their tank (Malph/Shen/Nasus) even with a BT+Shiv/PD vs. their Sunfire/Tabi's/Omen etc.
More likely poor positioning on my part causes problem 1 at least.
I dunno how DLift makes ADC'ing in solo q look so ez.
Cuz DLift is a fucking god. Oh fed solo laners that can burst you down with one spell? guess what the secret is to playing against that? just don't get hit by any spells while being able to leash range everything. It's literally playing on a razer's edge.
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On October 21 2013 07:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 03:05 TigerKarl wrote:
Nami is the best Support champon in aram, even before Aura Sona. Phantastic battle heal, Multi Person stun with a relatively low cooldown and a low cooldown ulti that can be used every teamfight, when you're at 40% CDR, and that's supposed to happen pretty early. Disagree. Leona with gold makes for a stupid strong tank. Super CC, much sunfire, very ouch. Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 05:25 Fusilero wrote:On October 21 2013 05:15 Sufficiency wrote:On October 21 2013 05:13 wei2coolman wrote:On October 21 2013 04:50 Sufficiency wrote:
BTW bad scaling does not imply bad on ARAM. See Alistar. Alistar scales with defensive items really hard, if you get alistar againsy moatly AP team, sv is op'd opening item on him. Also triforce burst on him is wack as fuck. Triforce burst on alistar is wack as fuck is like saying Triforce on Karthus is wack as fuck. Alistar is strong because his E is broken in ARAM. AP alistar is the only way to play aram alistar. CDR heal bot. Don't need to build anything after that because the game is over.
Janna can win games by herself and Taric/Leona with items is so dumb it's not funny. Personally I think Janna is the strongest ARAM champ period and all supports are top 20.
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I actually completely agree. Dlift somehow manages to win a fight against a 5 - 0 Zed as Vayne. I try, end up getting owned only dealing about 50% of his hp in damage. I don't understand.
Also I think Vayne is a really strong pick against Jinx for anyone wondering what to pick against her. Tumble makes zap basically a non-factor, and condemn is really good as it lets you hit her twice, then back off until her AS bonus runs out, then re-engage.
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Also on topic of Shiv vs PD, I only get PD if I go IE first and only on Caitlyn in situations where I don't need LW.
So, basically never...
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On October 21 2013 12:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 07:27 Gahlo wrote:On October 21 2013 03:05 TigerKarl wrote:
Nami is the best Support champon in aram, even before Aura Sona. Phantastic battle heal, Multi Person stun with a relatively low cooldown and a low cooldown ulti that can be used every teamfight, when you're at 40% CDR, and that's supposed to happen pretty early. Disagree. Leona with gold makes for a stupid strong tank. Super CC, much sunfire, very ouch. On October 21 2013 05:25 Fusilero wrote:On October 21 2013 05:15 Sufficiency wrote:On October 21 2013 05:13 wei2coolman wrote:On October 21 2013 04:50 Sufficiency wrote:
BTW bad scaling does not imply bad on ARAM. See Alistar. Alistar scales with defensive items really hard, if you get alistar againsy moatly AP team, sv is op'd opening item on him. Also triforce burst on him is wack as fuck. Triforce burst on alistar is wack as fuck is like saying Triforce on Karthus is wack as fuck. Alistar is strong because his E is broken in ARAM. AP alistar is the only way to play aram alistar. CDR heal bot. Don't need to build anything after that because the game is over. Janna can win games by herself and Taric/Leona with items is so dumb it's not funny. Personally I think Janna is the strongest ARAM champ period and all supports are top 20.
1 shotting waves from 2 screens away, giant shields on towers. It's not that she wins games, it's just that she makes it impossible for her team to lose
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On October 21 2013 12:57 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 12:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 07:27 Gahlo wrote:On October 21 2013 03:05 TigerKarl wrote:
Nami is the best Support champon in aram, even before Aura Sona. Phantastic battle heal, Multi Person stun with a relatively low cooldown and a low cooldown ulti that can be used every teamfight, when you're at 40% CDR, and that's supposed to happen pretty early. Disagree. Leona with gold makes for a stupid strong tank. Super CC, much sunfire, very ouch. On October 21 2013 05:25 Fusilero wrote:On October 21 2013 05:15 Sufficiency wrote:On October 21 2013 05:13 wei2coolman wrote:On October 21 2013 04:50 Sufficiency wrote:
BTW bad scaling does not imply bad on ARAM. See Alistar. Alistar scales with defensive items really hard, if you get alistar againsy moatly AP team, sv is op'd opening item on him. Also triforce burst on him is wack as fuck. Triforce burst on alistar is wack as fuck is like saying Triforce on Karthus is wack as fuck. Alistar is strong because his E is broken in ARAM. AP alistar is the only way to play aram alistar. CDR heal bot. Don't need to build anything after that because the game is over. Janna can win games by herself and Taric/Leona with items is so dumb it's not funny. Personally I think Janna is the strongest ARAM champ period and all supports are top 20. 1 shotting waves from 2 screens away, giant shields on towers. It's not that she wins games, it's just that she makes it impossible for her team to lose
That's the highest form of win imo
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On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes.
Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never.
Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either.
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United States47024 Posts
The problem with Caitlyn 1v2 is that it's not very compelling to have a Caitlyn that's that underfarmed midgame, compared to a laner that will accomplish less and get less farm, but will do more in that underfarmed state due to more inherent usefulness from their kit.
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you guys are crazy, sona is by far the best ARAM supporter.
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On October 21 2013 12:57 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 12:57 SagaZ wrote:On October 21 2013 12:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 07:27 Gahlo wrote:On October 21 2013 03:05 TigerKarl wrote:
Nami is the best Support champon in aram, even before Aura Sona. Phantastic battle heal, Multi Person stun with a relatively low cooldown and a low cooldown ulti that can be used every teamfight, when you're at 40% CDR, and that's supposed to happen pretty early. Disagree. Leona with gold makes for a stupid strong tank. Super CC, much sunfire, very ouch. On October 21 2013 05:25 Fusilero wrote:On October 21 2013 05:15 Sufficiency wrote:On October 21 2013 05:13 wei2coolman wrote:On October 21 2013 04:50 Sufficiency wrote:
BTW bad scaling does not imply bad on ARAM. See Alistar. Alistar scales with defensive items really hard, if you get alistar againsy moatly AP team, sv is op'd opening item on him. Also triforce burst on him is wack as fuck. Triforce burst on alistar is wack as fuck is like saying Triforce on Karthus is wack as fuck. Alistar is strong because his E is broken in ARAM. AP alistar is the only way to play aram alistar. CDR heal bot. Don't need to build anything after that because the game is over. Janna can win games by herself and Taric/Leona with items is so dumb it's not funny. Personally I think Janna is the strongest ARAM champ period and all supports are top 20. 1 shotting waves from 2 screens away, giant shields on towers. It's not that she wins games, it's just that she makes it impossible for her team to lose That's the highest form of win imo
yeah but where's the glory swag and the pentakills? you don't play aram to win, you play aram to have fun and 1 shot people with random champions
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this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose.
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On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either.
How is Caitlyn particularly adept at protecting the tower at lvl 1 vs 2 lvl 2/3 characters?
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On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either.
Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ.
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On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ.
Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support
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On October 21 2013 13:01 Complete wrote:
you guys are crazy, sona is by far the best ARAM supporter.
Pretty sure Janna is at least 2 tiers above everybody else in ARAM (at least in terms of supports here).
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On October 21 2013 13:14 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. How is Caitlyn particularly adept at protecting the tower at lvl 1 vs 2 lvl 2/3 characters?
She can pretty well two shot a wave with Q at level 1. How they going to dive you or take your tower with no creeps?
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EPT
