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On October 21 2013 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose.
yeah I know, wtf do you think I'm doing right now?
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On October 21 2013 13:21 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose. yeah I know, wtf do you think I'm doing right now?
my bad <_<
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Sona is superior to Janna. Who cares about shields and waveclear when you're busy putting out a Lichbane proc for 500 magic damage on cooldown. If you even get to lichbane, which probably isn't necessary because Sona is pretty much the queen bitch of ARAM with Heimer as her king.
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I think Pantheon's passive needs to scale or be reprogrammed. Currently when it gets later on in the game your passive gets proc'd by minions... I think the programming is set such that it doesn't take armor/mr into account or something? That's the only thing I can think of.
Fighting in minions late game can sometimes screw with your passive.
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On October 21 2013 13:18 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:01 Complete wrote:
you guys are crazy, sona is by far the best ARAM supporter. Pretty sure Janna is at least 2 tiers above everybody else in ARAM (at least in terms of supports here).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SQRY4QQ.png)
I know winrates aren't everything. Some of these guys have targeted nerfs against them just on aram map (looking at you heimer). Can't find the nerfs though. Maybe they don't exist.
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I've never lost a game as Sona on ARAM. I don't know if it's possible.
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On October 21 2013 13:19 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:14 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. How is Caitlyn particularly adept at protecting the tower at lvl 1 vs 2 lvl 2/3 characters? She can pretty well two shot a wave with Q at level 1. How they going to dive you or take your tower with no creeps?
Deny, massive wave, push, the minions alone would kill cait if she autoattacks. She gets 1 piltover while the minions come parading in, if shes lucky.
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Is there somewhere I can see the percentage of games in which items are picked? I'd imagine that the least common items would be like ohmwrecker, banner of command, eleisa's miracle, executioner's calling, rageblade and sword of the occult (not including champion-specific items) . It'd be interesting the see the percentages and stuff, though.
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On October 21 2013 13:18 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:01 Complete wrote:
you guys are crazy, sona is by far the best ARAM supporter. Pretty sure Janna is at least 2 tiers above everybody else in ARAM (at least in terms of supports here).
Janna is really strong, but it's actually Sona who's a tier above her. Sona's winrate is nearly 70% versus Janna's 60%, with good reason.
Janna's problem is that eventually creep waves and turret shields don't matter, provided the enemy team has a single tank. If at that point Janna + 4 isn't sufficient to win teamfights her team will often lose.
Again, she's still awesome, but Sona beats her out because Sona's engage/counter-engage and general usefulness is just better.
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On October 21 2013 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose.
dat generalization
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On October 21 2013 13:54 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
this is TL, you play aram to win but pretend you don't, then you look down on people who don't know how to have fun and "care" if they win or lose. dat generalization
dat true generalization
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On October 21 2013 13:17 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ. Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support
You're suggesting to put Caitlyn in a 1v2 top lane and you fail to see how this is exactly the same thing as playing a 2v2 without a support. Sure, you still have a duo lane somewhere else but you're putting an ADC in a 1v2 vs a support/ADC and that's what I'm talking about.
If it's too hard for you to understand perhaps I can explain it with pictures, let me know if it's hard to grasp.
[edit]
+ Show Spoiler [Visual Aid] +[/edit]
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On October 21 2013 14:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 13:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ. Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support You're suggesting to put Caitlyn in a 1v2 top lane and you fail to see how this is exactly the same thing as playing a 2v2 without a support. Sure, you still have a duo lane somewhere else but you're putting an ADC in a 1v2 vs a support/ADC and that's what I'm talking about. If it's too hard for you to understand perhaps I can explain it with pictures, let me know if it's hard to grasp.
Im just saying it has never been tried... I think it could be a good counter to like fast push comps, split push comps you know.
Thats all I am saying.
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On October 21 2013 14:02 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 14:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 13:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ. Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support You're suggesting to put Caitlyn in a 1v2 top lane and you fail to see how this is exactly the same thing as playing a 2v2 without a support. Sure, you still have a duo lane somewhere else but you're putting an ADC in a 1v2 vs a support/ADC and that's what I'm talking about. If it's too hard for you to understand perhaps I can explain it with pictures, let me know if it's hard to grasp. Im just saying it has never been tried... I think it could be a good counter to like fast push comps, split push comps you know. Thats all I am saying.
you ever have those games where youre adc and u go bot lane and then suddenly your supp disconnects then the enemy duo lane goes ham on you and you die a lot
now picture that in top lane instead
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I added pictures, maybe it's easier for you to understand what I'm saying
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Oh wait, in TOP lane??? Yeah you're right that has never been tried before, let me see if I have any visual demonstrations that might help me understand it.
Okay after lots of searching I found some, you're right it's different:
This is what it looks like in bot lane
+ Show Spoiler [Visual Aid] +
And now this is what it looks like in top lane
+ Show Spoiler [Visual Aid] +
I think we should discuss this further because it's a bit confusing. It might be good though?
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Why does your rendition of summoner's rift have so many penises on it? Serious question.
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On October 21 2013 14:17 zer0das wrote:
Why does your rendition of summoner's rift have so many penises on it? Serious question.
?
are we even playing the same game here
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Seriously, if keeping waves off turrets actually worked at lvl 1 people would pick Cassio, Anivia, Galio, Janna, Karma, etc and it would work just as well, and you wouldn't have a character that is useless till 25+ mins in.
Or, you could pick Gragas, because he is the best at this theoretical anti-pushing at lvl 1, hell, he is what you pick when you plan to 2v1 the enemy mid.
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On October 21 2013 14:06 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 14:02 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 14:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 13:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 13:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On October 21 2013 12:58 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On October 21 2013 11:17 iCanada wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Is that solution really to make 2v1 not viable? or is the solution to just run with it and create top laners that can fend for themselves mid? Or hell, why not send a Caitlyn top to 1v2? No one has tried. I think she'd do well, no one can really push with her, and she could certainly get farm safely. If you gave a Sivir a blue buff I'm sure she'd do damn well too. Then you could have a roamer like Alistar as well as a jungler. Cait 1v2? Kidding? Easy to dive, easy to zone (duo stands in your minion line), little gank assist, putting her 2v1 means she is significantly behind for early tower pushes (Cait's main strength). The problem with the solution of new laners who can live 2v1 is #1. Need to remake like half the cast, and #2. That strength doesn't translate to soloqueue so it splits the meta even more than it already is. On October 21 2013 11:19 schmutttt wrote:On October 21 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
To be fair, 2v1 did, and continues to, shrink the viable toplane pool substantially. Isn't jax one of the worst 1v2 laners yet has seen a lot more play recently? Jax is pretty hard to dive 2v1 or 3v2, so you need to do a 3v1 dive, but everyone dies to that. He also is decent at farming under tower, and is able to catch up better than most other toplanes. Okay, but how are you going to push a tower against a caitlyn? Sure you be wicked behind in farm, but who they will never get your tower. You'll grab theirs npnp, and then suddenly their 2v1 failed epically. Sure you can zone caitlyn, stop her from getting gold, but get her tower? Never. Add flash, barrier, and a bunch of traps at Caits tower, I dont think she that easy to dive either. Are you seriously suggesting to play a 2v2 lane without a support? It's pretty easy to see why that is a horrible idea. The idea against this strategy would not be to push towers down but to freefarm and deny Caitlyn levels until the 2v1's adc could 1v1 Cait and then suddenly you have a roaming support + freefarm for your adc + a completely useless enemy champ. Never said that. Just wopuld have like Bruiser/Support lane instead. Maybe mage/support You're suggesting to put Caitlyn in a 1v2 top lane and you fail to see how this is exactly the same thing as playing a 2v2 without a support. Sure, you still have a duo lane somewhere else but you're putting an ADC in a 1v2 vs a support/ADC and that's what I'm talking about. If it's too hard for you to understand perhaps I can explain it with pictures, let me know if it's hard to grasp. Im just saying it has never been tried... I think it could be a good counter to like fast push comps, split push comps you know. Thats all I am saying. you ever have those games where youre adc and u go bot lane and then suddenly your supp disconnects then the enemy duo lane goes ham on you and you die a lot now picture that in top lane instead
Everytime I see a Cait with no support they manage to farm just fine unless they're getting dove by their jungler because you cannot zone Cait from farm.
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