Samsung Electronics Pro-Game Team has changed its Starcraft 2 division team name from "Samsung Electronics Khan Pro-Game Team" to "Samsung Galaxy Pro-Game Team" and has also established a new League of Legends team.
Samsung Galaxy officials revealed, "The establishment of a new League of Legends team is part of our goal to actively invest and support e-Sports for its second Golden Age".
Currently Samsung Galaxy's League of Legends team contains 14 members (3 coaches, 11 players) and are divided into two teams and will join the existing SC2 team (Former Samsung Khan, now known as Samsung Galaxy. MVP SC2 has not been acquired) in its team house.
Samsung Galaxy has acquired the best amateur LoL teams MVP Blue and MVP Ozone (Ozone recently received the right to attend Season 3 World Championship). Through coach Choi Yoon Sang who has also been acquired with the League of Legends team, the team will focus on preparing for the next season by acquiring well-known amateur players to improve the rosters. Also, the coaching staff from Samsung Galaxy will be used to manage the League of Legends team and will receive full, active support.
Samsung Galaxy's Head Manager Kim Gyu-Ho stated, "Samsung Galaxy's establishment of League of Legends team will mark a new revitalization of e-Sports. We will support the League of Legends team so that it can become the world's most respected e-Sports team like our SC2 team".
Samsung Galaxy League of Legends team coach Choi Yoon-Sang also remarked, "I am happy that I was able to join the well-respected Samsung electronics Pro-Game Team and I will have it as my responsibility to make the best League of Legends team possible".
Samsung Galaxy's League of Legends team (former MVP Ozone) will leave for Los Angeles on the upcoming 11th to participate in the Season 3 World Championship and after, the team will take a brief break and join the new team house at the end of October.
Samsung Galaxy has considered the renown that the name "Ozone" has brought and will use the team name "Samsung Galaxy Ozone" for now and will use a new team name starting with Champions Winter Season.
Meanwhile, former MVP League of Legends coach Lim Hyun-Suk will head to lead the MVP Dota2 team.
Homme: As it turned out we joined a very prestige and major team in our country so I feel very happy. In return for the sponsorship we will try even harder. Before we got signed by Samsung we already showed you our best performance but now we want to be even better. I can’t talk in more detail about the contract but I really think it is the best in the Korean LoL scene.
Mata: Honestly there was no big changes so I don’t feel much different. In reality I know changes will come. The uniforms are very pretty and I really like them (laughs). Other than that I have no idea. I will return this good opportunity with a steady increasing performance.
Dandy: I will train hard because we met such a good sponsor. I am really happy. Uniforms are very pretty. To not shame the Samsung name I will train hard.
Imp: There are no words to describe how good I feel. From now on I will focus on my form and behavior, I will show a grateful performance to the fans. We will show a strong performance to thank the people who believe in us and our sponsor.
Dade: That we receive a lot of support from Samsung and were able to join them makes me very happy. I can conviently concentrate on the game in the Samsung environment I like it alot. I am happy to work together with a rich sponsor and I think with better results more money therefore I will try harder.
Wait, isn't 최윤상 the guy who owned/founded MVP? If he's joined Samsung, who's left in charge of MVP's SC2, Dota and their new League divisons? 임현석? 최명원?
Initially I thought they would have poached 최명원 but it seems they took the head honcho instead...
I'm curious as to how the transfer fee is being spent or if It's all going to Choi who left the MVP organization. If MVP isn't getting anything out of this to help run their SC2 and Dota 2 team I think It's quite a sad situation.
On September 07 2013 12:16 GTR wrote: Wait, isn't 최윤상 the guy who owned/founded MVP? If he's joined Samsung, who's left in charge of MVP's SC2, Dota and their new League divisons? 임현석? 최명원?
Initially I thought they would have poached 최명원 but it seems they took the head honcho instead...
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
Why would they accept that type of deal? I guess I don't understand why people think MVP would accept a deal that places them in a bad financial situation.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
Why would they accept that type of deal? I guess I don't understand why people think MVP would accept a deal that places them in a bad financial situation.
What do they mean " they " ? Coach Choi who is going to Samsung with the LoL teams is the owner(I guess former?) of MVP and he could make these decisions by himself if he really wanted to.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
Why would they accept that type of deal? I guess I don't understand why people think MVP would accept a deal that places them in a bad financial situation.
What do they mean " they " ? Coach Choi who is going to Samsung with the LoL teams is the owner(I guess former?) of MVP and he could make these decisions by himself if he really wanted to.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but when I think of a company/brand, I never think of that company/brand having a sole owner. I just don't see how that would be possible.
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
Why would they accept that type of deal? I guess I don't understand why people think MVP would accept a deal that places them in a bad financial situation.
What do they mean " they " ? Coach Choi who is going to Samsung with the LoL teams is the owner(I guess former?) of MVP and he could make these decisions by himself if he really wanted to.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but when I think of a company/brand, I never think of that company/brand having a sole owner. I just don't see how that would be possible.
MVP isn't really a company, It's a club run by the owner. Non-Kespa SC2 teams are pretty much all the same in that regard.
Oh cool. I use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Always thought Samsung Khan was awesome because I actually recognized their products, unlike most of the other KeSPA teams.
As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
On September 07 2013 15:36 RaiKageRyu wrote: Yeah glad I wasn't the only one who thought "wait Coach Choi is going to leave MVP behind... then who's in charge of MVP now?"
Yeah, can someone clarify who will be running MVP now? Will it be the Dota2 coach? Or maybe MVP will have some others step up.
Would be interesting if SangHo/Swagger could become a player coach again for their SC2 division.
On September 07 2013 15:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
You need to seperate between EU/NA and Korea. In Korea it's the classic Korean model. First huge growth at pc bangs, then OGN starts picking it up and broadcasts it with big company sponsors on TV and it grows tremendously each season (since early 2012 now). That's why people always compare LoL to how BW started out in Korea (see Chobra grilled with Thorin).
In the West it's LCS by Riot. They made the initial investment themselves and pay most of its cost, however they are also acquiring a lot of sponsors recently, for example just now got American Express to sponsor the LCS and the WorldFinals, and also recently promoted Pacific Rim on their NA LCS stream. So it's getting there, but I'm sure that it's not self-sustainable yet. In Korea it is, obviously.
On September 07 2013 15:20 RagequitBM wrote: Oh cool. I use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Always thought Samsung Khan was awesome because I actually recognized their products, unlike most of the other KeSPA teams.
You could move to Korea and use a Samsung Galaxy and buy the plan from SKT or something lol
Can we keep the original Khan logo on favourite team? You know, at the right end of signature box. Sad to see the team I love in BW no longer exist (in name and logo).
On leaguepedia it says he moved over to Samsung aswell... however they aren't always super up to date with these lower tier Korean teams, so who knows...
The Samsung Galaxy Blue roster according leaguepedia still goes like this:
Wait what? They took both LoL teams and coach Choi? Need more information ASAP, but to me it sounds like the players and coaches still on MVP got shafted completely. No money, no GSTL, no Samsung, no Proleague, no nothing. I guess the big question is what happened to the money.
Sorry guys, but Galaxy is a better name, both in aesthetics and in marketing value. Also, big phew on MVP SC2 team staying around! Too bad it couldn't stay in GSTL though...
On September 07 2013 17:00 vrok wrote: Wait what? They took both LoL teams and coach Choi? Need more information ASAP, but to me it sounds like the players and coaches still on MVP got shafted completely. No money, no GSTL, no Samsung, no Proleague, no nothing. I guess the big question is what happened to the money.
Depends on where the money went. If a moderate portion of the money gets reinvested(10-20%+), MVP is probably fine, and they can probably still survive despite having lost their largest sponsorship draw. If no/little money gets reinvested though, MVP could be in deep water.
On September 07 2013 16:54 UmberBane wrote: On leaguepedia it says he moved over to Samsung aswell... however they aren't always super up to date with these lower tier Korean teams, so who knows...
The Samsung Galaxy Blue roster according leaguepedia still goes like this:
On September 07 2013 15:20 RagequitBM wrote: Oh cool. I use a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. Always thought Samsung Khan was awesome because I actually recognized their products, unlike most of the other KeSPA teams.
They carry CJ foods at target (at least in california).
Altho the microwave noodles are kinda shitty unfortunately
1. He is leaving MVP but its not like the sc2 guys and coaches are screwed over. He made sure that everything runs smoothly after he leaves and MVP Sc2 and dota 2 team will be better off without him but he cannot say why (but said it would be revealed at a later date)
2. Cannot disclose how much MVP LoL teams were sold because of NDA.
3. A user on PlayXP asked a very interesting question Q: Is it likely for MVP Sc2 team to join Kespa? Now that they have left, I don't think MVP is staying independent or going back to Esf. A: You'll know soon enough by the team name once the sponsorship league (*dunno what this means :0) starts.
On September 07 2013 17:48 mongmong wrote: You'll know soon enough by the team name once the sponsorship league (*dunno what this means :0) starts.
I'm not sure if this correlated, it might be: MVP Ozone (now Samsung) recently had a showmatch in Taiwan against some Taiwanese allstar team, and they had changed their tags from "MVP Ozone" to "Hot6MVP". This was about a week ago, so maybe it was a hint towards a new name / Hot6 name sponsorship? Sounds pretty KeSPA-esque in my opinion. Pure speculation, of course, the only hint was said showmatch by MVP Ozone.
On September 07 2013 17:48 mongmong wrote: Coach Choi did a small Q&A on PlayXp
1. He is leaving MVP but its not like the sc2 guys and coaches are screwed over. He made sure that everything runs smoothly after he leaves and MVP Sc2 and dota 2 team will be better off without him but he cannot say why (but said it would be revealed at a later date)
2. Cannot disclose how much MVP LoL teams were sold because of NDA.
3. A user on PlayXP asked a very interesting question Q: Is it likely for MVP Sc2 team to join Kespa? Now that they have left, I don't think MVP is staying independent or going back to Esf. A: You'll know soon enough by the team name once the sponsorship league (*dunno what this means :0) starts.
Seems like he did the same thing as boxer. Move to a place with solid financial backing and stability, leaving what he made behind. I just hope it doesn't end the same way as the slayers story. Hopefully he used a chunk of that change he got to pay for the team house/food for a decent amount of time.
On September 07 2013 17:48 mongmong wrote: Coach Choi did a small Q&A on PlayXp
1. He is leaving MVP but its not like the sc2 guys and coaches are screwed over. He made sure that everything runs smoothly after he leaves and MVP Sc2 and dota 2 team will be better off without him but he cannot say why (but said it would be revealed at a later date)
2. Cannot disclose how much MVP LoL teams were sold because of NDA.
3. A user on PlayXP asked a very interesting question Q: Is it likely for MVP Sc2 team to join Kespa? Now that they have left, I don't think MVP is staying independent or going back to Esf. A: You'll know soon enough by the team name once the sponsorship league (*dunno what this means :0) starts.
On September 07 2013 17:55 jiberish wrote: Seems like he did the same thing as boxer. Move to a place with solid financial backing and stability, leaving what he made behind. I just hope it doesn't end the same way as the slayers story. Hopefully he used a chunk of that change he got to pay for the team house/food for a decent amount of time.
With the exception that BoxeR moved from one thing he created into basically the other thing he created.
Samsung Galaxy Ozone will still need some time to roll of the tongue, I suppose... But I can't wait to see them play again, need dat Dandy-fix soon! :D
On September 07 2013 15:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
2009-2011 had about one major tournament and a bunch of small online ones, but no real observer client made things hard. Running an event and getting money was as hard in the early days as it was with any other game (bar SC2, which I feel fits your description much better). There were a lot of problems early on at events and everything like that. Riot started advertising tournaments around Season 1 in 2011 which is when it picked up a lot. From there the game has grown with the audience. Increased money and tournaments etc has been pretty much parallel with the increase in interest and audience.
The third party interests have seemed small in EU/NA during Season 3 because Riot have picked up so much of the tab. I'm certain that companies have expressed interest in sponsoring LoL things during this time but we haven't seen any of it. In Korea it's normal OSL/MSL style with The Champions being sponsored by Olympus and Hot6ix etc. It would be nice to see the LCS sponsored a little externally.
On September 07 2013 15:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
2009-2011 had about one major tournament and a bunch of small online ones, but no real observer client made things hard. Running an event and getting money was as hard in the early days as it was with any other game (bar SC2, which I feel fits your description much better). There were a lot of problems early on at events and everything like that. Riot started advertising tournaments around Season 1 in 2011 which is when it picked up a lot. From there the game has grown with the audience. Increased money and tournaments etc has been pretty much parallel with the increase in interest and audience.
The third party interests have seemed small in EU/NA during Season 3 because Riot have picked up so much of the tab. I'm certain that companies have expressed interest in sponsoring LoL things during this time but we haven't seen any of it. In Korea it's normal OSL/MSL style with The Champions being sponsored by Olympus and Hot6ix etc. It would be nice to see the LCS sponsored a little externally.
Don't forget about about the American Express or Pacific Rim sponsorship though! AmEx is doing big things with LCS right now and they're now looking to acquire additional sponsors of that caliber. Now LCS and also Worlds is sponsored by American Express and you can get LoL credit cards or something. It's getting more similar to Korea over time. Of course it still pales in comparison to the huge big coroporate sponsor list of OGN Champions, but it's slowly but surely getting there.
lmfao, nobody wants to sponsor single player esports anymore. need to bring in some actual team stuff. dota 2 WoT etc.. will keep bringing home the dough.
expect several more teams disbanding or downsizing to keep themselves afloat. surprisingly enough, EU region is staying strong
Homme: As it turned out we joined a very prestige and major team in our country so I feel very happy. In return for the sponsorship we will try even harder. Before we got signed by Samsung we already showed you our best performance but now we want to be even better. I can’t talk in more detail about the contract but I really think it is the best in the Korean LoL scene.
Mata: Honestly there was no big changes so I don’t feel much different. In reality I know changes will come. The uniforms are very pretty and I really like them (laughs). Other than that I have no idea. I will return this good opportunity with a steady increasing performance.
Dandy: I will train hard because we met such a good sponsor. I am really happy. Uniforms are very pretty. To not shame the Samsung name I will train hard.
Imp: There are no words to describe how good I feel. From now on I will focus on my form and behavior, I will show a grateful performance to the fans. We will show a strong performance to thank the people who believe in us and our sponsor.
Dade: That we receive a lot of support from Samsung and were able to join them makes me very happy. I can conviently concentrate on the game in the Samsung environment I like it alot. I am happy to work together with a rich sponsor and I think with better results more money therefore I will try harder.
Homme: As it turned out we joined a very prestige and major team in our country so I feel very happy. In return for the sponsorship we will try even harder. Before we got signed by Samsung we already showed you our best performance but now we want to be even better. I can’t talk in more detail about the contract but I really think it is the best in the Korean LoL scene.
Mata: Honestly there was no big changes so I don’t feel much different. In reality I know changes will come. The uniforms are very pretty and I really like them (laughs). Other than that I have no idea. I will return this good opportunity with a steady increasing performance.
Dandy: I will train hard because we met such a good sponsor. I am really happy. Uniforms are very pretty. To not shame the Samsung name I will train hard.
Imp: There are no words to describe how good I feel. From now on I will focus on my form and behavior, I will show a grateful performance to the fans. We will show a strong performance to thank the people who believe in us and our sponsor.
Dade: That we receive a lot of support from Samsung and were able to join them makes me very happy. I can conviently concentrate on the game in the Samsung environment I like it alot. I am happy to work together with a rich sponsor and I think with better results more money therefore I will try harder.
The last sentence of Dade is probably wrong because I dont know exactly what 빵빵하다 means
Haha I just hope Imp won't change his behaviour too much! He was incredibly humble in the recent Grilled, which is nice, but I hope he will bring out the trashtalk again when it's time for the big matches, like he used to!
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
It is. Blizzard took the transition for granted when it was all but that, and didn't make that much effort to solidify their lead on the esport market. Now they're trying, but it's too late, LoL is already dominant, because it's F2P and because Riot showered tournaments and teams with money while blizzard was busy trying to make broadcasters pay. Something they could do without consequences when they were the dominant force on the market, but now that concurrence is stronger, they need to change the way they do things.
On September 07 2013 13:46 RezChi wrote: Holy shit, not only they buy MVP Ozone, they change the team name? I preferred Khan = (
Starcraft team is still Khan, just the LoL teams get to keep their names. It's actually wrong in OP.
To clarify even more (as I see a lot of people getting this wrong): MVP Ozone = Samsung Galaxy Ozone MVP Blue = Samsung Galaxy Blue Samsung Khan = Samsung Galaxy Khan
On September 07 2013 15:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
You need to seperate between EU/NA and Korea. In Korea it's the classic Korean model. First huge growth at pc bangs, then OGN starts picking it up and broadcasts it with big company sponsors on TV and it grows tremendously each season (since early 2012 now). That's why people always compare LoL to how BW started out in Korea (see Chobra grilled with Thorin).
In the West it's LCS by Riot. They made the initial investment themselves and pay most of its cost, however they are also acquiring a lot of sponsors recently, for example just now got American Express to sponsor the LCS and the WorldFinals, and also recently promoted Pacific Rim on their NA LCS stream. So it's getting there, but I'm sure that it's not self-sustainable yet. In Korea it is, obviously.
Thanks to the people who answered.
Is Korea following the BW model in the sense it priming its scene to exist more or less independent of the global scene, or have they taken more strides to globalize their success? Is Riot just letting them do their own thing or are they behaving like Blizzard in establishing legal foundations for their IP and its use? Are their any problems that the community forsee's for LoL (Like SC2 skill/geography differential or something) that could cause serious turbulence or is it all gum drops and rainbows thus far?
On September 07 2013 12:21 Amethyst21 wrote: Welp,
They certainly said what many have been thinking for awhile about the Korean scene - that LoL is the second golden age of e-sport competition after Brood War.
Kinda sad that MVP's other departments get shafted (though hopefully they will improve with the funding from Samsung), though very happy for MVP's LoL players who have really established themselves amongst the top teams in the world in a short time.
I don't know if you are looking at this in the right manner. The other MVP teams will be benefiting from the money that they got from the LoL deal. It's pretty much a win / win situation. I assume the money they received was large enough that MVP would part from their LoL teams like this.
The thing we don't know for sure though is that the other MVP staff staying with the SC2/Dota2 teams and the SC2/Dota2 players are receiving anything at all from this. It's entirely possible all of the transfer money went to coach Choi and the LoL players. So MVP lost their head coach and manager for nothing in that scenario.
Why would they accept that type of deal? I guess I don't understand why people think MVP would accept a deal that places them in a bad financial situation.
I think Samsung acquired the LoL teams plus the management/coaches and left the sc2 division out to dry... my opinion anyway and I haven't gotten past page 1 yet of the comments, so maybe I'm missing something.
On September 07 2013 15:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: As a ignorant peon, is the LoL scene propped up by Riot, third party interests, or a combination of both? I'm impressed with its growth, but call me cynical, I am used to seeing a competitive gaming scene struggle to develop and establish itself prior to exploding (ala BW, CS, FIghting scene, etc.) It always seemed to me LoL never had a struggle and just coasts. Am I way off and just missed the hard years?
You need to seperate between EU/NA and Korea. In Korea it's the classic Korean model. First huge growth at pc bangs, then OGN starts picking it up and broadcasts it with big company sponsors on TV and it grows tremendously each season (since early 2012 now). That's why people always compare LoL to how BW started out in Korea (see Chobra grilled with Thorin).
In the West it's LCS by Riot. They made the initial investment themselves and pay most of its cost, however they are also acquiring a lot of sponsors recently, for example just now got American Express to sponsor the LCS and the WorldFinals, and also recently promoted Pacific Rim on their NA LCS stream. So it's getting there, but I'm sure that it's not self-sustainable yet. In Korea it is, obviously.
Thanks to the people who answered.
Is Korea following the BW model in the sense it priming its scene to exist more or less independent of the global scene, or have they taken more strides to globalize their success? Is Riot just letting them do their own thing or are they behaving like Blizzard in establishing legal foundations for their IP and its use? Are their any problems that the community forsee's for LoL (Like SC2 skill/geography differential or something) that could cause serious turbulence or is it all gum drops and rainbows thus far?
So far OGN is pretty much doing their own thing from what it looks like, although OGN and KeSPA seem to have a very good relationship to Riot Korea and tend to work together closely. However, they are not taking control of them or anything like say what Blizzard tried to do with WCS. OGN actually completely does their own format which is vastly different from the LCS format (I prefer it). So it's not all streamlined or anything and seems more free than say the WCS system in Korea. Of course there are concerns in the LoL scene that the Koreans keep getting so damn far ahead that everything will just be a Koreanfest (to be honest, it already is at that point) and this supposedly was one of the main reasons for Riot to do their LCS in EU/NA, because they wanted a fully professional league and infrastructure that can potentially keep up with the Koreans and other Asian countries. Obviously that's not happening because KeSPA is just way too advanced with their coaching staff and incredible long eSports history (for example Reach, Yellow, Garimto are all LoL coaches now), but at least it helps keep the gap a little smaller than it would be without the LCS. But there's just no escape from the Korean dominance, they will do anything humanly possible to completely outshine you in every aspect - and that's how it is.
Well MVP's SC2 team seems pretty screwed. Haven't been picked up by Samsung so they won't be in Proleague and they left eSF so they won't be in GSTL. Sad times
I respect their decision. Honestly, it is just not worth it to invest in SC2. Not only is it a difficult game to lure people with, it is easy for people to leave.
On September 07 2013 23:51 UmberBane wrote: The only thing I don't like are their new uniforms though. I hope they will switch them up soon. Old MVP uniforms looked really nice.
LOL I reckon. The new samsung uniform looks terrible tbh.
Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
On September 08 2013 00:36 OPL3SA2 wrote: Why does this article have a SC2 tag on it? To rub it in or something?
My guess would be because it is an update on the rumours that the MVP SC2 team would get acquired by Samsung, aswell. I get where you're coming from, but bad news are still news...
I hope MVP SC2 (and Dota2) division doesn't get screwed over, but actually gets something out of this deal With DRG being back in shape and all, they're a really good team.
On September 08 2013 00:50 ACrow wrote: I hope MVP SC2 (and Dota2) division doesn't get screwed over, but actually gets something out of this deal With DRG being back in shape and all, they're a really good team.
Seeing as it was Head Coach Choi that left for Samsung, things aren't looking good on that front.. initially it was reported MVP was gonna get a lump sum for acquiring the LoL team, but with the head hancho jumping ship I don't see that really going down..
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
Kinda silly considering MVP Ozone was one of the best teams in Korea (Last two OGN seasons they got first and third respectively). I wouldn't consider them amateurs.
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
Kinda silly considering MVP Ozone was one of the best teams in Korea (Last two OGN seasons they got first and third respectively). I wouldn't consider them amateurs.
I guess it's just a bit of KeSPA attitude to make it sound better/superior or whatever. They definitely were far from being "amateurs" by any stretch of the imagination, even winning Champions Spring and probably getting loads of cash with their sponsorships (besides the Ozone name sponsorship they even scored an Expedia sponsorship) and obviously training very strictly and full time for a long time now. They were just as much pro gamers as CJ, KT, SKT, Jin Air and whoever are.
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
Kinda silly considering MVP Ozone was one of the best teams in Korea (Last two OGN seasons they got first and third respectively). I wouldn't consider them amateurs.
I guess it's just a bit of KeSPA attitude to make it sound better/superior or whatever. They definitely were far from being "amateurs" by any stretch of the imagination, even winning Champions Spring and probably getting loads of cash with their sponsorships (besides the Ozone name sponsorship they even scored an Expedia sponsorship) and obviously training very strictly and full time for a long time now. They were just as much pro gamers as CJ, KT, SKT, Jin Air and whoever are.
Being good is not being professional, its relative to contracts. Yes, i don´t know how it was with MVP, but maybe is this what they meant.
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
Kinda silly considering MVP Ozone was one of the best teams in Korea (Last two OGN seasons they got first and third respectively). I wouldn't consider them amateurs.
Amateur as in not Pro. As in not on salary vs paid salary. By the sports world definition of amateur, they were amateur.
Well, I guess if you're living as a full time gamer competing in the insanely competitive OGN Champions and make loads of cash, you should be considered a professional gamer, no? What else could there be? You make your living off competing/sponsorships/pricemoney + train fulltime + are one of Korea's top teams
On September 08 2013 00:13 UmberBane wrote: Yeah they really should come up with something better for Worlds. Just a big standard Samsung logo across the chest in simple blue-white would already look a lot better than what they have now in my opinion... Oh well, can't have it all.
On September 08 2013 00:11 Frost wrote:
On September 07 2013 14:50 UmberBane wrote: Awesome as ever, Frost! I won't get tired of saying that.
Sad as fuck that the dancing coach leaves though......... I'm not sure if changing your coach right before Worlds is a good idea.
By the way, why does the article say "best amateur teams"? I don't get it.
It's saying Samsung considered MVP Blue/Ozone as the best two amataur teams
I still don't understand the whole "amateur" context. It makes it sound like they picked up a rookie team to build them up, when they actually did the exact opposite.
It just means that Samsung considered them as "amateur"
Kinda silly considering MVP Ozone was one of the best teams in Korea (Last two OGN seasons they got first and third respectively). I wouldn't consider them amateurs.
Amateur as in not Pro. As in not on salary vs paid salary. By the sports world definition of amateur, they were amateur.
Any sources on them not getting salary before? That would have been an extreme rip-off by the MVP organization then, because according to Chobra even low tier Korean teams with sponsors earn decent salary, while he roughly estimated players on top teams to make about 100k a year. Also they had some really good sponsors like Expedia, Ozone (name sponsorship, must cost a lot), Hot6ix, BenQ and whatnot.
I'm not certain but I don't think MVP paid salary to their League team (do they pay a real salary to anyone?) so in that sense they were amateur. Obviously though they are an excellent team and in actions are professional, if not in definition.
Anyways, I'm curious to see what will happen to the MVP sc2 team now.
Who the fuck cares? Call it one name, trade for one game... I'll get my SC2 fix anyways. You people are too invested in who gets the money. I hate Samsung, they can suck my balls. I want the games and they will come regardless of what corrupt corporate assholes run this shit.
On September 08 2013 13:53 Leeto wrote: Samsung Galaxy Ozone is a pretty cool name though. And it looks good for the company since their team will most likely run deep through worlds.
On September 08 2013 13:53 Leeto wrote: Samsung Galaxy Ozone is a pretty cool name though. And it looks good for the company since their team will most likely run deep through worlds.
All about that branding. It looks for the phone.
Yeah, that's certainly true! The ROI should be excellent for Samsung.
On September 08 2013 15:59 Lysanias wrote: And yet TL keeps hiding LoL away in a down corner there <---------
Honestly, I don't think anyone who is active in the LoL subforum cares about that. They've got amazing coverage, just as good as the officially featured titles (maybe better? just kidding), because the staff/writers are completely amazing and really passionate. I'd rather have it stay as it is, although the coverage deserves even more attention of course, but the rest is perfect as it is, in my opinion.
On September 08 2013 17:22 WetSocks wrote: Sad truth. This esports golden age is not sc2's ... Good luck both!
One must be really sarcastic to call this "golden age of esports" after killing bw with sc2 and replacing it with LoL.
You misunderstood the text. He called it the "2nd Golden Age" of eSport, refering to BW being the 1st Golden Age, obviously. So calm down, nobody said anything against BW (many people in the LR threads for KR LoL events are BW fans, like myself) and it surely wasn't sarcasm. Everything is fine.
It is the golden age of e-sports. When Brood War was at its peak, it was still just Korea. Now you have China, Korea, Europe, North America, Taiwan, and even budding regions like South America and places like Turkey building up teams and showing major interest.
On September 08 2013 18:14 Fionn wrote: It is the golden age of e-sports. When Brood War was at its peak, it was still just Korea. Now you have China, Korea, Europe, North America, Taiwan, and even budding regions like South America and places like Turkey building up teams and showing major interest.
It's really an argument of quantity over quality, in my opinion. It's kind of like how American Football has (to my limited knowledge) one of the most vibrant, and certainly one of the most financially viable sport scene in the world, but is limited solely to the United States of America. The discussion of quality matters, because unlike football (the world-wide successful sport), the level of competition despite the wide participation from the various regions has not been elevated it all that much. To draw what may be an unsuitable comparison, the professional Starcraft 2 scene was globally accepted, yet was dominated by a minute, thoroughly unorganized scene in Korea. As fast as the League of Legends scene is growing in Korea, it has yet to reach the "glory days" of e-Sports back when even your grandmother knew who Boxer was.
And it matters, because people often talk about how League of Legends is so much better than the olden days because of its global nature, like they argued it with Starcraft 2, when the fact of the matter is, it's because none of the multiple regions has managed to create a scene that even be compared to what Starcraft has sustained for years. If even one region manages to replicate half of what was going on back in the days in Korea, they would dominate so hard it wouldn't even be funny, and make the other regions more or less irrelevant. Yes the money, the viewership is there. However, the level of competition, the depth of the talent level isn't even comparable. It doesn't matter how there are players from all over the world playing it. Starcraft had players from Canada, United States of America, and Korea all competiting for Brood War Tournament World Championship, but the level of the competition that followed years after made all that look thoroughly amateur.
I'd also think we still need at least 1-2 full years to even think about directly comparing the levels of competition. Korea's talent pool is already really deep by any standards, but still not where BW was at mid/late 2000's. I don't blame them, just think about where BW was one and a half years in, it was nothing compared to what it became later, but it still shows that it needs a bit more time as of now. So again, I don't want to belittle the Korean talent pool because it's already insane by any eSports standards, but right now it couldn't support such a huge team environment as BW in its full prime did. The air is already getting a bit thin now that all the KeSPA teams are hiring all the top Challenger players as drilling partners for their starting rosters. Trying to form a new team right now that could actually compete with the likes of SKT, KT, Ozone seems virtually impossible, because they are just sooo much better than everyone else and the talent pool simply needs time to catch up to that level of play. We can even see how big the difference between first and second best team in Korea is right now (SKT vs KT), while the difference from KT to the CJ teams (so a top 2/3 team versus top 5/6 teams) looks just absolutely ridiculous, as we saw in the Regionals. Like, no chance at all. They still need to step it up a notch and become more ruthless and cutthroat to reach that good ol' BW competition level. Not that I'm complaining though, I'm absolutely ecstatic about what's happening in the Korean scene and it's probably only 2nd to BW, but we shouldn't go overboard yet.
How can You guys even draw so groundless comparison is beyond me. Comparing two games- with different genres, one of which is played solo and the other is a teamgame- in terms of player talent....Thats just stupid.
On September 08 2013 20:58 Silvanel wrote: How can You guys even draw so groundless comparison is beyond me. Comparing two games- with different genres, one of which is played solo and the other is a teamgame- in terms of player talent....Thats just stupid.
In my opinion there is somewhat of a difference between comparing games and comparing scenes/competition. You don't have to like them of course, but comparisons just kind of come along naturally because there are so many similarities in these scenes. Personally I find the topic quite interesting, so why not? In case you're interested, I'd recommend that Grilled episode that Thorin did with Chobra, which also includes this topic.
Also, we're not specifically comparing "player talent" but rather the talent pool that is being fostered by the infrastructure and the resulting competition. Just wanted to add this for the sake of completeness. As long as it remains a level-headed discussion and doesn't derail into cliché pissing contests in the vein of "but my game is so much better" I think this topic can be quite rich. Unfortunately such a discussion is often lead very emotionally and is almost somewhat stigmatized by now, from my point of view.
On September 08 2013 20:58 Silvanel wrote: How can You guys even draw so groundless comparison is beyond me. Comparing two games- with different genres, one of which is played solo and the other is a teamgame- in terms of player talent....Thats just stupid.
I can draw comparisons because the difference in talent level is beyond reasonable doubt.
For example, do you realize that professional players still use solo-que as a legitimate form of practice, and actually learn things off amateur players? Flame, without question one of the most highly regarded top laner in Korea, if not the world, and a damned good Nidalee player himself, was found asking an amateur player for tips on how to improve as a Nidalee user. Not just one or two questions, but endless waves of questions that would never have been seen on a similar degree in the professional Stacraft scene. Could you imagine Jaedong asking an amateur zerg player on how to play against late-mechanic-switch in the zerg-versus-terran match-up? Of course, the nature of the game does provide differing situations, but there is no shape or form where you can argue that the level of talent is higher in the League of Legends scene, than the professional Starcraft scene at its highest peak.
Do you realize how insanely difficult it was for an amateur player to make it as a professional Starcraft player? There were various stages you had to pass, that tooks months, if not years to overcome, not the automatic "solo-que high ranker" into "professional player" you see these days. Two different games, two different situations. Yes, but if you take that argument too far, you can argue that the talent pool cannot be compared in ANY two separate scenes. There clearly was a difference in the level of competition and talent. You simply choose to acknowledge it, or you go back to your "cannot be compared" argument.
On September 08 2013 20:58 Silvanel wrote: How can You guys even draw so groundless comparison is beyond me. Comparing two games- with different genres, one of which is played solo and the other is a teamgame- in terms of player talent....Thats just stupid.
I can draw comparisons because the difference in talent level is beyond reasonable doubt.
For example, do you realize that professional players still use solo-que as a legitimate form of practice, and actually learn things off amateur players? Flame, without question one of the most highly regarded top laner in Korea, if not the world, and a damned good Nidalee player himself, was found asking an amateur player for tips on how to improve as a Nidalee user. Not just one or two questions, but endless waves of questions that would never have been seen on a similar degree in the professional Stacraft scene. Could you imagine Jaedong asking an amateur zerg player on how to play against late-mechanic-switch in the zerg-versus-terran match-up? Of course, the nature of the game does provide differing situations, but there is no shape or form where you can argue that the level of talent is higher in the League of Legends scene, than the professional Starcraft scene at its highest peak.
Do you realize how insanely difficult it was for an amateur player to make it as a professional Starcraft player? There were various stages you had to pass, that tooks months, if not years to overcome, not the automatic "solo-que high ranker" into "professional player" you see these days. Two different games, two different situations. Yes, but if you take that argument too far, you can argue that the talent pool cannot be compared in ANY two separate scenes. There clearly was a difference in the level of competition and talent. You simply choose to acknowledge it, or you go back to your "cannot be compared" argument.
While, as I said before, I pretty much agree with everything you said, we still have to factor in that to some degree the direct comparison will come off as a bit one sided and maybe won't be that fair. We're like 1 1/2 or 2 years in in Korea, so our comparisons to the prime of BW will obviously sound very harsh. It's just that the golden days of BW were so insane and had so much long time build up behind them, that any other scene will simply pale in comparison. I really didn't want to come off as bashing the Korean LoL scene, because with where it is right now things are looking very bright for the future and I enjoy it a lot, and to me personally it's the closest to BW that we have ever come, but there's still a long, long way to go. Maybe we can come back in 3 years and compare them again, and see how it went. Until then I guess I'll just enjoy the ride.
Also I think a more adequate analogy for your Jaedong example would be like Madlife asking some amateur about Blitz or Faker asking someone about... anyone.
Not surprising given SC2's performance in Korea. Must say I'm shocked that Blizzard still hasn't figured this out. I doubt they'll ever sell 1v1s in Korea, as a gaming hobby. Team matches and different modes are what they should focus on, but thus far they've failed pretty largely on that front.
If team games were more popular, Koreans would pay more attention to the pro scene.
I wouldnt call it the golden Age but we are in a very good moment of time for esports. For me golden age its something which already passed by and is in the past. But I think that quantity in terms of more region are participating in esports is more important the high skill level in Broodwar for reaching a "golden era". In addition reaching new countries is way harder than increasing the skilllevel. Skillevel will rise automatically over time but getting a foothold in a new region is incredible difficult.
I think we will see pro practicing on soloqueue for a long time (always) because playing only scrims is way more taxing on your mind then playing 1vs1 inhouse with your teammates.
i wonder how kespa will handle sc2 now with their eyes and ears on lol... i think there will be no more OGN hosted sc2.... except all proleague only...
Possibly contract issues, too? I'm sure Ozone paid a lot of cash for the name sponsorship, so maybe it was easier for all parties just to keep it until the contract expires.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/roL6lzM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8Y9R5tT.jpg)
