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On August 21 2013 05:26 Simberto wrote:
Can someone explain to me why junglers NEVER build aegis? As a support that puts me in a stupid predicament. Either i build an aegis, or i spam wards + oracles. Not having aegis/locket in your team is bad. But not having vision is also bad. I can't even understand why against a team consisting of Malph + Singed + Blitz + Ahri + Cait youd rather build a FH then an aegis. Actually, i can't really understand why you would build a FH, ever.
I often build locket as the jungler when my support is not getting it or it takes too long for him to get it. Its a must have team fighting item. And, since the ward warfare is expensive, as the support I usually tell my jungler to get locket.
...
Then again, YOLOQ LOL
Though i have come to the conclusion lately that vision is completely irrelevant. People on a team with 100% mapvision get randomly caught or start stupid fights as often as people on a team with 0% mapvision. Actually less vision appears to make people more likely to group and not run around alone and start stupid fights.
That might actually be true. OO maybe this behaviour also correlates with the following champion picks: fizz.
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On August 21 2013 05:43 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:20 Alaric wrote:On August 21 2013 03:04 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
People still buy gp10 items? What is this, S2?
Rush a goddamn sightstone and buy some wards you POS support. You're better off buying a doran's blade/ring/shield so you can at least be useful in lane. Or buy philo and spam the hell out of pinks. Are you saying you do this? Because it's like the worst thing ever and I've noticed it's also what pretty much 100% of silver players do.
Depends. Enemy does it? I'll do it. While murdering him so I have more gold to establish map control.
I usually play support very aggressively and I'm also pretty vocal about available gank paths, wards timings and especially dragon opportunities, so I work pretty hard at making my pinks worth it.
And most people in Gold rush sightstone. In Silver people don't rush philo and spam pinks, they rush philo, build sightstone, and are behind in gold compared to me until like 20 minutes later when their philo has paid for itself while I'm using these 700 gold for more useful stuff like HP or pinks to murder their squishy asses.
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Doran's shield OP on supports.
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On August 21 2013 05:57 sylverfyre wrote:
Doran's shield OP on supports.
This so much. The first time I realize this was shortly after the dshield change and I counterpicked an Alistar with Lulu thinking that I'd stomp him with my poke and cc. He started dshield and I found out that none of my autoattacks stick because of the item's unique passive and health regen. I've started buying it on tanky supports like Ali, Blitz, Leona, Taric, and Thresh ever since.
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United States47024 Posts
Philo doesn't make any sense to me. It was somewhat defensible in S2 with the extremely good build path into Shurelya's, but since Shurelya's is a lot more situational now, a casual Philo doesn't go anywhere. The item doesn't sell itself on the gold generation because the stats you get drop to near zero practical value past laning phase and it takes 23 minutes to even break even on the cost you spend on the item. Having 7 HP5 and 9 MP5 for free 23 minutes from now at the cost of 700 gold now does not feel very compelling.
DShield/DBlade are very good on supports. DBlade's the real secret tech because +10 AD actually is very good for low-level trades/harass and 5 HP return on hit independent of your actual AD is good even if you aren't an AD.
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I don't really understand the argument that Locket is "meh"
I mean, assuming that you're level 10, and ignoring the HP regen and the aura altogether, Locket and its active, Cloth Armor and a Null Magic Mantle are giving you:
450 HP, 35 armor, 40 MR and 10% CDR for 3200g
Compare that to like, Wardens Mail + Spectres Cowl + Kindlegem, which is giving you:
50 Armor, 45 MR, 400 HP and 10% CDR for 3250g
Yeah the latter option gives you the Wardens Mail passive and more armor, but Locket is giving you an MR aura and a shield active. What do you want more in a teamfight, the Wardens Mail passive on your jungler, or an extra 80 MR and 600 HP on the team?
I see Locket as still a very good economy defensive buy unless you want to be stacking entirely armor or entirely MR. Ancient Golem + Locket still seems like a strong jungler core for tanky stats.
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Haven't yet built a dblade on support :o
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On August 21 2013 06:10 Ketara wrote:
I don't really understand the argument that Locket is "meh"
I mean, assuming that you're level 10, and ignoring the HP regen and the aura altogether, Locket and its active, Cloth Armor and a Null Magic Mantle are giving you:
450 HP, 35 armor, 40 MR and 10% CDR for 3200g
Compare that to like, Wardens Mail + Spectres Cowl + Kindlegem, which is giving you:
50 Armor, 45 MR, 400 HP and 10% CDR for 3250g
Yeah the latter option gives you the Wardens Mail passive and more armor, but Locket is giving you an MR aura and a shield active.
I see Locket as still a very good economy defensive buy unless you want to be stacking entirely armor or entirely MR. Ancient Golem + Locket still seems like a strong jungler core for tanky stats.
You're only getting +20 Armor, and +20 MR, not 40. There's no +20 selfish MR on Locket. There's only 20 Armor on locket.
You're now 30 armor and 25 MR short of your other build (which is 3 incomplete items. One of which is only 300 gold away from a completed spirit visage which increases its efficiency massively because you get 10% CDR, SV passive, 20 HP5, and SV passive multiplying both the 20HP5 and your natural HP5 by 1.2
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United States23745 Posts
On August 21 2013 06:10 Ketara wrote:
I don't really understand the argument that Locket is "meh"
I mean, assuming that you're level 10, and ignoring the HP regen and the aura altogether, Locket and its active, Cloth Armor and a Null Magic Mantle are giving you:
450 HP, 35 armor, 40 MR and 10% CDR for 3200g
Compare that to like, Wardens Mail + Spectres Cowl + Kindlegem, which is giving you:
50 Armor, 45 MR, 400 HP and 10% CDR for 3250g
Yeah the latter option gives you the Wardens Mail passive and more armor, but Locket is giving you an MR aura and a shield active.
I see Locket as still a very good economy defensive buy unless you want to be stacking entirely armor or entirely MR. Ancient Golem + Locket still seems like a strong jungler core for tanky stats.
Shh, stop saying it's good, no one is building it, you got the game you wanted! hue
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United States47024 Posts
A second DShield would probably be better if the passive weren't unique, but it is, so what can you do.
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On August 21 2013 06:12 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 06:10 Ketara wrote:
I don't really understand the argument that Locket is "meh"
I mean, assuming that you're level 10, and ignoring the HP regen and the aura altogether, Locket and its active, Cloth Armor and a Null Magic Mantle are giving you:
450 HP, 35 armor, 40 MR and 10% CDR for 3200g
Compare that to like, Wardens Mail + Spectres Cowl + Kindlegem, which is giving you:
50 Armor, 45 MR, 400 HP and 10% CDR for 3250g
Yeah the latter option gives you the Wardens Mail passive and more armor, but Locket is giving you an MR aura and a shield active.
I see Locket as still a very good economy defensive buy unless you want to be stacking entirely armor or entirely MR. Ancient Golem + Locket still seems like a strong jungler core for tanky stats.
You're only getting +20 Armor, and +20 MR, not 40. There's no +20 selfish MR on Locket. There's only 20 Armor on locket.
Locket + Null Magic Mantle is 40 MR.
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On August 21 2013 06:12 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 06:12 sylverfyre wrote:On August 21 2013 06:10 Ketara wrote:
I don't really understand the argument that Locket is "meh"
I mean, assuming that you're level 10, and ignoring the HP regen and the aura altogether, Locket and its active, Cloth Armor and a Null Magic Mantle are giving you:
450 HP, 35 armor, 40 MR and 10% CDR for 3200g
Compare that to like, Wardens Mail + Spectres Cowl + Kindlegem, which is giving you:
50 Armor, 45 MR, 400 HP and 10% CDR for 3250g
Yeah the latter option gives you the Wardens Mail passive and more armor, but Locket is giving you an MR aura and a shield active.
I see Locket as still a very good economy defensive buy unless you want to be stacking entirely armor or entirely MR. Ancient Golem + Locket still seems like a strong jungler core for tanky stats.
You're only getting +20 Armor, and +20 MR, not 40. There's no +20 selfish MR on Locket. There's only 20 Armor on locket. Locket + Null Magic Mantle is 40 MR. Sorry, misunderstood.
Still not sure why you're comparing 3 incomplete items to a completed 2500g item + base items. You could complete that SV and youll be way better off than the locket thing. Locket is pretty terrible selfishly.
On August 21 2013 06:12 TheYango wrote:
A second DShield would probably be better if the passive weren't unique, but it is, so what can you do.
I tend to be too busy building wards and probably spending the next 3 save-up of 475 gold that goes to "not wards" on ruby crystal -> sightstone -> Ruby sightstone. Even if I'm spending the early game throwing pinks around, sightstone needs to be finished at some point.
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Yeah if you want to only be building MR items, rushing SV is probably better than rushing Locket now.
But if you want balanced defensive stats, Locket still seems like a very good buy.
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On August 21 2013 05:49 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 05:43 UniversalSnip wrote:On August 21 2013 03:20 Alaric wrote:On August 21 2013 03:04 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
People still buy gp10 items? What is this, S2?
Rush a goddamn sightstone and buy some wards you POS support. You're better off buying a doran's blade/ring/shield so you can at least be useful in lane. Or buy philo and spam the hell out of pinks. Are you saying you do this? Because it's like the worst thing ever and I've noticed it's also what pretty much 100% of silver players do. Depends. Enemy does it? I'll do it. While murdering him so I have more gold to establish map control. I usually play support very aggressively and I'm also pretty vocal about available gank paths, wards timings and especially dragon opportunities, so I work pretty hard at making my pinks worth it. And most people in Gold rush sightstone. In Silver people don't rush philo and spam pinks, they rush philo, build sightstone, and are behind in gold compared to me until like 20 minutes later when their philo has paid for itself while I'm using these 700 gold for more useful stuff like HP or pinks to murder their squishy asses.
It's the worst, lol. Philo is an astoundingly bad first buy and pink spamming just costs so many wards later and gives almost no value past controlling the lane bush.
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United States47024 Posts
The main problem with Locket right now is that the Aegis timing along the way is extraordinarily weak now given how 1) the item is no longer cost-efficient for self-stats, and 2) the aura is much less universally useful than it was before.
The completed Locket is still good, but having just the Aegis while you're building your way toward Locket actually kind of sucks. And a jungler's budget typically demands component items that are good along the way.
Ketara you're taking the completed Locket timing and comparing it to various component items. Completed major items are typically strong when you get them--that goes without saying.
Realistically Locket is practical if you can get a laner who can finish it in one go or if you really get fed and can hammer it out fast. But you quite simply don't want to be sitting on the Aegis for a long time versus having items that give immediate combat power.
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On August 21 2013 06:16 Ketara wrote:
Yeah if you want to only be building MR items, rushing SV is probably better than rushing Locket now.
But if you want balanced defensive stats, Locket still seems like a very good buy.
I'll take the warden's mail + SV build. Or chain mail + SV (into sunfire SV) Locket is such an inflexible build and gets you extremely mediocre defense. The aura is mostly useful against AP teams, but against AP teams why am i only getting 20 MR for myself?
If I'm a jungler, I will probably be building this after SOTAG, so I kinda want more resists. If I'm a support, this item is fucking expensive and I expect to finish it only if massive teamfights break out for me to farm assist money and maybe killsteal something. And building up to aegis on supports has always been this giant headache due to sitting on 3 component items when you also expect to have a sightstone, boots, 2 types of wards, and maybe a doran's item. And it doesn't even build out of kindlegem.
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On August 21 2013 06:17 TheYango wrote:
The main problem with Locket right now is that the Aegis timing along the way is extraordinarily weak now given how 1) the item is no longer cost-efficient for self-stats, and 2) the aura is much less universally useful than it was before.
The completed Locket is still good, but having just the Aegis while you're building your way toward Locket actually kind of sucks. And a jungler's budget typically demands component items that are good along the way.
Ketara you're taking the completed Locket timing and comparing it to various component items. Completed major items are typically strong when you get them--that goes without saying.
I do think the buildup is a little awkward. You get way too much out of that 600g to complete the Locket.
Honestly I'd like to see them buff Emblem of Valor a little bit, at least if they want supports to be getting it over junglers. Supports can get an Emblem really easy and if it was cost efficient to sit on while you slowly worked up towards finishing Aegis that would be pretty cool, imo.
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On August 21 2013 06:12 TheYango wrote:
A second DShield would probably be better if the passive weren't unique, but it is, so what can you do.
dblade is a rarer purchase for me because when I have 475, I opt for a ruby crystal for faster sightstone. However, I do know that it's a powerful item and buy it when the occasion calls for it. Usually this means:
1. I play a ranged support, especially Lulu.
and
2. I got a quick first blood or a double kill early. I want to snowball the lane so rather than rushing defensive items, I buy a dblade to play aggressively. It is especially important if I got the early kills and my AD died in the early trades. I want to be the one carrying the lane and let my AD farm safely.
As for the second dshield, I think a ruby crystal is a better buy since the passive doesn't stack.
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On August 21 2013 06:20 AsianEcksDragon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 06:12 TheYango wrote:
A second DShield would probably be better if the passive weren't unique, but it is, so what can you do. dblade is a rarer purchase for me because when I have 475, I opt for a ruby crystal for faster sightstone. However, I do know that it's a powerful item and buy it when the occasion calls for it. Usually this means: 1. I play a ranged support, especially Lulu. and 2. I got a quick first blood or a double kill early. I want to snowball the lane so rather than rushing defensive items, I buy a dblade to play aggressively. It is especially important I got the early kills and my AD died in the early trades. I want to be the one carrying the lane and let my AD farm safely.
I usually get the DShield if I get that first blood. It lets you be in their face a hell of a lot.
Next time I pick up a double kill as lulu early, I'll give a DBlade a shot.
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United States47024 Posts
In retrospect I would have liked Riot nerfing Aegis simply by making it a dead-end item with an appropriate slot/cost-efficiency tradeoff again (while keeping the item decent), but god forbid, Riot considers that sinful or something.
So instead of doing that, Riot gutted Aegis and made it's upgrade really efficient.
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EPT
