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On August 20 2013 09:00 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 08:57 Shelke14 wrote:
morg is so meh. lots of people have jungled her But Monte hasn't, which gives potential for random goofs. Like when he jungled Panth, letting these barely fed Fiddlesticks and Wukong take all the kills instead of manmoding in pure Pantheon style to pad his kda. (At least he'll have a harder time ulting the drake this game.)
Don't talk reason to me Alaric! I didn't see the panth game, was watching the season finale of true blood. spoiler: it fucking sucked
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Monty, I hope you get banned. Hehe
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this morg jungle is fun to watch, i take back what i said. nice double kill top
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On August 20 2013 08:58 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 07:47 sylverfyre wrote:On August 20 2013 06:43 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2013 19:17 mr_tolkien wrote:On August 19 2013 13:00 Live2Win wrote:On August 19 2013 10:30 mr_tolkien wrote:
Ok guys so I'm through with theorycrafting Kayle (and playing a shitton of games with her).
Here is the setup I really like atm :
Runes : Spellvamp quints, AS reds, Ar/MR for the rest
Masteries : 21/0/9
Items : Nash's Tooth -> Lich Bane -> Liandry against fat tanks, Rabadon against squishies -> GA or DFG for maximum kill power.
In fact I don't really like GA since you won't do much when you respawn as Kayle, and you shouldn't die from assassination with your ult.
Spellvamp quints and AS reds are beast for early game though, you can clear wave + wraiths/wolves only with your first DRing. If you afk farm mid you should get nashor's tooth + 2 Drings by 12 minutes. try wit's end. Crazy synergy with her passive, and the AS just makes her out trade pretty much everyone. I usually get it as a second item after nashor's. Wit's end is pretty bad on Kayle. I did the maths and even if you count it like it gives you 25 Mpen outright it's still a bad item for her. Plus you won't be able to afk-auto that much in teamfights, Nash's tooth and AS reds already give you enough AP. Wit's end is really good if 1) you're able to make full use of the MR 2) you can apply the 5 stacks pretty fast (auto reset or stg) 3) You can auto nonstop for a good chunk of time. Wit's is good. At say 25 mr reduction, against a 42 mr ADC you would bring them down to 17 mr. A 21% increase in magic damage.(142/117) You also increase your .638 BAS by 42%. 1/(.638*.42) One extra attack in 3.7 seconds. And you get 42 magic damage Nashors on the other hand: 50% atk spd. 1/(.638*.5)=3.13 seconds for an extra attack. 60AP (factors into Kayle's Q,W,and E)(E gives .4*60)=24 damage 15+15%AP damage = 24 (if you have no other AP) Costs 500 more Total of 48 more damage. I'll finish the math when I get home. I assumed you maxed E. Most people don't especially now that Q's slow scales with levels. You get higher end state dps for 82.1%(2400/2920) of the cost. Your calculations aren't honest. 1 - you have to hit someone 5 times before you have 25 MR shred that you value so heavily in your calculation. Your first Q will probably be on a target you have hit 0-1 times, and not get increased at all. Your first through fifth hit will be on a target with less than 15%+25 MR shred on them. 2 - Kayle really needs CDR for her offensive spells, AND for her defensive utility spells (which don't show up on any kind of damage count theorycraft) Without CDR, downtime on her E leaves a dangerous window open, and her Q cooldown is very important to her too. 3 - "Assuming you have no other AP" Where are your doran's rings? Your runes? Your masteries? Nashor's passive is worth more than that. Especially since you buy MORE AP ITEMS after it. Furthermore, whether you're maxing E or Q doesn't really matter when looking at an AP value's contribution to damage. 60 AP adds the same amount of damage to a level 2 E as it does to a level 5 E. Get wits on on-hitters that do magic damage like Udyr or something. Don't get it on a mage like Kayle. I don't mean it as a 1st item. I meant nashors into wit's end. The combined 90% auto will demolish anyone, yes even tanks (you have crazy pen). And yes, it's not a teamfight item... but if you max Q over E first (which you should), your focus will be doing single target dmg to eliminate someone out of the fight rather than trying to do AOE dmg. Honestly though if you get zerk's+wits+nashors your dmg output is so insane in a short amount of time you'd think she was some sort of ranged caster.
But does Wit's as a second item come anywhere close to the damage you get from finishing Lich Bane as a second item?
With Lich Bane you hit E, swing, Q, swing, and deal ~2000 damage in around 2 seconds. I can't really see how Wit's beats that.
If you're going to for sustained damage over a decent period of time you might as well buy Blade so you have the lifesteal to keep hitting people. Stack that with a Liandry's so you cut off a decent percentage of their current life per hit just to be funny.
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On August 20 2013 08:12 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 07:49 WiseBagus wrote:On August 20 2013 05:06 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 20 2013 02:20 WiseBagus wrote:On August 20 2013 02:11 sylverfyre wrote:On August 20 2013 02:10 Badboyrune wrote:On August 20 2013 02:05 sylverfyre wrote:On August 20 2013 01:51 WiseBagus wrote:On August 20 2013 01:45 Seuss wrote:Operation Jungle Japers is go. For the rest of the day, with a few interruptions, I will be jungling whatever the peanut gallery tells me to. http://www.twitch.tv/montegomerylol gg no 240P what is this 2018? Data caps in Canada hurt. I think you need to be a twitch partner or paying for some kind of upgrade in order to have multiple resolutions? You do. But if you have a decent connection (you know like they have in civilized countries like Sweden) they will allow your sole resolution to be things like 1080p@60fps. 1080p as your sole resolution will mean a lot of people can't watch your stream (anyone with capped bandwidth like the canada person, or people with even average-but-not-amazing internet connections) I can watch 1080p myself, but not if me or my fiancee is doing anything else that's noticably load-bearing with our net connection. 720p is a good middle ground. I did not know that. I can handle 1080 stream just not when I have a data cap of 120GB every month. I hereby show solidarity----Canadian internet sucks horse dicks. I had that same issue until only recently. Rogers only very recently allowed an option to add unlimited bandwidth and we got it immediately. Who's your provider? It is Rogers, but I am moving away to experience university internet now, so the timing is awful. University internet is glorious. I get 110 down, 70 up. Download speeds are acceptable at home, 15 down, but 1mbps up(advertised) is more like 7-800kbps on a good day. At least it's unlimited.
Upgrading to 45 down, 4 up. Enough for even better streaming and now that we have unlimited I can actually watch streams in 1080 without checking my bandwidth usage every 10 seconds, and keeping track of what season of TV my wife has downloaded this month.
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The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2013 09:09 Roffles wrote:
Monty, I hope you get banned. Hehe
If he does, I'm banning you here.
Solidarity.
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On August 20 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote:
The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol.
So jelly.
Never had less than 70-80 ping.
#eastcoastproblems
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On August 20 2013 06:50 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 06:43 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2013 19:17 mr_tolkien wrote:On August 19 2013 13:00 Live2Win wrote:On August 19 2013 10:30 mr_tolkien wrote:
Ok guys so I'm through with theorycrafting Kayle (and playing a shitton of games with her).
Here is the setup I really like atm :
Runes : Spellvamp quints, AS reds, Ar/MR for the rest
Masteries : 21/0/9
Items : Nash's Tooth -> Lich Bane -> Liandry against fat tanks, Rabadon against squishies -> GA or DFG for maximum kill power.
In fact I don't really like GA since you won't do much when you respawn as Kayle, and you shouldn't die from assassination with your ult.
Spellvamp quints and AS reds are beast for early game though, you can clear wave + wraiths/wolves only with your first DRing. If you afk farm mid you should get nashor's tooth + 2 Drings by 12 minutes. try wit's end. Crazy synergy with her passive, and the AS just makes her out trade pretty much everyone. I usually get it as a second item after nashor's. Wit's end is pretty bad on Kayle. I did the maths and even if you count it like it gives you 25 Mpen outright it's still a bad item for her. Plus you won't be able to afk-auto that much in teamfights, Nash's tooth and AS reds already give you enough AP. Wit's end is really good if 1) you're able to make full use of the MR 2) you can apply the 5 stacks pretty fast (auto reset or stg) 3) You can auto nonstop for a good chunk of time. Wit's is good. At say 25 mr reduction, against a 42 mr ADC you would bring them down to 17 mr. A 21% increase in magic damage.(142/117) You also increase your .638 BAS by 42%. 1/(.638*.42) One extra attack in 3.7 seconds. And you get 42 magic damage Nashors on the other hand: 50% atk spd. 1/(.638*.5)=3.13 seconds for an extra attack. 60AP (factors into Kayle's Q,W,and E)(E gives .4*60)=24 damage 15+15%AP damage = 24 (if you have no other AP) Costs 500 more Total of 48 more damage. I'll finish the math when I get home. You get higher end state dps for 82.1%(2400/2920) of the cost. No it's terrible I promise you. You'll never ever ever never ever land more than 5 autos on an AD, and CDR is absolutely KEY to your DPS and sticking power. Nashor's tooth also brings you additionnal AP scaling which is good for the rest of your build. Wit's is a really good item, just not on Kayle because she doesn't give 2 shits about the MR and doesn't have the sticking power of a bruiser/offtank.
If she's going mid there are lots of situations where you'd rather have up to 50mr. The difference between 50 mr and 25 is like the difference between getting brought to 50% by a combo and going ham and getting brought to 25% and having to back off.
If you're going to judge wits followed by ap builds, can I judge nashors followed by AD builds or tank builds?
On August 20 2013 07:21 beefhamburger wrote:
No way is wits better on kayle than nashors. Sure, if it's your ONLY item it might be better, but no one stays on one item the whole game. Pretty much what tolkien said above. The only thing wits really synergizes with is E, you'll be using Q to start off and won't get the wit's mr reduction at that point. And without the CDR, you'll be doing nothing once your E runs out for quite a while.
It has pretty miserable scaling going into late game and doesn't synergize with any of your future items.
Same as above. On hit items like Runaan's and botrk and muramana and mallet work decently well. I can't prove it, but I think Runaan's would have more AoE damage than AP builds.
On August 20 2013 07:47 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 06:43 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2013 19:17 mr_tolkien wrote:On August 19 2013 13:00 Live2Win wrote:On August 19 2013 10:30 mr_tolkien wrote:
Ok guys so I'm through with theorycrafting Kayle (and playing a shitton of games with her).
Here is the setup I really like atm :
Runes : Spellvamp quints, AS reds, Ar/MR for the rest
Masteries : 21/0/9
Items : Nash's Tooth -> Lich Bane -> Liandry against fat tanks, Rabadon against squishies -> GA or DFG for maximum kill power.
In fact I don't really like GA since you won't do much when you respawn as Kayle, and you shouldn't die from assassination with your ult.
Spellvamp quints and AS reds are beast for early game though, you can clear wave + wraiths/wolves only with your first DRing. If you afk farm mid you should get nashor's tooth + 2 Drings by 12 minutes. try wit's end. Crazy synergy with her passive, and the AS just makes her out trade pretty much everyone. I usually get it as a second item after nashor's. Wit's end is pretty bad on Kayle. I did the maths and even if you count it like it gives you 25 Mpen outright it's still a bad item for her. Plus you won't be able to afk-auto that much in teamfights, Nash's tooth and AS reds already give you enough AP. Wit's end is really good if 1) you're able to make full use of the MR 2) you can apply the 5 stacks pretty fast (auto reset or stg) 3) You can auto nonstop for a good chunk of time. Wit's is good. At say 25 mr reduction, against a 42 mr ADC you would bring them down to 17 mr. A 21% increase in magic damage.(142/117) You also increase your .638 BAS by 42%. 1/(.638*.42) One extra attack in 3.7 seconds. And you get 42 magic damage Nashors on the other hand: 50% atk spd. 1/(.638*.5)=3.13 seconds for an extra attack. 60AP (factors into Kayle's Q,W,and E)(E gives .4*60)=24 damage 15+15%AP damage = 24 (if you have no other AP) Costs 500 more Total of 48 more damage. I'll finish the math when I get home. I assumed you maxed E. Most people don't especially now that Q's slow scales with levels. You get higher end state dps for 82.1%(2400/2920) of the cost. Your calculations aren't honest. 1 - you have to hit someone 5 times before you have 25 MR shred that you value so heavily in your calculation. Your first Q will probably be on a target you have hit 0-1 times, and not get increased at all. Your first through fifth hit will be on a target with less than 15%+25 MR shred on them. 2 - Kayle really needs CDR for her offensive spells, AND for her defensive utility spells (which don't show up on any kind of damage count theorycraft) Without CDR, downtime on her E leaves a dangerous window open, and her Q cooldown is very important to her too. 3 - "Assuming you have no other AP" Where are your doran's rings? Your runes? Your masteries? Nashor's passive is worth more than that. Especially since you buy MORE AP ITEMS after it. Furthermore, whether you're maxing E or Q doesn't really matter when looking at an AP value's contribution to damage. 60 AP adds the same amount of damage to a level 2 E as it does to a level 5 E. Get wits on on-hitters that do magic damage like Udyr or something. Don't get it on a mage like Kayle.
I could write a thesis on Kayle theorycraft. For the sake of brevity I did not.
1. Tolkien said even with max stacks wits was shit. I tried to prove otherwise. If you give me that opening, I'll take it.
2. She needs CDR for her E. That can't be argued. But there are tradeoffs with every build.
3. Again, wit's is better for an on-hit build. Kayle is one of the best users of on hit in the game since her E provides on hit damage.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 20 2013 09:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote:
The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol. So jelly. Never had less than 70-80 ping. #eastcoastproblems
Riot hates the east coast.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On August 20 2013 09:40 NeoIllusions wrote:If he does, I'm banning you here. Solidarity.
Wow, can this guy do this? I sense some mod abuse.
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Monte managed to get a positive kda just to piss Neo off, gotta release his anger somewhere.
Also jungle Taric legit until people go do random shit and throw away the lead you gave them.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2013 09:51 Alaric wrote:
Monte managed to get a positive kda just to piss Neo off, gotta release his anger somewhere.
Also jungle Taric legit until people go do random shit and throw away the lead you gave them.
wot? I like Monte. He's even fun police'd with me before.
Alaric, I am disappoint.
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Like I'd pass on any pretext to slander you. Who knows, maybe one day I'll hit the mark.
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On August 20 2013 10:04 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 09:51 Alaric wrote:
Monte managed to get a positive kda just to piss Neo off, gotta release his anger somewhere.
Also jungle Taric legit until people go do random shit and throw away the lead you gave them. wot? I like Monte. He's even fun police'd with me before. Alaric, I am disappoint.
NOOOO I was in the process of making an authentic looking alaric, I am disappoint quote by neo and there's actually a timely response. Curses.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2013 10:08 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 20 2013 09:51 Alaric wrote:
Monte managed to get a positive kda just to piss Neo off, gotta release his anger somewhere.
Also jungle Taric legit until people go do random shit and throw away the lead you gave them. wot? I like Monte. He's even fun police'd with me before. Alaric, I am disappoint. NOOOO I was in the process of making an authentic looking alaric, I am disappoint quote by neo and there's actually a timely response. Curses.
There are plenty of opportunities every week.
No worries, upperb.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 20 2013 10:14 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:08 upperbound wrote:On August 20 2013 10:04 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 20 2013 09:51 Alaric wrote:
Monte managed to get a positive kda just to piss Neo off, gotta release his anger somewhere.
Also jungle Taric legit until people go do random shit and throw away the lead you gave them. wot? I like Monte. He's even fun police'd with me before. Alaric, I am disappoint. NOOOO I was in the process of making an authentic looking alaric, I am disappoint quote by neo and there's actually a timely response. Curses. There are plenty of opportunities every week. No worries, upperb.
A lot of disappointment in this forum.
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On August 20 2013 09:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote:
The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol. So jelly. Never had less than 70-80 ping. #eastcoastproblems
What about 190-220 China ping :/
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On August 20 2013 09:43 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 09:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:On August 20 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote:
The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol. So jelly. Never had less than 70-80 ping. #eastcoastproblems Riot hates the east coast.
Transfer to LAN and learn spanish, better ping.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 20 2013 10:35 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 09:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 20 2013 09:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:On August 20 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote:
The greatest thing about university internet was the 8 ping on lol. So jelly. Never had less than 70-80 ping. #eastcoastproblems Riot hates the east coast. Transfer to LAN and learn spanish, better ping.
Me no gusta
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EPT
