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On August 17 2013 00:54 SagaZ wrote:
Is the phage/triforce mvmt speed buff something melee only?
Cause I see alot of people talking about it like it's going to be a melee bruiser item when as I see it it's going to make stuff like corki go vroom vroom and kitting even harder
if anything, they'd make it like old phage -- make the MS bonus larger for melees than ranged
it might take them a patch or two though - see original iceborn gaunlet
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get phage on koreanplank, Q them which slows them down from your passive and speeds you up from phage, melee range, apply more passive stacks.
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United States47024 Posts
Does thew new Phage "on-kill" MS trigger off last-hits as well as champion kills? Because if so, I can think of a few edge cases that seem somewhat abusive.
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If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP
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I think part of their thinking was to replace the RNG with "do I have a low enemy minion nearby"
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On August 17 2013 00:48 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:40 Requizen wrote:
You're really overestimating how much damage Flame Breath does. It's not going to kill even ranged minions even at max rank (maybe if you proc the mark or something, depends on math). And getting in range to shoot them at ranged minions puts you well within Teemo's threat zone. He's not going to be standing behind his minions, he's going to be standing behind yours and zoning you out. Then teemo gets hit along with the minions and loses a war of attrition since he can't attack you back without aggroing all your minions.
Teemo's Blinding Dart does (approximately) the same amount of damage as Flame Breath baseline at all levels of the skill. Two E-empowered auto attacks do a bit more damage as Flame Breath at all equivalent skill levels. Flame Breath, Blinding Dart, and Toxic Shot all scale off AP, but guess who out of the two of them is going to build AP and MPen? Teemo's standard combo is Auto-Q-Auto, so trading Flame Breath and a couple minion hits (which can be mitigated with brush control) for more than double the damage every time is more than a win in Teemo's favor.
Show nested quote +Usually you'd be able to get in range of the melee minions maybe, and then an E will do a fraction of their health. That's not pushing a wave by any means, and if you're trying to last hit with something on a 12/11/10/9/8 second CD, you're going to be really hard pressed to keep up in CS.
A single shroom to push a lane still gives Teemo plenty of fighting and kiting power. I get CDR in his build pretty much 100% of the time (whether from Nashor's, Morello's, or DFG), so I always have more Shrooms than I know what to do with. One shroom with a decent AP item will kill ranged minions and put melee and siege minions into last hitting range, while even a max rank E from Shy won't do anything near that.
I think this is just a lack of knowledge about Teemo. So.. somehow using flame breath won't deal nearly enough damage to last hit with or even push a lane at all, but 1 shroom does enough with 200 base damage? Its not much stronger than flame breath even from 6 until 9 where it actually does less damage. you are trying to math things out with more items than you are going to have during laning. Shyvana should be having an easy time just farming and never dying or being bullied by teemo. certainly she's also far better at pushing an empty lane, as well as team fighting. and if teemo is ever ganked by a jungler hes going to die if he's trying to play anything but safely under tower.
A rank 5 Flame Breath ONLY outdamages the base amount of rank 1 Shrooms by 20, and with easy positioning shrooms hits the whole wave. Flame Breath is going to hit maybe 3 because it's a line nuke unless she can stand in front of the wave while it's conga-lining down without Teemo harassing her (read: never).
Again: if you're sitting back trying to pick off farm with E, I'll double your CS and then push your shit to the tower, where shrooms/Q/autos will harass you with little to no counter play outside of waiting for the jungler to come.
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Teemo is a lane bully who has range and sprints and blinds. Shy is a melee only auto attacker with no jump or CC. How in the hell do you even think that's a close matchup?
Edit for clarity
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On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP
This really needs to happen.
In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them.
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ok at this point it's either a toplane showmatch of a fist fight
whatever you choose plz stream it
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On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them.
a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring.
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On August 17 2013 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them. a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring.
Not if you get wave to cast it!
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On August 17 2013 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them. a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring.
You're just proving how little you know about Teemo. He's not going to turn it into a farm lane, he's going to kill you or harass you so hard you'll be going back before the third wave.
When you say "dependent on jungler interaction", what you really mean is "the jungler better camp the shit out of my lane otherwise Teemo will double my farm, take my tower, and maybe kill me".
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United States23745 Posts
On August 16 2013 14:59 FinestHour wrote:
twisted fate ult broke and was bringing 2 people across the map with global range and 60 second cd
lol, I see what you did there.
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Is Death Blossom Elise worth the RP?
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On August 17 2013 01:18 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them. a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring. You're just proving how little you know about Teemo. He's not going to turn it into a farm lane, he's going to kill you or harass you so hard you'll be going back before the third wave. When you say "dependent on jungler interaction", what you really mean is "the jungler better camp the shit out of my lane otherwise Teemo will double my farm, take my tower, and maybe kill me".
PX, you have been slapped across the face with the dueling glove.
Do you accept?
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On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:48 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 00:40 Requizen wrote:
You're really overestimating how much damage Flame Breath does. It's not going to kill even ranged minions even at max rank (maybe if you proc the mark or something, depends on math). And getting in range to shoot them at ranged minions puts you well within Teemo's threat zone. He's not going to be standing behind his minions, he's going to be standing behind yours and zoning you out. Then teemo gets hit along with the minions and loses a war of attrition since he can't attack you back without aggroing all your minions. Teemo's Blinding Dart does (approximately) the same amount of damage as Flame Breath baseline at all levels of the skill. Two E-empowered auto attacks do a bit more damage as Flame Breath at all equivalent skill levels. Flame Breath, Blinding Dart, and Toxic Shot all scale off AP, but guess who out of the two of them is going to build AP and MPen? Teemo's standard combo is Auto-Q-Auto, so trading Flame Breath and a couple minion hits (which can be mitigated with brush control) for more than double the damage every time is more than a win in Teemo's favor.
Its actually just never going to happen that you get into auto range and prevent flame breath from hitting the wave. unless you are standing 400 units behind the enemy wave, in which case, you aren't really even going to live until 6. Besides from flame breath actually hitting all 6 minions when you aim it properly, which you already showed you don't know, maxing Q for the trade damage means that your toxic shot is level 1, which is 34 damage or after mitigation about 20. once Shyvana gets a cowl, it does effectively no damage at all.
of course teemo doesn't WANT it to be a farm matchup, but he can't do anything but let it be a farm matchup unless he's vastly better than the shyvana player. He just doesn't have anything to stop shyvana from farming. pretty much no tops do.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 17 2013 01:24 Requizen wrote:
Is Death Blossom Elise worth the RP?
I like the skin, I'd say it's worth the on sale price.
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IMO Death Blossom Elise is significantly worse than the default skin.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 17 2013 01:27 Shikyo wrote:
IMO Death Blossom Elise is significantly worse than the default skin.
Yeeeeeeup. Much like Dark Valkyrie Diana.
Edit: Oh, and speaking of skins, I had a great idea last night for a Stephen Colbert Jarvan IV. American flag... he even does the Cataclysm animation in the opening of the show. PERFECT.
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On August 17 2013 00:48 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 14:39 cLutZ wrote:On August 16 2013 12:45 Zdrastochye wrote:On August 16 2013 12:30 cLutZ wrote:On August 16 2013 12:25 Zdrastochye wrote:
I like giving movespeed more than taking movespeed away, so I approve of the changes. It helps the bearer without negatively impacting the person they're attacking, making it less important on odd man fights and more important in 1v1 situations. Meh, I think slows are better than ms boosts as a rule, mostly because of how this game calculates them. Also, IMO, even if Ghost was given the old Surge as a bonus, IMO Exhaust would still be a stronger combat skill for the majority of champs. No no, I do think slows are better than ms boosts, I like that it's getting a minor nerf. Why? Think of the phage users, none of them are good right now. But by changing phage, hopefully they wont make it this awkward item that is unbalancable. When it was ~1200 gold, it was so cost efficient that you were basically buying 2 doran blades + a slow (anything that approaches doran blades in cost efficiency is really damn efficient) so if you were winning lane you would use the slowproc to crush it. Now it's too expensive for that, but the item is so inefficient that you can't really buy it. If they move it to a MS buff that isnt RNG based then hopefully it can find a happy place where it isnt so retarded to play against at the 6 minute mark when you're a little behind?
What I'm really interested in is if the 2 second 60 movespeed increase also happens on minion kills.
Think of that on Irelia. You bladesurge to kill a minion and then bladesurge again to get into melee range of the enemy with a free 60 movespeed already. Or when running away from a gank you bladesurge to a minion behind you for a jump away and a movespeed increase.
Also, since Frozen Mallet and Trinity's passives are different now, Irelia could get both, which would give her pretty ridic sticking power in teamfights.
Alternatively, think of it on ranged duellist top laners like Vayne or Quinn. Grab a Phage on them and every time you last hit a minion you get enough movespeed to really easily move up and get an auto on the enemy melee champ.
Also for people who already have slows it's an improvement, since multiple different slows have diminishing returns. Gangplank for example (although he's still bad)
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EPT
