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On August 17 2013 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them. a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring.
Well you can just tailor the win conditions:
Kill or tower are wins
If Shyv gets to 100 CS without being down more than 20 Shyv wins?
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On August 17 2013 01:24 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:On August 17 2013 00:48 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 00:40 Requizen wrote:
You're really overestimating how much damage Flame Breath does. It's not going to kill even ranged minions even at max rank (maybe if you proc the mark or something, depends on math). And getting in range to shoot them at ranged minions puts you well within Teemo's threat zone. He's not going to be standing behind his minions, he's going to be standing behind yours and zoning you out. Then teemo gets hit along with the minions and loses a war of attrition since he can't attack you back without aggroing all your minions. Teemo's Blinding Dart does (approximately) the same amount of damage as Flame Breath baseline at all levels of the skill. Two E-empowered auto attacks do a bit more damage as Flame Breath at all equivalent skill levels. Flame Breath, Blinding Dart, and Toxic Shot all scale off AP, but guess who out of the two of them is going to build AP and MPen? Teemo's standard combo is Auto-Q-Auto, so trading Flame Breath and a couple minion hits (which can be mitigated with brush control) for more than double the damage every time is more than a win in Teemo's favor. Its actually just never going to happen that you get into auto range and prevent flame breath from hitting the wave. unless you are standing 400 units behind the enemy wave, in which case, you aren't really even going to live until 6. Besides from flame breath actually hitting all 6 minions when you aim it properly, which you already showed you don't know, maxing Q for the trade damage means that your toxic shot is level 1, which is 34 damage or after mitigation about 20. once Shyvana gets a cowl, it does effectively no damage at all. of course teemo doesn't WANT it to be a farm matchup, but he can't do anything but let it be a farm matchup unless he's vastly better than the shyvana player. He just doesn't have anything to stop shyvana from farming. pretty much no tops do.
Are you starting the game with a Cowl? Your passive and mastery MR is basically nothing for the first few levels, it's going to get negated by Teemo's masteries and runes. By the time you get a big MR item, he'll have Guise at the least. Not to mention that mixed damage is much harder to itemize for.
I think your idea of ranges are a bit off. Her E isn't this giant sniper rifle gatling gun that can hit a minion wave from the other side of the lane and be used every couple seconds, it's a pretty long CD on a moderately ranged, thin line skillshot. You have to be pretty much in your own minion wave to hit the enemy wave, which Teemo is in no way going to let you do.
And as to "not surviving until 6", just lol. You really think a E every 12-10 seconds (based on levels and if you took CDR masteries) is going to out trade mixed damage autos and Blinding Dart? Shy has literally 0 chance to actually put auto damage on Teemo if he has any knowledge about how to move and shoot. If he maxes E, you're going to get chunked every time he decides to put 2+ autos on you (usually more like 3-4 at any given time), if he maxes Q even Flash-Ghost-Ult won't let you put any damage on him because for the 2 seconds you are in melee range, you can't hit him.
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On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean?
Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6.
Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game?
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United States23745 Posts
You guys are crazy, the Death Blossom spider looks so cool. Nothing is as bad as Diana's first skin.
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Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying.
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On August 17 2013 01:38 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean? Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6. Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game?
Once Teemo gets a single point in W (generally around 3-4), he is faster than Shy at all points in time except for the first 1 (maybe 2) second of Burnout (before the decay takes effect). So outside of ulting, the only way Shy catches Teemo is if she is within spitting distance, runs at him, and hits Burnout. And then, for the 2 seconds you are in melee range? Lolblind.
How is Dragon's Descent a 600 damage burst? First, that relies on you landing R (iffy) and then E (slightly more likely), getting him to stand in your W for the duration (decent chance) and then getting an unmitigated auto-Q combo off (LOLBLIND). I guess if the Teemo stands there and lets you? You can't stun him to get him in place or anything, being Shyvana and all.
Even if you land it, unless you hook around him and jump him back towards your tower (unlikely), you're just pushing him towards his own tower, where he'll run to until your burnout wears off, then turn and shoot you repeatedly in the scaly butt.
If Shy goes to auto minions for last hits under tower, she's taking more than half her health in harass. Guaranteed. Which leaves her to E under tower, which gets her... 2 minions per wave? Maybe?
On August 17 2013 01:39 kainzero wrote:
Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying.
I'm at work for another 6 hours + Show Spoiler +and then have models to craft :3
Besides, PX what is your ranking? I know I'm pretty bad, you generally want 2 people of the same caliber skill at the specific champion for this.
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I dont know if anyone watched state of the game ep 100 last night, but as someone who used to religiously follow this show like 2 years ago, it was great seeing that cast back together. It even got pretty emotional at times, especially towards the end.
Watching all of them praise the LCS model was also pretty cool, even though the amount of basically mod encouraged Dota > LoL in the chat was kind of annoying when the subject was brought up.
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On August 17 2013 01:58 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:38 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean? Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6. Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game? Once Teemo gets a single point in W (generally around 3-4), he is faster than Shy at all points in time except for the first 1 (maybe 2) second of Burnout (before the decay takes effect). So outside of ulting, the only way Shy catches Teemo is if she is within spitting distance, runs at him, and hits Burnout. And then, for the 2 seconds you are in melee range? Lolblind. How is Dragon's Descent a 600 damage burst? First, that relies on you landing R (iffy) and then E (slightly more likely), getting him to stand in your W for the duration (decent chance) and then getting an unmitigated auto-Q combo off (LOLBLIND). I guess if the Teemo stands there and lets you? You can't stun him to get him in place or anything, being Shyvana and all. Even if you land it, unless you hook around him and jump him back towards your tower (unlikely), you're just pushing him towards his own tower, where he'll run to until your burnout wears off, then turn and shoot you repeatedly in the scaly butt. If Shy goes to auto minions for last hits under tower, she's taking more than half her health in harass. Guaranteed. Which leaves her to E under tower, which gets her... 2 minions per wave? Maybe? Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:39 kainzero wrote:
Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying. I'm at work for another 6 hours + Show Spoiler +and then have models to craft :3 Besides, PX what is your ranking? I know I'm pretty bad, you generally want 2 people of the same caliber skill at the specific champion for this.
It's not about skill, or even about who's right or wrong.
It's for the entertainment of TL as a whole.
And e-peen.
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On August 17 2013 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:58 Requizen wrote:On August 17 2013 01:38 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean? Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6. Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game? Once Teemo gets a single point in W (generally around 3-4), he is faster than Shy at all points in time except for the first 1 (maybe 2) second of Burnout (before the decay takes effect). So outside of ulting, the only way Shy catches Teemo is if she is within spitting distance, runs at him, and hits Burnout. And then, for the 2 seconds you are in melee range? Lolblind. How is Dragon's Descent a 600 damage burst? First, that relies on you landing R (iffy) and then E (slightly more likely), getting him to stand in your W for the duration (decent chance) and then getting an unmitigated auto-Q combo off (LOLBLIND). I guess if the Teemo stands there and lets you? You can't stun him to get him in place or anything, being Shyvana and all. Even if you land it, unless you hook around him and jump him back towards your tower (unlikely), you're just pushing him towards his own tower, where he'll run to until your burnout wears off, then turn and shoot you repeatedly in the scaly butt. If Shy goes to auto minions for last hits under tower, she's taking more than half her health in harass. Guaranteed. Which leaves her to E under tower, which gets her... 2 minions per wave? Maybe? On August 17 2013 01:39 kainzero wrote:
Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying. I'm at work for another 6 hours + Show Spoiler +and then have models to craft :3 Besides, PX what is your ranking? I know I'm pretty bad, you generally want 2 people of the same caliber skill at the specific champion for this. It's not about skill, or even about who's right or wrong. It's for the entertainment of TL as a whole. And e-peen.
I only join fights I know I can win.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
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On August 17 2013 01:24 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:18 Requizen wrote:On August 17 2013 01:16 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:13 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:08 xes wrote:
If Req and PX play and stream a Shyv vs Teemo Bo7 1v1 grudgematch I will give the winner $5 in RP This really needs to happen. In fact since I'm getting home in a few days I may be able to finally start streaming again---I'd love to stream grudgematches when people have them. a grudge match of a farm matchup dependent on jungler interaction would be incredibly boring. You're just proving how little you know about Teemo. He's not going to turn it into a farm lane, he's going to kill you or harass you so hard you'll be going back before the third wave. When you say "dependent on jungler interaction", what you really mean is "the jungler better camp the shit out of my lane otherwise Teemo will double my farm, take my tower, and maybe kill me". PX, you have been slapped across the face with the dueling glove. Do you accept?
He hasn't just been slapped in the face with the gauntlet at this point. Req is like fisting his mom with it right now @_@.
God this is like grade school recess with "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!"
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On August 17 2013 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 01:58 Requizen wrote:On August 17 2013 01:38 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean? Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6. Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game? Once Teemo gets a single point in W (generally around 3-4), he is faster than Shy at all points in time except for the first 1 (maybe 2) second of Burnout (before the decay takes effect). So outside of ulting, the only way Shy catches Teemo is if she is within spitting distance, runs at him, and hits Burnout. And then, for the 2 seconds you are in melee range? Lolblind. How is Dragon's Descent a 600 damage burst? First, that relies on you landing R (iffy) and then E (slightly more likely), getting him to stand in your W for the duration (decent chance) and then getting an unmitigated auto-Q combo off (LOLBLIND). I guess if the Teemo stands there and lets you? You can't stun him to get him in place or anything, being Shyvana and all. Even if you land it, unless you hook around him and jump him back towards your tower (unlikely), you're just pushing him towards his own tower, where he'll run to until your burnout wears off, then turn and shoot you repeatedly in the scaly butt. If Shy goes to auto minions for last hits under tower, she's taking more than half her health in harass. Guaranteed. Which leaves her to E under tower, which gets her... 2 minions per wave? Maybe? On August 17 2013 01:39 kainzero wrote:
Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying. I'm at work for another 6 hours + Show Spoiler +and then have models to craft :3 Besides, PX what is your ranking? I know I'm pretty bad, you generally want 2 people of the same caliber skill at the specific champion for this. It's not about skill, or even about who's right or wrong. It's for the entertainment of TL as a whole. And e-peen.
Just think, when we all have our Riot American Express cards we could actually bet on Requizen vs. PX /trollface
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Someone record it too, so I can watch it later
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On August 17 2013 02:23 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 17 2013 01:58 Requizen wrote:On August 17 2013 01:38 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 17 2013 01:09 Requizen wrote:
How is Teemo any more susceptible to ganks than Shy? She should never reach him herself (shrooms + move quick + her having 0 CC), she can't assist a gank, and with decent warding and shrooming no jungler should ever get in range outside of really jump heavy guys like Zac E, Jarvan using EQ -> ult, or maybe Hecarim if he can avoid getting slowed. Shy has the same sort of escape (run faster), and maybe blowing her ult to jump away.
Apart from being objectively faster than teemo, far tankier, and having a 1000 range jump on a 1 minute or less CD you mean? Shrooms are avoidable, movequick doesn't make teemo faster than shyvana, and shyvana has a drag type mechanic as well as dealing 600 damage in burst at level 6. Teemo doesn't have shrooms pre 6 period, so claiming shrooms as a defense against ganks when teemo is going to be ganked and killed for even attempting to play as aggressive as you are suggesting he should be playing (400 units behind the enemy minion wave, really, that's just outside of tower range at regular equilibrium, which we we won't be at because you said you are going to be shoving the lane against someone who last hits under tower very well. and somehow getting double the cs even though denies aren't in the game? Once Teemo gets a single point in W (generally around 3-4), he is faster than Shy at all points in time except for the first 1 (maybe 2) second of Burnout (before the decay takes effect). So outside of ulting, the only way Shy catches Teemo is if she is within spitting distance, runs at him, and hits Burnout. And then, for the 2 seconds you are in melee range? Lolblind. How is Dragon's Descent a 600 damage burst? First, that relies on you landing R (iffy) and then E (slightly more likely), getting him to stand in your W for the duration (decent chance) and then getting an unmitigated auto-Q combo off (LOLBLIND). I guess if the Teemo stands there and lets you? You can't stun him to get him in place or anything, being Shyvana and all. Even if you land it, unless you hook around him and jump him back towards your tower (unlikely), you're just pushing him towards his own tower, where he'll run to until your burnout wears off, then turn and shoot you repeatedly in the scaly butt. If Shy goes to auto minions for last hits under tower, she's taking more than half her health in harass. Guaranteed. Which leaves her to E under tower, which gets her... 2 minions per wave? Maybe? On August 17 2013 01:39 kainzero wrote:
Play it out already. This theorycrafting is annoying. I'm at work for another 6 hours + Show Spoiler +and then have models to craft :3 Besides, PX what is your ranking? I know I'm pretty bad, you generally want 2 people of the same caliber skill at the specific champion for this. It's not about skill, or even about who's right or wrong. It's for the entertainment of TL as a whole. And e-peen. Just think, when we all have our Riot American Express cards we could actually bet on Requizen vs. PX /trollface
HOLY YES
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On August 17 2013 02:24 Osmoses wrote:
Someone record it too, so I can watch it later
I don't think it's going to happen, sadly.
Maybe I should try and incite animosity amongst TL members so we can actually get a bunch of these.
1) Who was 5HIT mad at in the inhouses lately? Ketara?
GRUDGEMATCH
2) Neo v Alaric: I Am Disappoint
3) .....?
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Like I said, PX if you're in the Silver/Gold ranking area I'll gladly jump into it with you, I just don't want it to be one sided because I'm playing with someone above my paygrade. I don't keep track of people's ranks outside of the top end dudes.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 17 2013 02:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:24 Osmoses wrote:
Someone record it too, so I can watch it later I don't think it's going to happen, sadly. Maybe I should try and incite animosity amongst TL members so we can actually get a bunch of these. 1) Who was 5HIT mad at in the inhouses lately? Ketara? GRUDGEMATCH 2) Neo v Alaric: I Am Disappoint 3) .....?
I'll fight owb 1v1 to prove who's the better NA writer.
+ Show Spoiler +spoiler: in this game everyone loses
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Well considering the teams you two support, I guess as long as you'll draw inspiration from your idols it'll be somewhat entertaining.
How much can a 1v1 be thrown?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Please make it happen. Don't flake out. Please. I need to see this. I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to see this. Please don't deprive me of great entertainment.
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EPT
