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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:16 NeoIllusions wrote: One of Riot's best designed champions imo. I stopped playing him after the proxy craze. ;; I think he's the best designed straight up. he's like... everything riot does right. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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XaCez
Sweden6991 Posts
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: did you know singed is anagram for design? mind = blown =O Did you know that 50% of all League players are below average? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:36 nafta wrote: Why would you look at overall soloq winrate when you compare champs lol? Talon is too jungler dependant imo.You WILL get camped most likely and if your jungler doesn't cover your ass you can barely farm. wards | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:36 nafta wrote: Why would you look at overall soloq winrate when you compare champs lol? Talon is too jungler dependant imo.You WILL get camped most likely and if your jungler doesn't cover your ass you can barely farm. Dunno, being used to play Panth and other escape-less champs in the way less forgiving top lane, I don't see how you would be unable to farm mid as a character with ranged wave clear. Talon is underrated and a very good assassin. He's just not FotM like Zed is (for pretty much no reason since his E nerf). | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On August 10 2013 20:37 mr_tolkien wrote: Dunno, being used to play Panth and other escape-less champs in the way less forgiving top lane, I don't see how you would be unable to farm mid as a character with ranged wave clear. Talon is underrated and a very good assassin. He's just not FotM like Zed is (for pretty much no reason since his E nerf). Talon is certainly a good assassin. But Zed offers so much more to a team then just assassination ability. No professional team is going to pick Talon over Zed. Like I said earlier, Talon IMO is the best designed assassin in the game. Zed is just... too much. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
I really like champions who can do everything, but in a unique way that has specific strengths and counterplays to those strengths but isn't automatically destroyed by those. Like Singed for example is weak against poke but he can build tanky and splitpush which can be counterplayed by smart ganks which can be counterplayed by good ult timings and warding, which can be counterplayed by sustain and counterpushing because singed is less of a threat if he holds ult for ganks. His kit allows him to initiate but CC and mb a shureilas on the other side can stop it and waste precious ult time, so you have to find angles or other ways to start a fight. Alot of other unique and interesting champions come to mind when I think this way: Jarvan, TF, Varus, all the supports except soraka, mao, lee sin, nidalee, lux... Well all those who have a good amount of damage, utility (and mb tankyness for melees), but kinda unique weaknesses and strengths. The champs I don't like are all pretty 1 dimensional. For example I generally don't like pure autoattack melee dps champions that much. Yi, rengar particularly. Fiora is kind of cool though because her ult gives her that unique thing again. I really hate Yorick and Vlad. I hate Vlad so much I have to play him from time to time just to realize how stupid that champion is. I even hate him when I play him and myself while playing him. Vlad and Yorick are IMO the champs that riot should only keep on their pool so they never design champions again this way. Also nerf them to crap pls. I rather get kited by a nidalee or jayce all day in top lane, than slowly getting sustained to death. Why did riot think it is a good idea to give the most massive sustain champs skills that can't be dodged or counterplayed except by running from them? Those champs are balanced in a way that you can beat them (if you didn't get counterpicked ofc) if you play aggressive at the right times so they don't get to that sweet spot where they just sustain kill you. Why didn't they make their sustain a skill shot? or something with charges (like caits passive, kassadins E etc.)? Or itemization specific (like you can lifesteal from ghouls, or a self healing increase passive)? Like for example GPs sustain is fine, because it's high cooldown and has an important additional effect so it can't just be used on spam mode. Yorick and Vlad's sustain should constantly be used. There is no downside in using it and no counterplay. Chogath has to CS to get his health back, so if you play agressive and dodge his skillshots you can prevent him from doing it for a while so he has to use his skills to CS which makes him much less of a threat. Alot of people also don't like assassins. Well I actually have no problem with them. I find some of them really cool, like kassadin, shaco etc. because they have tons of cool plays they can do. The kind of assassin I don't like are the safe ones. An assassin should be on the edge of utter fail and success at all times, which should be based on smart aggression. When an assassin like Zed farms at turret with his non mana based AoE wavelcear kit then I allways die a little inside. This is also the part of akali i dislike, even if she is not as safe as Zed (who has a better escape and better waveclear) she can still farm a bit too safe and I rather had shifted some power to her aggression. When someone 1on5's a team (not in a direct 1on5 encounter ofc, you know what I mean) with an assassin, then as long as the numbers aren't broken you can pretty much count on this guy playing his best and punish every little mistake ppl do in that match which is actually pretty hard if your up against equally skilled players. That is why people consider most assassins high skillcap champions from a certain level of play on ofc. So assassins are rather on my love list than on my hate list as long as they are really forced to play aggressive. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:26 NeoIllusions wrote: Trying to be yanger with his knowledge bombs? Good attempt, Cheep. Think Yanger might be mia after TFs meltdown. Poor guy. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On August 10 2013 20:02 nyxnyxnyx wrote: mind = blown =O Did you know that 50% of all League players are below average? Depends on your definition of average, If you are talking about the median then your statement is of course true. However, most people take "average" and no other context to mean the arithmetic mean, and due to League's right-skewed distribution, I would expect much more than 50% of all League players to be below average. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
On August 10 2013 21:22 thenexusp wrote: Depends on your definition of average, If you are talking about the median then your statement is of course true. However, most people take "average" and no other context to mean the arithmetic mean, and due to League's right-skewed distribution, I would expect much more than 50% of all League players to be below average. But then the statement is still mathematically true. Anyways, when talon came out, it was almost always ap mids, so Riot wanted to try something new and kind of made him the ad anti mage caster. But now ad mids arent uncommon and zed is just better than talon, despite not having the silence. Maybe they need to give talon a stronger silence or make his ult give half a second aoe silence in and out. | ||
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35159 Posts
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On August 10 2013 21:22 thenexusp wrote: Depends on your definition of average, If you are talking about the median then your statement is of course true. However, most people take "average" and no other context to mean the arithmetic mean, and due to League's right-skewed distribution, I would expect much more than 50% of all League players to be below average. Basically you just said. It depends on your definition of average, either you're right, or you're right. | ||
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Don_Julio
2220 Posts
On August 10 2013 22:17 Gahlo wrote: I actually played more league during by short ban than when I was posting here. 0.o Ask for more bans, you'll be challenger in no time. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35159 Posts
On August 10 2013 22:24 Don_Julio wrote: Ask for more bans, you'll be challenger in no time. I think it has more to do with there being no LCS this week. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
In these pro games where it doesn't appear as much, though, and without spells scaling it clearly takes so much longer to kill people, if only because it takes alot more autos. Since high crit is so hard to come by, you don't get monstruous dps (IE is 37.5% aa damage increase on average, IE+PD is 82.5%) and surviving long enough to kill people makes much more sense. I dunno how I feel about LoL's usage of crit and its ramifications on dps and speed at which it kills targets, but it's pretty interesting how, in a sense, it seems to support diversity in itemisation because there isn't a single item build that is strictly superior in terms of raw dps. A bit like how Riot said "well Locket and Bulwark are too good, so we merge them to remove the option" rather than provide good alternatives. I mean, of course we have BT/BotRK, PD/Shiv, etc. but the core of IE+crit item for dps increase is still much superior to anything else. (Now that I think about it there are deviations, like Twitch's SotD or Vayne's double PD, but they are highly situational and both make use of crit. Blue Ez can work but its biggest drawback is... the lack of damage, because it doesn't have crit.) On August 10 2013 16:28 sylverfyre wrote: I feel like since talon is melee you should be able to farm against him pre6. You CAN get a silence in the air when he blinksilences you to disrupt his combo, and once you're 6, all bets are off (dont get dunked by his ult, just go be kassadin, go double kill his bot lane a few times or something.) Cutthroat has 700 range and is an instant blink, Kassadin shouldn't be able to silence Talon before he at least gets his aa-Q off, and at early levels the silence shouldn't last long enough that Talon can't W you on the way out. I dunno, when I pick Talon and end up against melee champs I tend to try and W them for the slow then straight-up walk to them and aa-Q. E is really only a gap-closer at early level, 3% damage amp. isn't anything big and the cd is super long so I'd rather keep it for other stuff, like trying to bait the jungler past his creep wave when he comes so I can E a minion and run for it. The one little annoying thing I have with Talon is the duration of his silence, because with only 1s most champs with blinks and stuff will generally be able to blink out of ult range unless you blow it immediatly after the E-aa-Q, and those with shields will always get to use them. His ult has a short cd so "wasting" it to force a back isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it requires more damage assessment than I'm used too to determine whether it's worth using ult or not (since you almost blow it at the start). Rule of thumb is generally unless they have sustain, if you get a E-aa-Q-aa as you can-W when they run combo off, the next one including ult should kill. + Show Spoiler [Screw Zed] + But Talon has 600 range and a flat 10s cd on Rake, while Zed's shuriken is 900 range with 6s cd, and he can use E to finish off a wave instead of tanking it too. Since he rushes cutlass he also gets some sutain anyway. Zed has a much easier (and more importantly safer) time farming in general, and it's only compounded by his energy-based nature, while having stronger harass too (considering Rake's cost and cd, even if the enemy is within 600 range you usually can't really afford to use it both on the wave and then on him), although when Talon goes in he does more damage thanks to Q. However Talon's dps is lower than Zed, he's also got less outplay potential during a long trade, and his autos hurt less because no W passive. Zed can duke it out with bruisers and outsustain some tanks' damage, with a very 1v1-focused ult that can easily send them home unless they itemise against it. Talon can burst a squishy faster when he's got the damage, but if the squishy survives the big cds on W and E makes it way easier to kite him and he lacks the damage to finish them off, and... well, generally he can't fight people he can't 100-0, so bruisers tend to prevent his splitpushing too. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On August 10 2013 23:08 Alaric wrote: + Show Spoiler [Screw Zed] + But Talon has 600 range and a flat 10s cd on Rake, while Zed's shuriken is 900 range with 6s cd, and he can use E to finish off a wave instead of tanking it too. Since he rushes cutlass he also gets some sutain anyway. Zed has a much easier (and more importantly safer) time farming in general, and it's only compounded by his energy-based nature, while having stronger harass too (considering Rake's cost and cd, even if the enemy is within 600 range you usually can't really afford to use it both on the wave and then on him), although when Talon goes in he does more damage thanks to Q. However Talon's dps is lower than Zed, he's also got less outplay potential during a long trade, and his autos hurt less because no W passive. Zed can duke it out with bruisers and outsustain some tanks' damage, with a very 1v1-focused ult that can easily send them home unless they itemise against it. Talon can burst a squishy faster when he's got the damage, but if the squishy survives the big cds on W and E makes it way easier to kite him and he lacks the damage to finish them off, and... well, generally he can't fight people he can't 100-0, so bruisers tend to prevent his splitpushing too. May I just say that I'm highly amused by alternate spoiler titles, and spoiler: "Screw Zed" is hilarious for some reason. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
So I spoiler the [even more] superfluous [than usual] part and I summarise it with the title. :< | ||
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