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On June 22 2013 11:39 overt wrote:
Just wanted to say that I'm kind of bummed that locodoco is back down to sub again. Kind of surprised he's staying with the team as a sub to be honest. I figured he'd retire and try his hand at commentating or coaching at this point. Before he joined CLG he got some offer from OGN to have his own show but now I think it's probably too late since I dunno if he's still all that popular in Korea.
He's still really popular iirc from the All Stars polls.
Also he's not exactly a sub, Montecristo tweeted this
MonteCristo @ggCMonteCristo 1h
Locodoco is not getting benched, btw. Both NaJin teams will move to 7 members and sub in players as needed from game to game.
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On June 22 2013 07:40 thenexusp wrote:
Also, "refusing to communicate with team" reports do not get sent to Tribunal, like Unskilled Player or Leaving the game/afk. Riot uses these signals to tell when a region has too many people not speaking the native language, their matchmaking is screwed up, or their leaverbuster needs work, respectively.
Do you have source for this? This is the first time I've heard this and I find it very hard to believe.
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On June 22 2013 11:31 AntiAntiHero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:04 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 22 2013 11:01 AntiAntiHero wrote:
Well, I wouldn't put it like that. I just believe some junglers can't really handle the New-Nunu measures; practically no counter-play. My poor friend who wanted to jungle Evelynn basically wasn't playing the game anymore from 2 minutes in. It was a very toxic experience. Wasn't that me? lol that was annoying I mean Nunu was pretty annoying before the changes, do his extra buffs really just take it to another level of annoying? No no, Emma was playing as Eve. It was basically 20 minutes of sitting there and dying. Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:07 cLutZ wrote:
I honestly don't see how new Nunu is that different than Old Nunu when it comes to counterjungling. The only difference is that Nunu is not just a bloodboil (which was nerfed very heavily) bot coming out of the jungle.
Also, I don't understand why every patch Riot thinks they need to further emphasize the "big" monster at each camp. Or at s3 start emphasize siege minions. Its basically the equivalent of reducing the crit % on I.E., but doubling the bonus damage on crit. It's not Nunu that has changed so much (besides that buff he gets when he consumes, which isn't a big deal). It's the issue that you pointed out of front-loading all of the experience into the big monster. The way Nunu's counterjungling plays out now is that the denied jungler is denied furious amounts of gold and experience that prevents them from having any impact on the game whatsoever. The blood boil then makes Nunu practically uncatchable unless your whole team is on the ball with a manhunt that likely won't succeed if the Nunu knows what they're doing/has their summoners, which takes so much pressure off the other lanes. I don't know, it's just something you have to experience.
Oh I totally agree with you. I just want to know why Riot has decided to put everything in one place. I totally understand buffing jungle EXP (because most junglers are tanks, and tanks need levels, low jungle exp has always been one of my peeves), but why is one monster worth so much more? Its kinda like they thought "dragon steals and baron steals are really good for this game, lets make more of them!" I kinda think dragon/baron steals are tolerable at best.
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On June 22 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:31 AntiAntiHero wrote:On June 22 2013 11:04 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 22 2013 11:01 AntiAntiHero wrote:
Well, I wouldn't put it like that. I just believe some junglers can't really handle the New-Nunu measures; practically no counter-play. My poor friend who wanted to jungle Evelynn basically wasn't playing the game anymore from 2 minutes in. It was a very toxic experience. Wasn't that me? lol that was annoying I mean Nunu was pretty annoying before the changes, do his extra buffs really just take it to another level of annoying? No no, Emma was playing as Eve. It was basically 20 minutes of sitting there and dying. On June 22 2013 11:07 cLutZ wrote:
I honestly don't see how new Nunu is that different than Old Nunu when it comes to counterjungling. The only difference is that Nunu is not just a bloodboil (which was nerfed very heavily) bot coming out of the jungle.
Also, I don't understand why every patch Riot thinks they need to further emphasize the "big" monster at each camp. Or at s3 start emphasize siege minions. Its basically the equivalent of reducing the crit % on I.E., but doubling the bonus damage on crit. It's not Nunu that has changed so much (besides that buff he gets when he consumes, which isn't a big deal). It's the issue that you pointed out of front-loading all of the experience into the big monster. The way Nunu's counterjungling plays out now is that the denied jungler is denied furious amounts of gold and experience that prevents them from having any impact on the game whatsoever. The blood boil then makes Nunu practically uncatchable unless your whole team is on the ball with a manhunt that likely won't succeed if the Nunu knows what they're doing/has their summoners, which takes so much pressure off the other lanes. I don't know, it's just something you have to experience. Oh I totally agree with you. I just want to know why Riot has decided to put everything in one place. I totally understand buffing jungle EXP (because most junglers are tanks, and tanks need levels, low jungle exp has always been one of my peeves), but why is one monster worth so much more? Its kinda like they thought "dragon steals and baron steals are really good for this game, lets make more of them!" I kinda think dragon/baron steals are tolerable at best.
Buff XP was increased because laners can't help you smallcamp/buff anymore without significant farm. Instead, they can skip the small camp, help with the buff, and everything is like normal.
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On June 22 2013 08:16 Slayer91 wrote:
just pretend everyone in solo queue is your friend
dont pretend your friends dont argue when you play 5's
a 5's team will generally have a disconnect between people who are too serious, and people who are too laid back, and also generally arguments are going to happen when 2 players both refuse to back down from a point of view
in solo q you don't care because you play with 5 new guys next game so you don't worry if 2 guys are arguing
so peaceful
Happens all the with some of the guys I play with they are irl friends and fight when we start losing I am a good 500 elo higher then them so sometimes i have say your both wrong now listen to me! Lol it's entertaining to say the least
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On June 22 2013 11:53 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:49 cLutZ wrote:On June 22 2013 11:31 AntiAntiHero wrote:On June 22 2013 11:04 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 22 2013 11:01 AntiAntiHero wrote:
Well, I wouldn't put it like that. I just believe some junglers can't really handle the New-Nunu measures; practically no counter-play. My poor friend who wanted to jungle Evelynn basically wasn't playing the game anymore from 2 minutes in. It was a very toxic experience. Wasn't that me? lol that was annoying I mean Nunu was pretty annoying before the changes, do his extra buffs really just take it to another level of annoying? No no, Emma was playing as Eve. It was basically 20 minutes of sitting there and dying. On June 22 2013 11:07 cLutZ wrote:
I honestly don't see how new Nunu is that different than Old Nunu when it comes to counterjungling. The only difference is that Nunu is not just a bloodboil (which was nerfed very heavily) bot coming out of the jungle.
Also, I don't understand why every patch Riot thinks they need to further emphasize the "big" monster at each camp. Or at s3 start emphasize siege minions. Its basically the equivalent of reducing the crit % on I.E., but doubling the bonus damage on crit. It's not Nunu that has changed so much (besides that buff he gets when he consumes, which isn't a big deal). It's the issue that you pointed out of front-loading all of the experience into the big monster. The way Nunu's counterjungling plays out now is that the denied jungler is denied furious amounts of gold and experience that prevents them from having any impact on the game whatsoever. The blood boil then makes Nunu practically uncatchable unless your whole team is on the ball with a manhunt that likely won't succeed if the Nunu knows what they're doing/has their summoners, which takes so much pressure off the other lanes. I don't know, it's just something you have to experience. Oh I totally agree with you. I just want to know why Riot has decided to put everything in one place. I totally understand buffing jungle EXP (because most junglers are tanks, and tanks need levels, low jungle exp has always been one of my peeves), but why is one monster worth so much more? Its kinda like they thought "dragon steals and baron steals are really good for this game, lets make more of them!" I kinda think dragon/baron steals are tolerable at best. Buff XP was increased because laners can't help you smallcamp/buff anymore without significant farm. Instead, they can skip the small camp, help with the buff, and everything is like normal.
My question is more about why the big guy is basically the only one that matters.
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I remember a week ago someone complained that there was only two ways to play junglers: gankers and farmers and the only champion who might qualify as a control jungler would be Nunu. I think we should wait a bit. If control jungling is good then maybe Shaco will also make a comeback. That guy is slippery and I've had games where he stole all my buffs even when I warded them and pinged for my allies to come because stealth flash op.
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To make counter jungling more effective? To have derpmode laners not completely screw up a leash? idk.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On June 22 2013 11:18 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 10:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
you're too hung up on the "in house dota leagues" and putting it into lol
1. dota had a tiny playerbase compaerd to league
2. high level teams scrim anyways
a 'mid level' in house leagues is just completely impractical, and would devolve into a trollfest and then die out since there's no practical benefit "High level teams scrim anyway" isn't really a good argument as even top level players on very successful competitive teams in DotA still regularly play in inhouse leagues. The most practical benefit for an inhouse league is as a platform through which pubstars wishing to make the transition into professional play--and is a far better platform for them to showcase their ability because of how the level of teamplay lies somewhere between an outright pub and a true competitive team game. It essentially provides a more consistent training environment for players at the top of the ladder due to better communication between players playing in league matches (since voice communication is pretty frequently the expectation. It also provides a setting for players WITH teams to get somewhat better practice without their team that a pub game would. Additionally, it removes some of the randomness of matchmaking due to the closed nature of the player pool (you won't get someone who is really bad into the game just for the sake of balancing the teams). I don't see how such a thing would be pointless at all. Particularly given how, from talking to Navi, it seems that making the jump from solo queue into semipro play is somewhat awkward given how teams pretty much have to get formed through word-of-mouth and picking solo queuers that people may or may not have played with before.
When I say "no point," I don't mean it wouldn't give results, it would be great, when I say "no point" I mean there's no real demand for it.
High elo trolo-q consists of the same people, so people don't really feel the need to set up a really serious in house circuit to play with the same people. I simply think the demand isntt there - even if someone were to go and set one up and somehow attract enough attention to get it going, I have serious doubts that it would last.
In dota, that's how the game started out at the "high elo" level - with in houses. the LoL ingrained focus on matchmaking solo q is unlikely to go away. It's the game mode that people are, by default, going to play, just because it's the simplest and it's the one that's been given to you since making an account.
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Well about jungle monsters: I need 6 exp to hit lvl 2 after 6 minions instead of 7, right. Well I think it's pretty ridiculous that I need to kill 2 wraiths to achieve that. You would imagine they could bump up single wraith exp up from 4...
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On June 22 2013 12:28 Shikyo wrote:
Well about jungle monsters: I need 6 exp to hit lvl 2 after 6 minions instead of 7, right. Well I think it's pretty ridiculous that I need to kill 2 wraiths to achieve that. You would imagine they could bump up single wraith exp up from 4...
I think they worry that would make counterjungling too effective.
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On June 22 2013 11:35 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 11:31 AntiAntiHero wrote:On June 22 2013 11:04 onlywonderboy wrote:On June 22 2013 11:01 AntiAntiHero wrote:
Well, I wouldn't put it like that. I just believe some junglers can't really handle the New-Nunu measures; practically no counter-play. My poor friend who wanted to jungle Evelynn basically wasn't playing the game anymore from 2 minutes in. It was a very toxic experience. Wasn't that me? lol that was annoying I mean Nunu was pretty annoying before the changes, do his extra buffs really just take it to another level of annoying? No no, Emma was playing as Eve. It was basically 20 minutes of sitting there and dying. On June 22 2013 11:07 cLutZ wrote:
I honestly don't see how new Nunu is that different than Old Nunu when it comes to counterjungling. The only difference is that Nunu is not just a bloodboil (which was nerfed very heavily) bot coming out of the jungle.
Also, I don't understand why every patch Riot thinks they need to further emphasize the "big" monster at each camp. Or at s3 start emphasize siege minions. Its basically the equivalent of reducing the crit % on I.E., but doubling the bonus damage on crit. It's not Nunu that has changed so much (besides that buff he gets when he consumes, which isn't a big deal). It's the issue that you pointed out of front-loading all of the experience into the big monster. The way Nunu's counterjungling plays out now is that the denied jungler is denied furious amounts of gold and experience that prevents them from having any impact on the game whatsoever. The blood boil then makes Nunu practically uncatchable unless your whole team is on the ball with a manhunt that likely won't succeed if the Nunu knows what they're doing/has their summoners, which takes so much pressure off the other lanes. I don't know, it's just something you have to experience. If you were premade, that should not have happened. The proper answer is to immediately make sure you don't put damage on blue and go out and fight them. Worst comes to worst, it's a 3v3 except Nunu has no combat spells.
Only 3 of us were premade, not to mention one of us premades was down by bot, trying to prevent Nunu from taking the red instead (because he did go down there to do it, and set the ward as well). And you have to consider that if we're partially premade, the other team will likely be partially premade as well, and will do what they can to support that Nunu's rampaging hunger.
Because you see, that's what Nunu can do: he can just take your other buff instead, and if you're one of those people to attempt to counter jungle him back, he could still consume (and maybe even smite) it out from under you with no fuss, and you're out of luck. Or, he can let you have that first blue/red, if everyone works their damnedest to keep it off of him, go take his blue, and then just wander into your red and consume that right off of your back and run away still. Perhaps in a dedicated team setting, this kind of thing doesn't happen, but in solo queue, unless you're actively trying to stop a Nunu, he'll take whatever he wants, especially if the other team helps.
Edit: And usually, there's not enough wards on a team to stop this from happening. Because 1) people don't like wards and 2) people still don't seem to understand what Nunu does. Not to mention if your teammates are constantly leaving lane to stop the Nunu and don't succeed, you're setting everyone else back.
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Kind of interesting to see Korean teams have subs for their bot lane duo but not solo laners. Frost has Madlife+Hermes and Space/Muse as subs, and now it seems both Najin teams have followed suit
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United States23745 Posts
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On June 22 2013 12:00 obesechicken13 wrote:
I remember a week ago someone complained that there was only two ways to play junglers: gankers and farmers and the only champion who might qualify as a control jungler would be Nunu. I think we should wait a bit. If control jungling is good then maybe Shaco will also make a comeback. That guy is slippery and I've had games where he stole all my buffs even when I warded them and pinged for my allies to come because stealth flash op.
On June 22 2013 12:01 Gahlo wrote:
To make counter jungling more effective? To have derpmode laners not completely screw up a leash? idk.
Who are these "farmers"? From my EXP, and watching LCS/OGN the only kind of jungler that is nearly 100% ineffective is the farming jungler.
Obviously ganking/diving is strong, and counterjungling is also very effective, in that it sets back junglers trying to gank/dive/farm.
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I just played against IdrA in a ranked game lol. My mmr is so fucking low that he's silver 3 and im gold 5, ugh i fucking hate this game.
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United States47024 Posts
The proper way for a jungler to get farm is for them to transition into a farming role after the early game. Farming should not cause the jungler to neglect the pressure they're actually supposed to apply in the early game.
Particularly with lane swaps reducing the expected farm on an off-laner and the fact that the champ pool for top and jungle have always been somewhat similar/overlapping, it should not be that unnatural for a jungler to take the farm that the off-laner would otherwise have taken midgame, or for them to find a distribution of farm between the two of them that allows them both to finish key items. The only thing preventing this is the communication/social dynamic within teams--where the junglers are just *used* to not getting that farm and the off-laners are *used* to taking it.
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On June 22 2013 13:16 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 12:00 obesechicken13 wrote:
I remember a week ago someone complained that there was only two ways to play junglers: gankers and farmers and the only champion who might qualify as a control jungler would be Nunu. I think we should wait a bit. If control jungling is good then maybe Shaco will also make a comeback. That guy is slippery and I've had games where he stole all my buffs even when I warded them and pinged for my allies to come because stealth flash op. Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 12:01 Gahlo wrote:
To make counter jungling more effective? To have derpmode laners not completely screw up a leash? idk. Who are these "farmers"? From my EXP, and watching LCS/OGN the only kind of jungler that is nearly 100% ineffective is the farming jungler. Obviously ganking/diving is strong, and counterjungling is also very effective, in that it sets back junglers trying to gank/dive/farm.
Unfortunately Riot doesn't balance around what is going on at the highest levels.
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United States47024 Posts
Well, seeing as I don't even have enough rights to view it, someone higher up apparently put that thread on lockdown.
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EPT
