EPT[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…
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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:23 kainzero wrote: it's not as bad because they're buffing her bonus AS. all her level breakpoints with AS match up with around the time you'd get those items. you mostly get a slightly weaker early game and a very slightly weaker 6-item game. compared to graves/ez where they just gutted their BAS and didn't add any bonus AS back. Significantly weaker 6-item game* The more aspd items you get the worse her aspd will be in comparison now. If you get a new item during an aspd breakpoint it means that now you're worse than you otherwise would have been in that regard. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I don't play Kha'Zix. I don't play Zed. I. PLAY. TALON§§§§ Eat that, non-hipsters. :< | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:29 Shikyo wrote: Significantly weaker 6-item game* The more aspd items you get the worse her aspd will be in comparison now. If you get a new item during an aspd breakpoint it means that now you're worse than you otherwise would have been in that regard. This is correct, remember when they nerfed xin's base AS? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35158 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:28 thenexusp wrote: No comments about Cassiopeia's E getting the single-target flag? This I feel is one of the bigger changes in this patch Oh I forgot about that. Better switch main to Cassiopeia now... Tanky spellvamp with Rylai yumyum. On May 16 2013 08:34 kongoline wrote: rumble was my favourite top and champion i felt confident picking 1st and he gets gutted like that, hurts Yeah his Q went from the best nuke in the game to the best nuke in the game | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:28 thenexusp wrote: No comments about Cassiopeia's E getting the single-target flag? This I feel is one of the bigger changes in this patch Her kiting potential goes up exponentially, but she still doesn't have a blink, gg. Also, Lux utility still so strong. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:34 kongoline wrote: rumble was my favourite top and champion i felt confident picking 1st and he gets gutted like that, hurts You weren't the only one who felt that way, and I think that was the whole point of the change  I had a good feeling they weren't done with Zed quite yet, but I think nerfing both the shuriken and shadow slash was a bit harsh. One of them would've done the job imo. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
Caitlyn with some numbers Based on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed Base AS: .668 AS/lvl: 3% Base AS: .625 AS/lvl: 4% Without items, she's weaker earlier and stronger at ~level 9 depending on masteries Late game though, level 18 with PD, zerks and mastery for +74% AS old cait: 1.523 new cait: 1.538 level 18 with zerks/shiv old cait: 1.456 new cait: 1.475 level 18 with zerks/pd/botrk for +114%AS, old cait: 1.790 new cait: 1.788 Stronger late game in almost all circumstances, weaker from 1-9, 1-12 or so once the 20% from boots are factored in based on the base attackspeed. edit:: She gets .046 more AS at level 18 from AS/level so she needs more than ~107% bonus AS for old cait to exceed new cait at level 18 | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:30 Alaric wrote: I don't play Kha'Zix. I don't play Zed. I. PLAY. TALON§§§§ Eat that, non-hipsters. :< No wonder you're so angry all the time. You lose cuz you play weak champions. Huehue | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:29 Shikyo wrote: Significantly weaker 6-item game* The more aspd items you get the worse her aspd will be in comparison now. If you get a new item during an aspd breakpoint it means that now you're worse than you otherwise would have been in that regard. if cait 6 item, not including masteries, is zerks/IE/PD/LW/BOTRK/(defensive item) at level 18 you have .5% AS nerf (1.743 vs 1.738) that is not significantly weaker edit: goddamn ninja mathemagicans | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:43 wei2coolman wrote: No wonder you're so angry all the time. You lose cuz you play weak champions. Huehue IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF DIG, MY BOYS MAKING ME SO UPSET | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:28 thenexusp wrote: No comments about Cassiopeia's E getting the single-target flag? This I feel is one of the bigger changes in this patch So, this affects Twin Fang's interaction with Rylais and ... spellvamp? Muramana? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Bring back Olaf! | ||
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fasdaf
138 Posts
This won't change the fact that the difference in endgame is minimal though. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On May 16 2013 08:50 Haasts wrote: So, this affects Twin Fang's interaction with Rylais and ... spellvamp? Muramana? Rylais, vamp and furor boots are the ones that stick out to me. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
Cait is generally weaker from 1-12, straight up stronger at 18 unless you have PD/Zerks/Botrk. Shiv/Zerks/botrk doesn't give you enough AS for old cait to be stronger than new cait. As for cass, I think you'll have to build some form of CDR on her. Rylais is crucial but so is the ability to turn on anyone that jumps onto you and peel them off ASAP with the rylais. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On May 16 2013 07:00 bmn wrote: Yes, I realize that it's particularly prone to jungler pressure, and I adjust my playstyle accordingly. I'm not disputing that this strategy can be punished or that it's optimal, but there's a difference between a risky start and a moronic one. Against many common junglers Quinn can disengage fairly well, and I avoid pushing lane with Q if I start dblade, and I use her W if I feel like I'm being baited. As Nunu I usually end up under my tower, not theirs, and if I started dring, it's for an easy lane where I usually can escape the gank without dying. Camping top clearly punishes a doran's start a lot, but I'm wondering why doran's items specifically are "moronic". If you're camped 24/7, the 3 or 5 potions from a boots/3 or cloth/5 start won't last long either. People rarely punish a doran's tart in silver in Silver. It's not good practice to rely on enemy mistakes when picking starting items, but that alone also hardly makes "moronic" -- and if it's effective at this level then I don't see why it would be an example of particularly bad decision-making. Besides, I do often see diamond/challenger streamers start doran's blade on top/mid champions. Yes, I'm not them, and appealing to authority is not a valid argument, but if it is such a clear-cut choice then I don't understand why they still do it and get away with it. I wouldn't personally call it "moronic" to start Doran's Blade on Quinn top, but I would call it risky well beyond its reward (in most, but not all, cases). It's bad decision-making because you're developing habits that will hinder you, not help you, as you progress out of Silver. There are better and more reliable ways for you to play the lane without losing your ability to punish the mistakes of your opponent. For example, because you have no ward you basically can't be aggressive unless your opponent needlessly pushes. If you auto-attack your opponent even once as Quinn you'll draw minion aggro, which will cause the lane to push. An experienced opponent with Rejuv + Ward + 5 Potions will happily eat one or two auto-attacks if it means they can force you to self-zone or move past the river to CS (and thus be in incredible danger). The alternative is to start with an item that allows you to also grab a ward (although professionally the support or jungler sometimes wards early for their top lane). Having both potions and a ward is significantly stronger against camping because you have a much better idea of whether or not the jungler is nearby, and after any skirmish you can heal up from a safe distance instead of being forced to either recall (and lose vital experience) or stay nearby at low health (and risk zoning or a tower dive). In the event you aren't camped you can be much more aggressive, safe in the knowledge that you can push an opponent to their tower and (provided you have decent map awareness) escape any ganks. When you see Diamond/Challenger top laners start Doran's it's probably due to circumstances. They may be confident that they're a much better player than their opponent, it may be a one-sided lane, or the enemy jungler may not be good at early ganks. Situationally Doran's starts aren't unthinkable, but for a Silver player it's likely that it isn't a matter of circumstances and mostly that you haven't reached the point where anyone will punish you for it. | ||
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