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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
On June 10 2013 02:55 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 02:52 Dusty wrote:On June 10 2013 02:50 Sponkz wrote:On June 10 2013 02:49 Dusty wrote:On June 10 2013 02:44 Sponkz wrote:On June 10 2013 02:40 Dusty wrote:On June 10 2013 02:35 Sponkz wrote:On June 10 2013 02:25 Dusty wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think its Udyr is sooooo wrong
literally every hint points at Udyr...
Even SV "confirmed" it in his vlog he did after the Noc legendary came out. Except now that we know that it isn't a freljord, udyr is excluded. I'm telling u, it's mordekaiser. I don't think not related means not from there. Let's make a bet. If it's Udyr i'll gift u 5$ of RP, if it's Mordekaiser you'll gift me 5$ of RP. YOU IN? And if it's neither? We both save 5$ ^^ Okay, why not :p IT'S ON!
Oh damn, it's on.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:33 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +link wrote:
#1. You don’t want to expand your hero pool because you can’t afford it (BOTH RUNE PAGES + IP)
#2. You can’t play the hero
#3. You are afraid of playing the hero in a ranked game because you might lose
#4. You never play normal games so in the end… you never just get expand your hero pool and stay with the same hero
#5. There is too much of an emphasis in soloq. Reason being is: no one plays TMM and duo qs (even though a lot of people do it) still take ages.
#6. No voice communication in game results into people not being able to communicate effectively and efficiently. A lot of mistakes happen that could have potentially been averted by a tryhard mid player who spoke up rather than spamming the “retreat” ping.
this points are true for every region but it did not hinder korea to become strong. Korea had a strong and supported amateur league only one season ago. Before that Nicegametv did not have big sponsors like they do now and no OGN support. The reason is that NGTV decided to start a league (on their own) next to OGN but in NA/EU nobody stood up to this job instead they ask Riot to do this.
I'm going to address 5 and 6 specifically.
Link hit the issue on the head here. Solo queue and competitive play are not the same game. No matter how good you are, at the most fundamental level, you will never trust the other 4 pub players more than you trust yourself, but in competitive play you MUST trust the other 4 players as much as/more than yourself. No matter how high your skill is, no matter how many communication tools you put in the game, you simply cannot make a pub game communicate like a pro game. It simply does not happen. As such, there are certain things that you simply will not sacrifice in a pub game for your teammates. For example, do you see top laners regularly willing to 1v2 in pubs? Of course not. No pub top laner in his right mind would sacrifice his own development and hope his bot lane plays the 2v1 better. Even in high level games in Chinese/Korean solo queue, you're still going to see 1v1 top.
TMM and duo queue are unfortunately not the solution to this issue. Ultimately, the entry into pro play is a player-by-player affair. Aside from a few exceptions, it's very often not the case that an entire team enters the pro scene together and stays together. The disparity in ability and attitudes means that it's individual players that are going to make it or break it. Even if the team stays together for a while, they are often quickly scouted/poached by other teams.
So you have this strange paradox--where you need a system to help you evaluate a player's individual skill, but not in the context of a pure solo queue pub, because the context is too different from competitive play. Put differently, you need to see how the player plays with a team, without having him actually bound/committed to a team to scout his talent.
In DotA, the traditional answer to this was the development of inhouse leagues. Pro talent was scouted through a system that allowed for semi-competitive games that, while still pub-like, had some of the aspects of a competitive game, which allowed some distinction between pure pubstars and players with actual competitive potential. Various ladder systems that found other ways to evaluate players (e.g. the 11 System ladder in Chinese DotA 1 that requires you to diversify your hero selection to really raise your rating significantly) were also developed.
EDIT: From this perspective Chexx, you're right. Ultimately, in order to properly develop the tools needed for the pro scene to flourish, the scene needs to take it upon itself. NGTV being proactive and establishing an amateur league is exactly what needed to happen, and it's these kinds of things that move competitive play forward. While Riot has done much more than any developer before them, the attitude that Riot should be *relied on* to provide for the community in NA is one that is only going to cause them to fall further behind. Korea has been proactive about growing the scene on its own, and other regions need to do the same.
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On June 10 2013 03:00 c.Deadly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 02:35 Sponkz wrote:On June 10 2013 02:25 Dusty wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think its Udyr is sooooo wrong
literally every hint points at Udyr...
Even SV "confirmed" it in his vlog he did after the Noc legendary came out. Except now that we know that it isn't a freljord, udyr is excluded. I'm telling u, it's mordekaiser. The ultimate skin being "not freljord related" is a red herring, it was said in the Freljord AMA that was over a month ago. All clues we've previously received (skin leaks, comments from saint and hotshot, the hints morello gave a few days ago) point toward the skin being Spirit Summoner Udyr.
If it's not Udyr I'll eat my hat. Safest bet in the world.
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United States15536 Posts
On June 10 2013 03:00 c.Deadly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 02:35 Sponkz wrote:On June 10 2013 02:25 Dusty wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think its Udyr is sooooo wrong
literally every hint points at Udyr...
Even SV "confirmed" it in his vlog he did after the Noc legendary came out. Except now that we know that it isn't a freljord, udyr is excluded. I'm telling u, it's mordekaiser. The ultimate skin being "not freljord related" is a red herring, it was said in the Freljord AMA that was over a month ago. All clues we've previously received (skin leaks, comments from saint and hotshot, the hints morello gave a few days ago) point toward the skin being Spirit Summoner Udyr.
I honestly just figured even Riot forgot that Udyr's new lore put him in Freljord and just accidentally goofed.
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I've given up on playing normal champions in ranked, gonna play AP janna until I get back to at least gold 4.
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the biggest problem with the multiple role thing is that if you show any lack of conviction about your desired role in (NA) solo Q, you almost always end up with support, thats why support is a secondary role for the vast majority of players. I personally like to play all positions, but I find that unless I'm assertive at what I want to play I don't get it, and my skills have become lopsided because of it.
it actually reminds me a lot of Dungeon finder in wow. I actually enjoy tanking and healing, but I knew that checking all 3 boxes wouldn't give me 33%~ chance of each, if healer was clicked I was going to be heals, and if I unclicked that I was going to tank, period 0% chance of dps unless it was the only box checked.
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On June 10 2013 03:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 02:33 Chexx wrote:link wrote:
#1. You don’t want to expand your hero pool because you can’t afford it (BOTH RUNE PAGES + IP)
#2. You can’t play the hero
#3. You are afraid of playing the hero in a ranked game because you might lose
#4. You never play normal games so in the end… you never just get expand your hero pool and stay with the same hero
#5. There is too much of an emphasis in soloq. Reason being is: no one plays TMM and duo qs (even though a lot of people do it) still take ages.
#6. No voice communication in game results into people not being able to communicate effectively and efficiently. A lot of mistakes happen that could have potentially been averted by a tryhard mid player who spoke up rather than spamming the “retreat” ping.
this points are true for every region but it did not hinder korea to become strong. Korea had a strong and supported amateur league only one season ago. Before that Nicegametv did not have big sponsors like they do now and no OGN support. The reason is that NGTV decided to start a league (on their own) next to OGN but in NA/EU nobody stood up to this job instead they ask Riot to do this. I'm going to address 5 and 6 specifically. Link hit the issue on the head here. Solo queue and competitive play are not the same game. No matter how good you are, at the most fundamental level, you will never trust the other 4 pub players more than you trust yourself, but in competitive play you MUST trust the other 4 players as much as/more than yourself. No matter how high your skill is, no matter how many communication tools you put in the game, you simply cannot make a pub game communicate like a pro game. It simply does not happen. As such, there are certain things that you simply will not sacrifice in a pub game for your teammates. For example, do you see top laners regularly willing to 1v2 in pubs? Of course not. No pub top laner in his right mind would sacrifice his own development and hope his bot lane plays the 2v1 better. Even in high level games in Chinese/Korean solo queue, you're still going to see 1v1 top. TMM and duo queue are unfortunately not the solution to this issue. Ultimately, the entry into pro play is a player-by-player affair. Aside from a few exceptions, it's very often not the case that an entire team enters the pro scene together and stays together. The disparity in ability and attitudes means that it's individual players that are going to make it or break it. Even if the team stays together for a while, they are often quickly scouted/poached by other teams. So you have this strange paradox--where you need a system to help you evaluate a player's individual skill, but not in the context of a pure solo queue pub, because the context is too different from competitive play. Put differently, you need to see how the player plays with a team, without having him actually bound/committed to a team to scout his talent. In DotA, the traditional answer to this was the development of inhouse leagues. Pro talent was scouted through a system that allowed for semi-competitive games that, while still pub-like, had some of the aspects of a competitive game, which allowed some distinction between pure pubstars and players with actual competitive potential. Various ladder systems that found other ways to evaluate players (e.g. the 11 System ladder in Chinese DotA 1 that requires you to diversify your hero selection to really raise your rating significantly) were also developed. EDIT: From this perspective Chexx, you're right. Ultimately, in order to properly develop the tools needed for the pro scene to flourish, the scene needs to take it upon itself. NGTV being proactive and establishing an amateur league is exactly what needed to happen, and it's these kinds of things that move competitive play forward. While Riot has done much more than any developer before them, the attitude that Riot should be *relied on* to provide for the community in NA is one that is only going to cause them to fall further behind. Korea has been proactive about growing the scene on its own, and other regions need to do the same.
NA in particular suffers this the most, but most regions' proscenes are subsidized by riot to some degree (with korea probably the least). The fact is that the opportunity cost of attempting to become a progamer in korea is probably the lowest - living in a gaming house for 5 or so unemployed kids to attempt to breach the proscene is much more viable than it would be in america, say (due to the greater travel and living costs). If you find 5 good players that are willing to attempt to become pros, as an organization, or just as 5 friends, coming together is viable because you can all take the subway from all parts of the country to one city and one building.
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On June 10 2013 03:07 TheYango wrote:
For example, do you see top laners regularly willing to 1v2 in pubs? Of course not. No pub top laner in his right mind would sacrifice his own development and hope his bot lane plays the 2v1 better. Even in high level games in Chinese/Korean solo queue, you're still going to see 1v1 top.
i saw it my silver games twice
one of them was a plat 5 ad carry and he was bragging in chat about how good he was (because of the lane switch, and because our jungler didn't know how to deal with 2v1, so he got fed early).
teamfight stage hits and we just wipe them
was fun
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I think it's almost equally the fact that a lot of junglers have no idea how to respond to lane swaps. I've told them what to do and they're like no that's stupid and just let all our outer towers die for nothing.
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Been reading all these starcraft WCS threads and it's fascinating to me how if a game isn't a pair of top-50 players then you're wasting your time. All events should always only consist of the best. After all, our goal is to show top quality starcraft right? With Riot though I spend months watching LCS where I become attached to local teams (culturally if not physically local) and then cheer as they head off to represent on the international stage every now and again. I know they'll get crushed by the Asians but I still cheer for them, hell the Raiders haven't won anything in decades now.
I know LCSNA is far from the pinnacle of LoL competition but I realise it's just a buildup to the big one at the end of the year where I will see the absolute top and that enhances my enjoyment of both events. It's not as though its even an entertainment over skill sort of thing as I do see the very best. It's just I see it when all the teams come together a few times a year rather than every weekend.
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when someone in team select says "I'm a Smurf" I automatically assume they are not a smurf (or that their "main" account is a similar rank)
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I don't know I guess I'm just kinda a Barry Sanders hand the ball to the ref kinda guy (also for some people it's not even a lie, the term smurf and alt have blended quite a bit)
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3games in row vs eve jungle, have to say its the most gay shit ever i wish she was removed from this game
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Eve jungle is freelo man, abuse that shit! I have been  !
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On June 10 2013 03:26 Slusher wrote:
when someone in team select says "I'm a Smurf" I automatically assume they are not a smurf (or that their "main" account is a similar rank)
i say that all the time (on smurfs) just to hear the various responses.
but tbh play says more than anything you can say in champ select lel
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In my experience the three most terrifying phrases I can hear in solo que are
1: "I'm a smurf"
2: "Trust me"
3: "I'll carry us"
I find that almost every time someone says one of these three things they fail, in spectacular fashion.
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On June 10 2013 03:34 Diamond wrote:Eve jungle is freelo man, abuse that shit! I have been !
http://www.lolking.net/champions/evelynn#statistics
Not really. You just have small sample sizes and confounding variables (like being bad with other champs relative to Eve, or being lucky playing against people who don't know how to play against Eve) that cause you to overinflate her strength.
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On June 10 2013 03:41 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 03:34 Diamond wrote:Eve jungle is freelo man, abuse that shit! I have been ! http://www.lolking.net/champions/evelynn#statisticsNot really. You just have small sample sizes and confounding variables (like being bad with other champs relative to Eve, or being lucky playing against people who don't know how to play against Eve) that cause you to overinflate her strength.
Or, most people suck with Eve? Or a lot of those games are lane Eve?
Don't throw random stats around with no context, doesn't really work well. Also I'll never forget Olaf was nerfed into the ground at 48% winrate in solo que, solo que win stats is not really much.
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On June 10 2013 03:28 Slusher wrote:
I don't know I guess I'm just kinda a Barry Sanders hand the ball to the ref kinda guy (also for some people it's not even a lie, the term smurf and alt have blended quite a bit)
best metaphor ever
although you've dated yourself
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EPT
