EPT[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 122
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:05 beefhamburger wrote: Quick question, when using Kayle ult to save a squishy or yourself from a Zed ult, when is the best time to use it? Right after he activates it or near the end to negate the Death Mark activation? I would use it right away. He will then blow his burst cool downs when the squishy is ulted, and the ult proc will barely do anything while zed stands there with no CDs | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
If Kayle scales well into late game as a hybrid, it's because she's ranged or has a lot of potential AoE on her E. Late game everything dies fast in 5v5 teamfights and the best way to avoid the damage is to be full tank or be ranged. And AoE is strong. On May 09 2013 07:12 thenexusp wrote: Let's do the math through As above, 323 AD from base+items 15 AD from masteries 0.95*9+2.25*3 from runes 8% additional damage from masteries 5% crit damage Total pre-mitigation damage is (323+15+9*0.95+3*2.25)*2.55*1.08 = 973 The armor needed to mitgate 973 to 800 (post-penetration) is (100-100*800/973)*973/800 = 21.7 With 5 | 8% natural arpen from masteries, the pre-penetration value is (21.7+5) / 0.92 = 29.0 So now the question is can you shred 100 armor to 29.0. With BC, Urgot E, and some other friendly effects, it is definitely doable. nid+renekton will do this easily, as will several other combinations of armor shred effects. With crit damage runes he could do 800. Is it possible the manamune passive damage got added to the crit number when it popped up on screen? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 09 2013 08:56 thenexusp wrote: People on TL vastly overestimate the skill difference between pros. Do you really think the chance the average NA pro can win lane against the average KR pro is the same as the chance a bronze player will win lane against a plat? This is pretty much the truth, as far as I'm concerned. But I know I'm not going to be convincing TLers about it. You guys blow the gaps between "semi pros" and "pros" and "asian pros" way out of proportion, while at the same time act like the difference between a bronze 5 player and a silver 5 player isn't very big. I could iterate again that you could look at actual game statistics and prove that sentiment as mathematically wrong, but I don't think anybody is listening. | ||
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Badboyrune
Sweden2247 Posts
On May 09 2013 08:20 Amui wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/56lmyGr.jpg) I think I fixed it. Actually not quite. Where the first squiggly lines are should be challenger tier. Also 10cm to the right of top koren pros should be 'the chinese'. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
The graph overstates skill differences at high level. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:25 Ketara wrote: This is pretty much the truth, as far as I'm concerned. But I know I'm not going to be convincing TLers about it. You guys blow the gaps between "semi pros" and "pros" and "asian pros" way out of proportion, while at the same time act like the difference between a bronze 5 player and a silver 5 player isn't very big. I could iterate again that you could look at actual game statistics and prove that sentiment as mathematically wrong, but I don't think anybody is listening. Oddly enough; Saint just posted something about top KR teams having 500 GPM games; while NA and EU teams rarely break 400 GPM Using gold as a measure of skill; that gap is pretty fucking big. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:33 wei2coolman wrote: Oddly enough; Saint just posted something about top KR teams having 500 GPM games; while NA and EU teams rarely break 400 GPM Using gold as a measure of skill; that gap is pretty fucking big. I think that's a bit of a loaded stat. Korean teams are really good at closing out games so you don't get as many drawn out Baron dances that really hurt GPM. I mean I think KR > NA but it's a flawed metric. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you put a plat player against a bronze player, the difference is that the plat player kills the bronze player 20 times, also kills the jungler, and wins 1v2 and 1v3 fights consistently. 100 GPM is pretty fucking big when comparing professionals, but in the grand scheme of all the people who play the game, it's not even comparable to how big of a gap there is between Bronze and Plat. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:38 Ketara wrote: The thing is if you put an NA pro vs a Korean pro, the difference is the Korean pro gets an extra 100 GPM. If you put a plat player against a bronze player, the difference is that the plat player kills the bronze player 20 times, also kills the jungler, and wins 1v2 and 1v3 fights consistently. 100 GPM is pretty fucking big when comparing professionals, but in the grand scheme of all the people who play the game, it's not even comparable to how big of a gap there is between Bronze and Plat. The graph is showing skill; it becomes exponentially harder to get more gold per minute, as you get to that level. The difference in skill between 100gpm to 200gpm is significantly smaller than milking out 500 gpm, instead of 400gpm. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:39 wei2coolman wrote: The graph is showing skill; it becomes exponentially harder to get more gold per minute, as you get to that level. The difference in skill between 100gpm to 200gpm is significantly smaller than milking out 500 gpm, instead of 400gpm. gpm is not a good measure of skill, extended baron dances reduce gpm a lot while not really reflecting anything about the skill level of those involved. The only true measure of skill is winrate vs others. Two players of "equal skill" should have 50% winrates against each other. Furthermore, if A wins 70% against B and B wins 70% against C, then we say the skill differences A-B and B-C are the same. The real world doesn't work that nicely (rock-paper-scissors relationships, e.g.) but that's basically the Elo system and it's a damn good approximation. You're confusing skill with effort. It takes exponentially more effort to get an equal amount of additional at the professional level than it does at the bronze/silver. But it's still the same amount of actual skill. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 09 2013 08:19 Capriccioso wrote: I think I have posted this here in the past. If your team's players can perform at that level in ranked 5s, then I think they would improve their solo queue rating significantly with enough time should they take it seriously. I do not understand how someone can play at a high level in ranked teams and be stuck at a low solo queue rating. Furthermore, I'm not really impressed by ranked 5s partly because of the matchmaking. Our collegiate team routinely messes up swaps so we have AD leona or AD anivia or some of us connect to the game 5 mins late and we are currently D3 and should get D1 easily now that we actually practice. One of my solo queue friends who made a challenger ranked 5s team said that they didn't really play many good teams to get challenger, and that ranked 5s rating is pretty meaningless. I argue that you can more from solo queue than you think, and that you learn less from ranked 5s than you think. I'm not debating that ranked 5s are an invaluable tool. I think you might be right, lol. My ranked team is Diamond 3, and once I started playing SoloQ a little more seriously I went from Gold 4 to Plat 3. With that graph, I'd argue that most (even more than shown in any of these graphs) players are actually Bronze... EDIT: Obviously this analyzer is pretty good if he pops up in SoloQ with Toyz. NTU (like the guy from Reddit) is the best uni in Taiwan (and its actually kind of underrated internationally due to political pressure from China). Still, I remember the story some guy told about a team not accepted a Gold? player as a coach because of his rank, despite the endorsement that he really understood the game. On the other hand, now people are arguing that you can't really understand the game except at like... Diamond or higher. | ||
Waxangel
United States33671 Posts
price range 7,000 to 25,000 won Venue is Ilsan Kintex, same place as last iirc | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On May 09 2013 09:36 onlywonderboy wrote: I think that's a bit of a loaded stat. Korean teams are really good at closing out games so you don't get as many drawn out Baron dances that really hurt GPM. I mean I think KR > NA but it's a flawed metric. the ogn games i've watched, korean teams are really really aggressive so i think more gold is in play when there are more kills across the teams. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
edit: also hi loci, i see you are reading this thread. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
That buff on his W is just stupid. He can harrass with it all day and it always is up for ganks. No longer can you try denying him off minions for extended periods of time. The base cooldown even is lower. I don't care if his splitpushing is "worse"(why would you use living shadow while splitpushing?) if his already good laning became 100 times better. Back to spamming Zed only. (I won the lane, it's not QQ in that sense) I might or might not be exaggerating. Also I really didn't know that you can triple shuriken with both shadows. Damn. | ||
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