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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On May 09 2013 12:49 Ketara wrote: Explain to me how Yi's heal in a lane where the opposing laner has no hard CC is any different than somebody starting with 13 pots. Yi can stay in lane forever and heal an infinite amount for free, whereas 13 pots only heals for 1950 and cost gold? | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
In blinds you have the ability to get a decent tram comp, and in tryhards you can counterpick too. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:07 BlackPaladin wrote: Man ketara, if you spent as much time playing this game as you did complaining about stuff on this forum you'd be challenger tier by now. And i'd have loaded over 2 whole games with my wooden toaster computer. What makes you think I'm not in champ select while I'm complaining! Or in the case of the AP Yi complaints, bored in class. Typical Wednesday night. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:28 ticklishmusic wrote: I just think AP Yi is stupid on ARAM. If the enemy team gets him and you randomly have no hard CC (well, I guess the reroll gives you the *chance* to get some), you're basically screwed. In blinds you have the ability to get a decent tram comp, and in tryhards you can counterpick too. I don't even think that's why he's really good (at least at low levels). If one person on your team is low, then AP Yi just tears through your team with resets (with the help of the rest of his team of course). At low levels, people cling on for dear life to not die even when they're low health and could probably benefit from backing. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:38 wei2coolman wrote: If all you want to do is bitch about AP Yi; move it to the fucking QQ thread. For everyone else who wants to actually know how to deal with it rather than being pampered by Riot nerfs, feel free to stay. I don't think we were ever bitching about AP Yi. It's not like he's overpowered or anything. We were discussing how he's not fun to play against, and you were upset that we used the term anti-fun. All I was doing is pointing out that AP Yi's schenanigans are basically exactly the same as the schenanigans of things like AP Tryndamere, or lane Nunu, or mass pot openings, all of which were labeled by Riot as "anti-fun". Something doesn't have to be detrimental to the game or overpowered to be stupid and not fun. You argued that the term anti-fun was not a good label for AP Yi, but still haven't put forth any arguments about how it's any different from any of the above things that are anti-fun, at least according to Riot. Maybe your argument is that you think Riot is wrong? | ||
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JALbert
United States484 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:19 Slayer91 wrote: this is one of 2 things a: you're not taking into account all the factors because your brain is slacking off and being lazy in general. This is just a general health thing and more to do with being not tired/eating well/not stressed blah blah b: you don't understand the situation well enough to make a decision without having hindsight on your side i.e imagine you have some equation which you don't know how to solve. Say you're dumb as shit and can't solve quadratic equations. Once someone tells you what does solve the equation its obvious but at the time you had no idea. the general thing to do here if you CAN see the problem after the game you need to analyse it right then and once you have a full understanding of it you won't need more than a few second to make the decision. its really not a "oh my old bones can't keep up with you young whippsnappers" situation which pretty much all "theorycrafters" tend to fall back on I think you're missing that the key bridge here is experience. This is coming more from a chess background, but if a decent player sees a situation and studies it, they can improve their decision making the longer they study a position. Top level players have seen the situation or similar so many times that they can make a decision based on instinct/understanding of patterns and not conscious analysis. A better analogy is Quarterback decision making in American football. If I have a film cut-up I can analyze the defense, and sort of see patterns indicating who is open. If I have a more knowledgeable person helping, I can learn new things to look for, positioning of hips, tiny indicators that tip the hand of the defense. In ultra-slow-mo or retrospect I can start to approach 'good' decision making. Tom Brady gets the ball, looks up in three seconds with people trying to kill him and makes the right decision without consciously thinking about these factors because there isn't time. It isn't because he's a brilliant genius, it's because he's played a shit ton and uses all that experience constantly in-game. So it is with progamers. Game decisions on a micro level MUST be made on instinct. On an intermediate level, you can afford a brief consultation to come up with the best option, but you're still synthesizing a ton of data about the game situation instantly and distilling it to a handful of very quick key points. Game decisions on a macro level are afforded a lot more time to contemplate - pre-match prep and the like are huge factors here. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On May 09 2013 11:17 gtrsrs wrote: i'm really dubious to the accuracy in this not that i don't like double, i'm a huge fan but i don't think this is true There is definitely some truth to it though. If you look at Thorin's AMA, he mentions that doublelift is one of his favorites from the LoL community. See his answers here. They are pretty thorough. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1dn3p3/i_am_thorin_host_of_the_grilled_interview_series/ and his double lift answer here: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1dn3p3/i_am_thorin_host_of_the_grilled_interview_series/c9rxhvm A quote from it: With Doublelift I saw someone who was being perceived in a very simplistic and almost caricaturish manner, the cocky shit-talker who doesn't respect anyone. That didn't match up with what I was seeing with my own eyes and what my experience told me intuitively about how he was answering the questions. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You either have a character that can stop it or you don't. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:56 Ketara wrote: How do you out play AP Yi's heal in lane? You either have a character that can stop it or you don't. Again, you're pigeon holing the entire game about "lane phase". lol. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:52 wei2coolman wrote: Anti-fun is when there's absolutely nothing you can do against a certain kit; That is not the case with AP Yi; you can clearly out play AP Yi. I'm just thinking out loud here, but kha6 fits this category imo. It seems like he can never truly lose a lane, unless he goes full derp. Sure, you can kill him/zone/harass in the first few levels(mid lane anyway), but once he evolves spikes and builds tear, he insta clears a wave pretty much, which also serves as sustain. Oh, and you can't gank him, that sucks too. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:58 wei2coolman wrote: Again, you're pigeon holing the entire game about "lane phase". lol. You could outplay AP Tryndamere in the context of the entire game, but it was still anti-fun and still nerfed for being anti-fun. You could outplay champions that started mass pots after the first back or so, but it was still anti-fun and still nerfed for being anti-fun. How is it any different? You're ignoring the discussion altogether by trying to say that just because something isn't completely unbeatable, it's okay. That's not what fun and anti-fun is. You can make something that's absolutely no fun to play as or against, but is still perfectly balanced. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On May 09 2013 13:58 wei2coolman wrote: Again, you're pigeon holing the entire game about "lane phase". lol. You're not understanding his point. He's not saying AP Yi is anti-fun for the whole game (though it can be argued that a champ who relies on resets which can't be interrupted kinda fits that), he's saying that laning against AP Yi is not fun. And it isn't. There's nothing really for the other champ to do other than farm. I find it sort of like Galio, who I personally find even less fun to play vs than AP Yi. Galio, however, does have more options with what he does outside of the lane phase. Galio needs to position well for his ult, give speed boost to team, etc. AP Yi has the option of Q'ing, then Q'ing again if he gets a kill. Edit: Damn people are fast. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Also maybe you should play more than just lux (although...trist could do decent but your team might not agree with ad mid) and you might not be so bitter against AP yi :p | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Lux vs. AP Yi is a gigantic crock of shit in lane if you try to play aggressive, but you really can just ignore him and farm and then win teamfights later. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
If I worked at Riots balance team, I'd just remove Yi's AP ratios. Ad/bruiser Yi should be viable. AP Yi should die in a fire. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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