EPTThere's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.
[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 125
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
For instance veigar's W. If you Q then Veigars W lands where you were, your going to blow up before you do any damage. (Provided it would kill you) | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On May 09 2013 15:19 Ketara wrote: He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else. There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure. That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore... + Show Spoiler + You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
On May 09 2013 15:25 Sufficiency wrote: That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore... + Show Spoiler + You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status. Playerbase hates assassins they aren't playing. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
No. Katarina saw plenty play in the professional scene. She was legitly OP. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote: Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast. I bolded the part that is simply untrue. An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:07 cLutZ wrote: I bolded the part that is simply untrue. An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same. how is that untrue? an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief. | ||
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Cheap0
United States540 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote: how is that untrue? an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief. Hi my name is Zed and your argument is invalid. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
I hate assassins that build tank and can still contribute plenty to a team fight. That was fucking ridiculous. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Resets are also problematic because of how bad they snowball in both directions. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:23 ticklishmusic wrote: Hi my name is Zed and your argument is invalid. One example doesn't make an entire argument. Maybe Zed's just imbalanced. Doesn't mean assassins as a whole are problematic. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote: how is that untrue? an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief. You say "problematic" where I say "functioning as intended". I have, perhaps, a unique perspective because my brother also plays LOL, and he is an ARAM lover, and plays ranked barely at all, and always plays to have fun. Assassins at lower levels, are a type of class that just snowballs. If you are Akali, Pantheon, or Leblanc (my fave when playing with idiots) and you get a few kills, you slaughter everyone. My brother's best friend loves Akali. Let me tell you, she is useless when played by a terrible person. This is a champion that is balanced at low level play, but not designed in a sound way for low level play, in other words "toxic". In pro games, the tipping point is different, but the binary nature is the same: Either you kill/damage enough a high priority target and win the fight, or don't and lose it. Zed is so strong at this right now that he can try to kill a Jax and sometimes win the fight. And he can 1v1 a Jax sometimes too. Talon is the opposite, he can barely take down an Ashe or Orianna, and loses 1v1 fights. Also, as a general statement, Katarina is not an assassin in her current form. She is a teamfight-snowbally-sustained-DPS-mage. An assassin can clear a target off the map solo. Kat, unless you suck, does not do that, instead she does decent dps, then has sick cleanup power. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
1 red crit rune always. never not always. Yey or Ney? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
A champion can be fun to play as and not fun to lose lane against. Is that the definition of "Anti fun"? Because I certainly have fun playing AP yi and have friends who do the same. More accurate: Yi is annoying to play against. Yi has shit for teamfights if he can't get resets. M5 used him to good effect in that tournament against bad teams. When they started losing all their games with AP Yi, they quickly dropped the champ and played some real ap mid (Orianna I think?). Not all teamfights look like that, at least not in solo queue. And I think this was around the time when supports rushed shurelias instead of bulwark. @capped, I think Yi is untargetable during his alpha strike. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
On May 09 2013 17:19 Capped wrote: Ok new topic. 1 red crit rune always. never not always. Yey or Ney? Ban Hammer ! Ban Hammer ! | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On May 09 2013 17:20 obesechicken13 wrote: @capped, I think Yi is untargetable during his alpha strike. Played a couple of ARAM's as Yi and i Q'd at least 4 times only to die during the animation before the damage registered because something hit the spot i was in previously And why am i getting a ban hammer? XD Not on the unspeakables list. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 09 2013 17:19 Capped wrote: Ok new topic. 1 red crit rune always. never not always. Yey or Ney? i think a good number of AD pro players put 1 red crit rune. Reasoning is that 1 AD won't make or break a lane while 1 lucky crit can easily help you win a trade. | ||
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