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[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 125

Forum Index > LoL General
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Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
May 09 2013 06:19 GMT
#2481
He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else.

There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
May 09 2013 06:22 GMT
#2482
Yi has one flaw in his Q. He still gets hurt by ground targetted spells on the location he was standing in when he activated it.

For instance veigar's W. If you Q then Veigars W lands where you were, your going to blow up before you do any damage. (Provided it would kill you)
Useless wet fish.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
May 09 2013 06:24 GMT
#2483
Remember that's M5 vs CURSENA
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
May 09 2013 06:25 GMT
#2484
On May 09 2013 15:19 Ketara wrote:
He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else.

There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.


That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore...

+ Show Spoiler +
You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
May 09 2013 06:32 GMT
#2485
On May 09 2013 15:25 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 15:19 Ketara wrote:
He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else.

There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.


That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore...

+ Show Spoiler +
You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status.

Playerbase hates assassins they aren't playing.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
May 09 2013 06:36 GMT
#2486
On May 09 2013 15:32 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 15:25 Sufficiency wrote:
On May 09 2013 15:19 Ketara wrote:
He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else.

There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.


That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore...

+ Show Spoiler +
You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status.

Playerbase hates assassins they aren't playing.


No. Katarina saw plenty play in the professional scene. She was legitly OP.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 09 2013 06:43 GMT
#2487
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 09 2013 07:07 GMT
#2488
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.


I bolded the part that is simply untrue.

An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same.
Freeeeeeedom
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 09 2013 07:18 GMT
#2489
On May 09 2013 16:07 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.


I bolded the part that is simply untrue.

An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same.

how is that untrue?

an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief.
Cheap0
Profile Joined July 2012
United States540 Posts
May 09 2013 07:19 GMT
#2490
The one thing Katarina and Yi (and Kha'zix) have in common are resets. Honestly, I think Riot should probably try to keep resets out of champions kits, or at least limit them carefully in some way. Resets by their very nature create binary champions. You get the resets and slaughter the enemy team. You don't get the resets and you don't do much.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
May 09 2013 07:23 GMT
#2491
On May 09 2013 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 16:07 cLutZ wrote:
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.


I bolded the part that is simply untrue.

An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same.

how is that untrue?

an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief.


Hi my name is Zed and your argument is invalid.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
May 09 2013 07:28 GMT
#2492
On May 09 2013 15:32 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 15:25 Sufficiency wrote:
On May 09 2013 15:19 Ketara wrote:
He's just so binary. Either you can interrupt his heal or you can't. Either he does get a bunch of resets and quadra your team or he gets one alpha strike and then doesn't do anything else.

There's all kinds of reasons why he's just a stupid champion. I think there's an acceptable AP Yi in there somewhere that with a mild rework could be okay, but Alpha Strike and Meditate need some work to be sure.


That's what happened with Katarina - she was binary, so Riot "remade" her so she wasn't binary anymore...

+ Show Spoiler +
You know what happened next - nerfed every patch until she was back to the "binary" status.

Playerbase hates assassins they aren't playing.


I hate assassins that build tank and can still contribute plenty to a team fight. That was fucking ridiculous.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
May 09 2013 07:30 GMT
#2493
Champions that have kits revolving around 100-0 or resets are always going to be nightmares to balance. 100-0, there's a fine line where they can't quite 100-0 people, but do enough damage to still be useful. Go a bit towards killing, and suddenly they snowball like crazy, go the other way and they are completely useless.

Resets are also problematic because of how bad they snowball in both directions.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 09 2013 07:38 GMT
#2494
On May 09 2013 16:23 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
On May 09 2013 16:07 cLutZ wrote:
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.


I bolded the part that is simply untrue.

An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same.

how is that untrue?

an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief.


Hi my name is Zed and your argument is invalid.

One example doesn't make an entire argument. Maybe Zed's just imbalanced. Doesn't mean assassins as a whole are problematic.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 09 2013 07:42 GMT
#2495
On May 09 2013 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2013 16:07 cLutZ wrote:
On May 09 2013 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
Assassins are just inherently hard to balance if you want to cater to casuals, which Riot wants to do. Either the assassin does what they're supposed to do an blow shit up very fast, or the assassin doesn't do their job description and instead gets blown up very fast.


I bolded the part that is simply untrue.

An assassin is binary for both good and bad players. Sometimes different assassins are good/bad for different playerbases, but the problem is the same.

how is that untrue?

an assassin/gank-oriented kit has always been more problematic with more vocal dislike at low levels of play. as you go higher in skill, the role of an assassin doesn't change, but the problems they cause and amount of qq they cause tends to decrease. Take Akali for example. She's terror at low elos and elicits a ton of qq. But at higher levels of play people know how to counterplay/deal with her and she gets considerably less grief.


You say "problematic" where I say "functioning as intended". I have, perhaps, a unique perspective because my brother also plays LOL, and he is an ARAM lover, and plays ranked barely at all, and always plays to have fun.

Assassins at lower levels, are a type of class that just snowballs. If you are Akali, Pantheon, or Leblanc (my fave when playing with idiots) and you get a few kills, you slaughter everyone. My brother's best friend loves Akali. Let me tell you, she is useless when played by a terrible person. This is a champion that is balanced at low level play, but not designed in a sound way for low level play, in other words "toxic".

In pro games, the tipping point is different, but the binary nature is the same: Either you kill/damage enough a high priority target and win the fight, or don't and lose it.

Zed is so strong at this right now that he can try to kill a Jax and sometimes win the fight. And he can 1v1 a Jax sometimes too. Talon is the opposite, he can barely take down an Ashe or Orianna, and loses 1v1 fights.

Also, as a general statement, Katarina is not an assassin in her current form. She is a teamfight-snowbally-sustained-DPS-mage. An assassin can clear a target off the map solo. Kat, unless you suck, does not do that, instead she does decent dps, then has sick cleanup power.
Freeeeeeedom
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
May 09 2013 08:19 GMT
#2496
Ok new topic.

1 red crit rune always. never not always.

Yey or Ney?
Useless wet fish.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
May 09 2013 08:20 GMT
#2497
Anitfun is a business term coined by Riot execs. It has no real meaning.

A champion can be fun to play as and not fun to lose lane against. Is that the definition of "Anti fun"? Because I certainly have fun playing AP yi and have friends who do the same. More accurate: Yi is annoying to play against.

Yi has shit for teamfights if he can't get resets. M5 used him to good effect in that tournament against bad teams. When they started losing all their games with AP Yi, they quickly dropped the champ and played some real ap mid (Orianna I think?). Not all teamfights look like that, at least not in solo queue. And I think this was around the time when supports rushed shurelias instead of bulwark.

@capped, I think Yi is untargetable during his alpha strike.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
May 09 2013 08:33 GMT
#2498
On May 09 2013 17:19 Capped wrote:
Ok new topic.

1 red crit rune always. never not always.

Yey or Ney?

Ban Hammer ! Ban Hammer !
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-09 08:43:51
May 09 2013 08:43 GMT
#2499
On May 09 2013 17:20 obesechicken13 wrote:

@capped, I think Yi is untargetable during his alpha strike.


Played a couple of ARAM's as Yi and i Q'd at least 4 times only to die during the animation before the damage registered because something hit the spot i was in previously


And why am i getting a ban hammer? XD Not on the unspeakables list.
Useless wet fish.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 09 2013 09:37 GMT
#2500
On May 09 2013 17:19 Capped wrote:
Ok new topic.

1 red crit rune always. never not always.

Yey or Ney?

i think a good number of AD pro players put 1 red crit rune. Reasoning is that 1 AD won't make or break a lane while 1 lucky crit can easily help you win a trade.
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