EPTOn March 28 2013 12:17 MooMooMugi wrote:
Not sure if Kissblade is trolling
Not sure if Kissblade is trolling
Why would that be trolling? Buffing turrets protects bad players from dying to people better than them and they promote passiveness.
[Patch 3.05.1: Karma Remake] General Discussion - Page 3
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
Why would that be trolling? Buffing turrets protects bad players from dying to people better than them and they promote passiveness. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I used to get dived a lot when I first started the game. Often it'd turn out well for me. Then after like level 30 (or something) and until now I never get dived anymore unless the person diving me has a good reason and is almost certain they can kill me. The change means that if a wave gets pushed into tower and it has a cannon minion, the cannon minion will tank less shots. And it might change how risky dives are at higher levels, but I could care less. Game is going to get more passive though :/ As a single patch, I don't think much changed, and that's fine for me. I have to take a look at Karma's numbers. Losing the AoE heal seems like a big deal, but if I'm reading this right, her ult now enhances the damage on her Q, W, and E, and can give her Q up to 3 sources of magic damage on a single target. Also she has CC. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:23 OutlaW- wrote: Why would that be trolling? Buffing turrets protects bad players from dying to people better than them and they promote passiveness. Not particularly. This change is minor enough that it won't change most of the situations where you can dive successfully. If you're actually good this can work out in your favor, since people will be lulled into being a little more complacent thinking turrets are stronger than they actually are. It probably hurts the level 2-3 dive the most. I reckon it might kill you in one less hit since the margin is so tight early on, but I'd say that's a good thing. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:20 LOLItsRyann wrote: I think the turret nerfs are more to even out some options in the game. Currently there is like ALWAYS towerdives going on everywhere all the time because It's so easy. Even as early as level 2/3. Tower diving will still be possible of course with this adjustment, it just won't be mandatory or as common. I like the change. What else are you going to do though? Farm in lane? I feel like inherently there just aren't that many other options. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
There's no alternative play for the off-laner though other than to go to lane and hope to be able to sneak some XP. Possibly because Riot has never really designed the game with the alternative of an off-laner just not going to lane and, say, ganking another lane instead as an option. If the off-laner is not actually going to hit level 2 before the dive though, and then get dived, what is the point of going to lane at all? He should be able to gank mid or your 2v1, and possibly accomplish something there. But at this point, level 1 vision is pervasive enough that such a level 1 gank mid is very unlikely to bear fruit. Related to this is also that the amount of gold/XP in the jungle isn't enough to support both the off-laner and the jungler if the off-laner can't go to lane and needs somewhere else to farm. I think the tower changes make the 3v1 dive harder, but it doesn't actually address the core problem that there is no alternative for the off-laner to do anything but walk into a hopeless situation. Given how pervasive vision is and the fact that there's not enough gold/XP in the jungle to support more than one person leveling, there's no recourse for an off-laner other than to go to that hopeless lane and not die. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:33 TheYango wrote: The fundamental issue with the 3v1 dive is that Riot has created a scenario where there isn't much alternative for the off-laner. In the best case scenario, he survives the dive, but misses out on 3+ waves of creeps, and still might lose the tower. There's no alternative play for the off-laner though other than to go to lane and hope to be able to sneak some XP. Possibly because Riot has never really designed the game with the alternative of an off-laner just not going to lane and, say, ganking another lane instead as an option. If the off-laner is not actually going to hit level 2 before the dive though, and then get dived, what is the point of going to lane at all? He should be able to gank mid or your 2v1, and possibly accomplish something there. But at this point, level 1 vision is pervasive enough that such a level 1 gank mid is very unlikely to bear fruit. Related to this is also that the amount of gold/XP in the jungle isn't enough to support both the off-laner and the jungler if the off-laner can't go to lane and needs somewhere else to farm. I think the tower changes make the 3v1 dive harder, but it doesn't actually address the core problem that there is no alternative for the off-laner to do anything but walk into a hopeless situation. Given how pervasive vision is and the fact that there's not enough gold/XP in the jungle to support more than one person leveling, there's no recourse for an off-laner other than to go to that hopeless lane and not die. The jungler can just come and create a favorable 2 + turret vs 3 situation. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation. I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. There are many things wrong with this game. You should be able to outplay people somehow but it's not really possible. Things like trees to juke around (especially that hiding spot behind the turrets) and TP scrolls would be helpful. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:41 OutlaW- wrote: I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. There are many things wrong with this game. You should be able to outplay people somehow but it's not really possible. Things like trees to juke around (especially that hiding spot behind the turrets) and TP scrolls would be helpful. Dis isn't dotar. And I thought DotA turrets did less damage. And that 2v1 and tri lanes were designed to shut people down harder. If your enemy team is coordinated enough to go all 3 to a tower, and your jungler is not coordinated enough to help then they deserve the tower. You shouldn't be able to outplay everyone in a 1v3. If you really need the low level options then one thing that Age of Empires 3 did was it let you pick your deck (think summoners and masteries) any time in the game but then you'd be locked into your deck. You weren't able to use any cards too early anyways because you needed experience. If players found themselves in a 1v2 they could similarly swap masteries to be more tanky and have barrier and flash to be more defensive. The artificial method of buffing towers is just dumb. Wasn't fortify removed because it made tower dives impossible? On March 28 2013 12:57 docvoc wrote: New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol. NR BT20 PROS ONLY. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
A little light hearted aside amidst the discussion of how blah off-lane play has become at pro-level. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Champion Select AFK Detection When any player in a match-made game fails to select a champion before their timer expires, the game is terminated. A player who fails to select a champion is given a queue dodge penalty. The dodge penalty functions exactly the same as if the player closed their PVP.net client. Solo players who succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams whose members all succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams with one or more members who fail to select a champion are returned to the arranged team lobby. Draft mode is handled on a pick-by-pick basis. If a player fails to pick a champion during their turn, the game is terminated immediately. Players later in the draft order, who did not have an opportunity to pick a champion, are given the benefit of the doubt and not assigned a dodge penalty. This feature currently only applies to match made games. Custom games still assign a random champion if one is not selected. I approve. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
I think this is at least something we can all agree on. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 28 2013 13:00 obesechicken13 wrote: Wasn't fortify removed because it made tower dives impossible? I thought it was removed because practically no one used it ever. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
On March 28 2013 12:57 docvoc wrote: New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol. Early? We're nearly four full months into it. Season 2 ended 5 months ago. | ||
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