EPT[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 173
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On March 18 2013 22:03 Serelitz wrote: I honestly hope they take a look at Quinn/Corki/Sivir. They're pretty much the only ADCs atm that aren't viable. Cait could do with a slight nerf as well I think. Corki sees Niche play all the time. He's been picked 5 times so far in LCS(NA and EU combined). Honestly I think Quinn needs to just be played top as a lane bully or something. Her kit is mediocre at best for an ADC since 2 ability put her into the enemy team but that's just my view on it. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On March 18 2013 22:21 Shotcoder wrote: Corki sees Niche play all the time. He's been picked 5 times so far in LCS(NA and EU combined). Honestly I think Quinn needs to just be played top as a lane bully or something. Her kit is mediocre at best for an ADC since 2 ability put her into the enemy team but that's just my view on it. I've tried playing her top lane quite a bit (much moreso than ADC even). It's honestly not working out very well. Her ability to be a lane bully relies on her passive which you can play around early levels, and her escape is very easy to outplay as well. Most of all the problem is that she has no innate bruiser scaling or ways to escape bruisers. She feels kind of like AD Nidalee without sustain and less HP, but the real problem is how much of the current meta counters her. Akali, Darius, Irelia, Renekton, Singed, Volibear can all outplay her escape and kill her insanely fast. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 18 2013 22:21 Shotcoder wrote: Corki sees Niche play all the time. He's been picked 5 times so far in LCS(NA and EU combined). Honestly I think Quinn needs to just be played top as a lane bully or something. Her kit is mediocre at best for an ADC since 2 ability put her into the enemy team but that's just my view on it. Read what I posted last page? I don't think she's very good 1v1. Any bruiser with gapclosers or CC just steps on her. She's annoying, but ends up being less effective bully than Teemo (Also a ranged "annoy them out of lane" champ) Standard top laners that probably just crush lane against Quinn: Singed, Renekton, Irelia, Akali, Darius, Elise, Shen... who are you splitpushing/lane bullying, again? | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:43 Lylat wrote: Yes he was a really good SC2 player.. I'm pretty sure he played BW too but I can't remember if it was under Darkforce.. This guy was only like C- or so, but I guess it's not that unlikely that he improved a lot for SC2? He also didn't play THAT much iirc. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On March 18 2013 22:47 sylverfyre wrote: Read what I posted last page? I don't think she's very good 1v1. Any bruiser with gapclosers or CC just steps on her. She's annoying, but ends up being less effective bully than Teemo (Also a ranged "annoy them out of lane" champ) Standard top laners that probably just crush lane against Quinn: Singed, Renekton, Irelia, Akali, Darius, Elise, Shen... who are you splitpushing/lane bullying, again? I was just stating she's an awful adc, maybe top was a bad place to put her. Maybe mid? I have no idea since she is so weak right now. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
A jump that leaves you positionally exploitable is another problem of it's own, and pretty much any support (except Soraka) and many solo laners can punish her hard for using it EVER. Some people have suggested making her untargettable during Vault, but that wouldn't even fix some of the positional/skillshot exploits that arise when you know exactly where your opponent will be 0.5 seconds in the future, especially when that location is within nearly anybody's autoattack/gapcloser/spellcast range. The fact that there's a slow on Vault accomplishes nothing. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:25 ihasaKAROT wrote: Noone sparkles and shines as much as Taric himself tho. Taric jokes are the best. They are always so truly outrageous. On March 18 2013 21:27 EquilasH wrote: Wait, there's a SC2 player called DarkForce? Is he german? I used to play Brood War with a guy called Darkforce. He is german. I found this on liquipedia: "In an interview,[2] he stated before starting with StarCraft II he was playing Poker and various other games like Aion, WoW, Supreme Commander, AoE, DotA and WarCraft." The original interview is in German so I can't check if he also mentioned Brood War. For some reason though I always thought he played brood war. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On March 18 2013 22:10 Serelitz wrote: The trade-off for caitlyn is still amazing. Her range allows her to be a decent bully in lane while she still scales amazingly into the lategame. edit: I'm also really tired of the people claiming 'oh quinn isnt like a normal ADC just wait she'll become OP when she's picked by koreans/toplane/whatever' or other nonsense like that. She's simply bad and all these people saying she's fine will just delay any buffs that she desperately needs. It's too bad though, just about every new champ release that I do pick-up turns out to be underwhelming. I picked up Syndra, Nami and Quinn on release day and none of them have impressed. Bjergsen and L1nk would like a word with you. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On March 18 2013 23:43 JonGalt wrote: Bjergsen and L1nk would like a word with you. On release day. Both Nami and Syndra re decent now but not amazing, and both of them have gotten quite a few buffs. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 18 2013 19:46 iCanada wrote: Or just reduce the percentages by half or something. I dunno, right now it balanced so that he on par with every other champion if he picks up all the blobs. If he doesn't, he literally just like a free kill. If you dont pick up blobs you find yourself losing duels to bots. <_< The thing is, if an enemy champion walks over your blobs they die. Your passive as Zac is much more of a limiter that allows others to outplay you than an enabler that allows you to outplay others. I just jungled him in a game, and I healed myself for 25k damage over the course of the game... I dunno, his healing/health costs are just way too much. They need to be normalized a ton. Thing is, if you healing 25K, chances are you hurting yourself for that much too, if not more because like I said you can't pick up your blobs in champion vs champion interactions and still trade properly because you lose out on autos. Even playing mundo if you get like 5 Warmogs never seen my healing above like 15k. It'd be palpable if they only traveled like 200 instead of like the 1000 they do currently, but as it is now its just ridiculous. Blobs fly over the walls a lot in the jungle even, which is silly. I do think if he released as is though he will be shit tier. Yeah I was fucking around on the PBE against bots and was super fed and thought "oh man, I can 1 v 2 these bots np ezpz". Nope, I nearly died and didn't get the kill. It really is amazing how much damage you do to yourself. I've seen this general sentiment on Reddit (and probably the Riot GD) so I'm sure Riot is aware of this | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:24 Ryuu314 wrote: Why Q over E? Leveling E gives better peel and it's not like you really need the damage as Thresh support. Most of E's power is in the displacement. Ranking it up only increases the slow's effectiveness by 5%, and its cooldown is fixed. Meanwhile, maxing Q drops its cooldown significantly. I like being able to get more hooks off more than having a slightly better slow on E. On March 18 2013 22:10 sylverfyre wrote: So... my experience in 1v1ing quinn as Irelia top lane. I was miserable from 1-6. At level 7, I was behind 2 kills and a level and I could CS fine, mostly ignoring her. At level 9, I just completely stomped her out of lane, stunning her the moment she did her E to bounce off of me. If you can't 1v1 strong people mid / late game, you aren't going to be much of a splitpusher. Like, this wasn't even close, and I t hought I was getting outplayed in the lower levels (or at least, harassed competently.) I forget her build, but it wasn't nonsense. I just don't see how you can splitpush when you get rolled over in the midgame by melees with either good gapclosers and/or CC. Singed roflstomps her because of how her E leaves her massively vulnerable. NAMI steps on her in bot lane along with other CC/skillshot supports (she uses Vault -> sits in a bubble) and that isn't even a problem solvable by making her untargettable during Vault - it's the same vulnerability Draven has with catching axes. (For note, I was beating her soundly when my items consisted of a bilgewater, a Doran's Shield, and Ninja tabi. Maybe a dagger, but nowhere near finishing BORK) It's hard for me to comment without having seen the game in question. It sounds like Quinn was using her E weird (were you jumping her and then waiting for her E before stunning?). Similarly, I imagine it would be hard for you to comment on the game where I demolished a mid-late game Shen. In general it's really hard to judge a champion's strength from two disparate anecdotes. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
i'd still play her though. very solid splitpusher. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Also, from the little bit I've played quinn and larger amount I've witnessed quinn, it seems like her kit opens up SO much counterplay for her OPPONENTS to abuse against her. | ||
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
esp if u seen her | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:25 sylverfyre wrote: Yeah, I'd double Q (one onto creep in range of her, one onto her) and then wait for her to E before using my stun. The reason I felt I'd mention this is because I was significantly behind when I just facerolled over her and that seems pretty bad for a top laner who is supposed to be a bully, successfully bullies, but loses lane anyway? I get that I was playing Irelia, who expects to lane like that - weather the storm until you hit your powerful levels before you turn the tide, but for me to be able to turn it around so decisively against Quinn seems like I am exploiting a weakness in the champ and not jsut exploiting a bad player. Also, from the little bit I've played quinn and larger amount I've witnessed quinn, it seems like her kit opens up SO much counterplay for her OPPONENTS to abuse against her. Sadly I feel the same. The only way I've been able to dominate with her is completely rolling lane against "bad players" and then getting 7-8 kills between their jungler and top. If I don't snowball, I feel like I do no damage, and if I use ult I throw away my range. I've been able to get the hang of E'ing over walls and whatnot, but if I use E vs a player that saves his cc for it (Renek, Irel, Riven) I get destroyed. I do well early, but I feel completely useless midgame with her ult lol. Pretty much need botrk+defensive item+ IE or LW to do jack. Maybe it's a playstyle issue, but I just feel that her Q hitbox should be looked at, increase her E animation speed or make her invulnerable in it, and make her passive a bit more reliable (it's supposed to prioritize champions but I've noticed it will occasionally target a minion instead). I enjoy playing her, her kit just seems so like, counterintuitive? Ranged bully who's ult gimps her into melee range with her ult lol. Has anyone had jungling success with her? I feel like her ult would be great for ganks/counter ganks.. | ||
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Wrag
France124 Posts
Woosh.. On topic: I'm having a hard time with this ZAC dude, can't help thinking there's an april fool somewhere in there .The animations although kinda cool feel a bit.. off? | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:25 sylverfyre wrote: Yeah, I'd double Q (one onto creep in range of her, one onto her) and then wait for her to E before using my stun. The reason I felt I'd mention this is because I was significantly behind when I just facerolled over her and that seems pretty bad for a top laner who is supposed to be a bully, successfully bullies, but loses lane anyway? I get that I was playing Irelia, who expects to lane like that - weather the storm until you hit your powerful levels before you turn the tide, but for me to be able to turn it around so decisively against Quinn seems like I am exploiting a weakness in the champ and not jsut exploiting a bad player. Also, from the little bit I've played quinn and larger amount I've witnessed quinn, it seems like her kit opens up SO much counterplay for her OPPONENTS to abuse against her. Dunno why you'd blow second Q right away, there are usually ways to get onto her without blowing it, and without a second Q, if quinn jumps you can't get on her unless you can stun. You can ult a ranged creep twice(preferably hitting Quinn), Q to that creep, and then just auto/stun until she jumps, and then Q again. Quinn does feel like a weaker version of teemo though. Having to get into melee range to disengage basically means melee range CC spells(singe toss for example) really, really fucks her up because she doesn't have an out, and she doesn't bully as hard as teemo does either to make up for it. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:25 sylverfyre wrote: Yeah, I'd double Q (one onto creep in range of her, one onto her) and then wait for her to E before using my stun. The reason I felt I'd mention this is because I was significantly behind when I just facerolled over her and that seems pretty bad for a top laner who is supposed to be a bully, successfully bullies, but loses lane anyway? I get that I was playing Irelia, who expects to lane like that - weather the storm until you hit your powerful levels before you turn the tide, but for me to be able to turn it around so decisively against Quinn seems like I am exploiting a weakness in the champ and not jsut exploiting a bad player. Also, from the little bit I've played quinn and larger amount I've witnessed quinn, it seems like her kit opens up SO much counterplay for her OPPONENTS to abuse against her. We should run some tests sometime. I feel like Quinn is misplaying if she's using her E while you're low enough on health to stun her. If she simply remains calm, blinds you, and starts kiting then you'll be forced to use it to either catch her or escape, at which point she can then use E safely to escape herself or keep fighting. But that's conjecture, and it would be better to put it to practical test. Do you know if she was rushing BotRK? I've seen that done on pretty much every Quinn who wasn't me, and I think it's a big mistake. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:10 Seuss wrote: We should run some tests sometime. I feel like Quinn is misplaying if she's using her E while you're low enough on health to stun her. If she simply remains calm, blinds you, and starts kiting then you'll be forced to use it to either catch her or escape, at which point she can then use E safely to escape herself or keep fighting. But that's conjecture, and it would be better to put it to practical test. Do you know if she was rushing BotRK? I've seen that done on pretty much every Quinn who wasn't me, and I think it's a big mistake. Alrighty then, as someone who would love to make top Quinn work, what did you run on her? Even the games that I've won hard I've gone with BotRK. | ||
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