|
On March 18 2013 16:22 spellsy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 16:12 wei2coolman wrote:On March 18 2013 16:10 spellsy wrote:this is the full album of the 3 mini guides, what do you guys think ? http://imgur.com/a/Hc9eR These are nice; but I do feel that supports have a lot more variable build path in comparison to other roles; so though these "quick guides" are pretty nice for, lets say first time players, but it's still pretty far from certain situational builds/play efficiencies. yea i very much agree. I mean there isnt even a real recommended build path (other than starting items). most of the point of this was supposed to be somewhat of a launching point for people. it brings up ideas and some practical info. like oh thresh is good with tanky itemization when he is going for a more in your face teamfight style. or nami is better with more cdr heavy CC heavy style because of her back positioning and heavy teamfight CC. etc. similarly with the picks at the bottom, its not like oh these are the only 2 champs that are good, instead they are chosen to be a budding point for people to draw their own conclusions. oh, mf and vayne are good with nami ? i think something like varus or kog would also seem good as they both are similarly auto attack focused and can trade kinda well!
I think these things are lovely. I constantly link your S3 support PDF and poster to people on Reddit when they ask for support help.
|
On March 18 2013 15:55 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:49 Amui wrote:On March 18 2013 15:46 iCanada wrote:
Zac's late game feels pretty bad.
I dunno, he clears the jungle well, he ganks well, but his champion vs champion interaction is so bad.
Straight up he just cannot duel anyone because of how his kit is made. His dueling seems scaled so that your damage is good if you can manage your passive well, but like its impossible to duel or even team fight and collect your split offs. you have to stop everything you are doing and just get hit for free while you run and grab your blobs in order for your skills costs to be effective, but if you doing that you just getting hit for free that whole time.
His HP costs also seem stupidly high. You use your skills in a teamfight and you legitimately just chunk yourself for 50% HP... So dumb, you press R then like you stand their and hope enemy team dumb enough to hit you because otherwise you just useless. If you use your skills you just die so fast it is disgusting. Even if you dont build HP you end up dealing like 1k+ damage to yourself which is stupid.
It shouldn't be stronger in a fight to not use your skills. I could see it if he was stupidly disruptive, or he did stupid amounts of damage, but its not even like that. I dunno, how it is now it doesn't matter how tanky you are because you just do % true damage to yourself that is really really high. Want to use your cool E to initiate? Cool that's like 500 HP. I actually think it would be cool if it dealt % health mixed damage, with like 40% being true, 60% split magic/physical. Might be too unintuitive for riot to ever implement, but it'd give him a reason to build health to somewhat mitigate the true, with resists to lower the other portions. Also makes it so that as he gets items/levels, he'll deal less damage to himself, and slowly increase the value of his passive. Well, i dunno if you just build HP since it a percent damage it still does a ridiculous amount of damage. And obviously they want you to build HP because his Passive based of of a % of your total HP. Either his passive needs to heal WAY more, or his abilities need to cost way less. I dunno, I shouldn't need to have Spirit Visage, A revolver, and get each one of my passive blobs (because it literally impossible champion vs champion) in order to not lose every trade. That just feels bad. Another option I think would be cool is to just give Zac a current HP ratio to all his spells damage. SO like, if you spell going to cost you 600 damage, it should do way more. /shrug
no. when you get a %hp tank steroid then both mitigation and hp should be balanced to get the most EHP. because what %hp steroids really do is increase the EHP by that amount.
|
On March 18 2013 18:36 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 15:55 iCanada wrote:On March 18 2013 15:49 Amui wrote:On March 18 2013 15:46 iCanada wrote:
Zac's late game feels pretty bad.
I dunno, he clears the jungle well, he ganks well, but his champion vs champion interaction is so bad.
Straight up he just cannot duel anyone because of how his kit is made. His dueling seems scaled so that your damage is good if you can manage your passive well, but like its impossible to duel or even team fight and collect your split offs. you have to stop everything you are doing and just get hit for free while you run and grab your blobs in order for your skills costs to be effective, but if you doing that you just getting hit for free that whole time.
His HP costs also seem stupidly high. You use your skills in a teamfight and you legitimately just chunk yourself for 50% HP... So dumb, you press R then like you stand their and hope enemy team dumb enough to hit you because otherwise you just useless. If you use your skills you just die so fast it is disgusting. Even if you dont build HP you end up dealing like 1k+ damage to yourself which is stupid.
It shouldn't be stronger in a fight to not use your skills. I could see it if he was stupidly disruptive, or he did stupid amounts of damage, but its not even like that. I dunno, how it is now it doesn't matter how tanky you are because you just do % true damage to yourself that is really really high. Want to use your cool E to initiate? Cool that's like 500 HP. I actually think it would be cool if it dealt % health mixed damage, with like 40% being true, 60% split magic/physical. Might be too unintuitive for riot to ever implement, but it'd give him a reason to build health to somewhat mitigate the true, with resists to lower the other portions. Also makes it so that as he gets items/levels, he'll deal less damage to himself, and slowly increase the value of his passive. Well, i dunno if you just build HP since it a percent damage it still does a ridiculous amount of damage. And obviously they want you to build HP because his Passive based of of a % of your total HP. Either his passive needs to heal WAY more, or his abilities need to cost way less. I dunno, I shouldn't need to have Spirit Visage, A revolver, and get each one of my passive blobs (because it literally impossible champion vs champion) in order to not lose every trade. That just feels bad. Another option I think would be cool is to just give Zac a current HP ratio to all his spells damage. SO like, if you spell going to cost you 600 damage, it should do way more. /shrug no. when you get a %hp tank steroid then both mitigation and hp should be balanced to get the most EHP. because what %hp steroids really do is increase the EHP by that amount.
Have you played the Champion? It is impossible to get the passive HP increase blobs in any champion vs champion interation without not actually doing your job. You can't actually use your skills without gimping yourself for free. It literally doesn't matter what you build and thats the point.
As Z.A.C. it better to run at the other team and have them focus you to engage than it is to use your really cool abilities on them. And that sucks.
|
So far reading through all the complaints about Zac it sounds like he's gonna be shit tier unless Riot gives him a huge buff to his passive cause if he has to pick up the blobs to gain health he is fucked as a champion IMO
and by buff his passive i mean remove the blob pickup bullshit and give him flat health costs.
|
On March 18 2013 19:35 Dusty wrote:
So far reading through all the complaints about Zac it sounds like he's gonna be shit tier unless Riot gives him a huge buff to his passive cause if he has to pick up the blobs to gain health he is fucked as a champion IMO
and by buff his passive i mean remove the blob pickup bullshit and give him flat health costs.
Or just reduce the percentages by half or something. I dunno, right now it balanced so that he on par with every other champion if he picks up all the blobs. If he doesn't, he literally just like a free kill. If you dont pick up blobs you find yourself losing duels to bots.
<_<
The thing is, if an enemy champion walks over your blobs they die. Your passive as Zac is much more of a limiter that allows others to outplay you than an enabler that allows you to outplay others.
I just jungled him in a game, and I healed myself for 25k damage over the course of the game... I dunno, his healing/health costs are just way too much. They need to be normalized a ton. Thing is, if you healing 25K, chances are you hurting yourself for that much too, if not more because like I said you can't pick up your blobs in champion vs champion interactions and still trade properly because you lose out on autos.
Even playing mundo if you get like 5 Warmogs never seen my healing above like 15k.
It'd be palpable if they only traveled like 200 instead of like the 1000 they do currently, but as it is now its just ridiculous. Blobs fly over the walls a lot in the jungle even, which is silly. I do think if he released as is though he will be shit tier.
|
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On March 17 2013 22:23 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 18:09 nyxnyxnyx wrote:On March 16 2013 19:37 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
ok guys, wanna confirm something.
know how you can turn in last few moments of skarner's ult to get extra distance? does the same thing work for shen's ult? phrased differently, does shen's ult always make shen appear on the target's back? bump EDIT: nvm fuck u guys. CONFIRMED glad we could help
I laughed way harder than I should have.
|
On March 18 2013 19:46 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 19:35 Dusty wrote:
So far reading through all the complaints about Zac it sounds like he's gonna be shit tier unless Riot gives him a huge buff to his passive cause if he has to pick up the blobs to gain health he is fucked as a champion IMO
and by buff his passive i mean remove the blob pickup bullshit and give him flat health costs. Or just reduce the percentages by half or something. I dunno, right now it balanced so that he on par with every other champion if he picks up all the blobs. If he doesn't, he literally just like a free kill. If you dont pick up blobs you find yourself losing duels to bots. <_< The thing is, if an enemy champion walks over your blobs they die. Your passive as Zac is much more of a limiter that allows others to outplay you than an enabler that allows you to outplay others. I just jungled him in a game, and I healed myself for 25k damage over the course of the game... I dunno, his healing/health costs are just way too much. They need to be normalized a ton. Thing is, if you healing 25K, chances are you hurting yourself for that much too, if not more because like I said you can't pick up your blobs in champion vs champion interactions and still trade properly because you lose out on autos. Even playing mundo if you get like 5 Warmogs never seen my healing above like 15k. It'd be palpable if they only traveled like 200 instead of like the 1000 they do currently, but as it is now its just ridiculous. Blobs fly over the walls a lot in the jungle even, which is silly. I do think if he released as is though he will be shit tier.
As it stands now I'd want to invade zac and murder him every chance I got due to knowing how randomly low he can get if he's in the middle of a camp god forbid a buff camp early on.
Has anyone tried spell vamp quints on him to see if that might help at all? Once you pick up the spectral wraith item he doesn't seem like he hovers at around 80% mid clears. But yeah at the moment he's just not worth it. Luckily that's what PBE is for ^^
|
On March 18 2013 15:00 samthesaluki wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:50 UniversalSnip wrote:On March 18 2013 14:45 samthesaluki wrote:
i just played a bot game cause this girl invited me and i got given honorable opponent by 1 out of the 5 bots wtf.... hmm... did you play a game vs humans before that? maybe someone honored you from that game after you'd gotten into your next one i played humans about 2 hours b4 ....
The time elapsed isn't particularly important, just that they gave it to you after you'd already left the end lobby.
|
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
I like the changes they are making to Brand. Or rather, I like that they are taking a look at him.
He was the first champion that wowed me. I played against him and then saved up for him immediately. He was the first champ I got "good" with slash became comfortable with.
|
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Also, any news on DarkForce? Is he still pursuing LoL seriously? Does he stream it often?
|
On March 18 2013 16:10 spellsy wrote:this is the full album of the 3 mini guides, what do you guys think ? http://imgur.com/a/no6oD
I think that you should never suggest shard of true ice on anyone let alone someone who has a slow in their kit.
Twin Shadow's dominates it, even considering the spare MP5 on shard.
edit: I also don't understand why you have MR reds on nami/lulu. I can see why you would want MP5 blues over MR but you actually get more harass and fight out of AD as compared to MR reds, especially on ranged supports.
|
So I just noticed that allies affected by a Taric's ult now shine and sparkle, is that new?
|
On March 18 2013 21:00 Dusty wrote:
So I just noticed that allies affected by a Taric's ult now shine and sparkle, is that new?
Noone sparkles and shines as much as Taric himself tho.
|
On March 18 2013 20:54 JonGalt wrote:
Also, any news on DarkForce? Is he still pursuing LoL seriously? Does he stream it often?
Wait, there's a SC2 player called DarkForce? Is he german? I used to play Brood War with a guy called Darkforce.
|
On March 18 2013 21:27 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 20:54 JonGalt wrote:
Also, any news on DarkForce? Is he still pursuing LoL seriously? Does he stream it often? Wait, there's a SC2 player called DarkForce? Is he german? I used to play Brood War with a guy called Darkforce.
Yes he was a really good SC2 player.. I'm pretty sure he played BW too but I can't remember if it was under Darkforce..
|
I honestly hope they take a look at Quinn/Corki/Sivir. They're pretty much the only ADCs atm that aren't viable.
Cait could do with a slight nerf as well I think.
|
What's wrong with cait? She has pretty bad dps compared to most ads in compenstation for range.
|
So the idea behind zac is that you buy health so your spells do even more damage to you, correct?
|
On March 18 2013 14:19 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 12:57 spellsy wrote:
yea i think that playstyle is good and is kinda the standard style i tried to outline as well in the "lane pahse" text.
the weird thing i guess that i do is i like go into center of creeps every time im against like a lower range ADC or weak support, hide behind creeps and such and just whail on them with my passive Q etc., tossing the shield down to block creep dmg and maybe their 1 retaliation hit. This is the way i beat ezreal real hard imo. (cause he cant Q you since you are standing in the creeps). and it also works well with his passive cause you get all the souls from being in the creep line as well. I definitely agree with maxing W first. It's a free Locket for your team, and the recharge time of Q's passive is such that support Thresh doesn't really get a whole lot out of it. Blocking 220+ damage on both you and your AD in a skirmish (and sometimes also your jungler), potentially twice, is much stronger than the extra hook damage (especially due to your passive). Q second, however, is definitely better than E. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:35 YouGotNothin wrote:
So it seems to me Quinn didn't become that popular. I don't know if people are just playing or building her wrong but I certainly am having a hard time playing her as an adc. Her Q is good but a bit slow and a bit too narrow of a hit box it seems to me. Also her vault not making her untargetable is a huge liability. Her passive is cool but the slight randomness of it is a bit annoying when there are very few other random things in this game and the fact that the enemy can see it is just silly to me in lane. I think her biggest issue though is that her ult almost feels like it makes you weaker. You lose the passive, you lose your range, you lose the range on your Q, and you lose the mark/jump back of your E. Her ult really just seems good for chasing and cleaning up fights, its really not helpful at the beginning or middle of a fight and the execute on it is not that strong. I don't think she needs number buffs but a couple changes in how her abilities work would be nice. Is anyone having consistent success with Quinn? I don't think Quinn needs all that much in the way of adjustments, aside from E perhaps being slightly more crisp. Her problem is that she doesn't play like a traditional AD carry, and once people become used to that she'll be more popular. She's a much strong split-pusher than a team fighter, though in the right circumstances she's strong there as well. With BT+BotRK+LW she can practically solo anyone, and she can afford to build tanky from there.
So... my experience in 1v1ing quinn as Irelia top lane. I was miserable from 1-6. At level 7, I was behind 2 kills and a level and I could CS fine, mostly ignoring her. At level 9, I just completely stomped her out of lane, stunning her the moment she did her E to bounce off of me. If you can't 1v1 strong people mid / late game, you aren't going to be much of a splitpusher. Like, this wasn't even close, and I t hought I was getting outplayed in the lower levels (or at least, harassed competently.)
I forget her build, but it wasn't nonsense. I just don't see how you can splitpush when you get rolled over in the midgame by melees with either good gapclosers and/or CC. Singed roflstomps her because of how her E leaves her massively vulnerable. NAMI steps on her in bot lane along with other CC/skillshot supports (she uses Vault -> sits in a bubble) and that isn't even a problem solvable by making her untargettable during Vault - it's the same vulnerability Draven has with catching axes.
(For note, I was beating her soundly when my items consisted of a bilgewater, a Doran's Shield, and Ninja tabi. Maybe a dagger, but nowhere near finishing BORK)
|
The trade-off for caitlyn is still amazing. Her range allows her to be a decent bully in lane while she still scales amazingly into the lategame.
edit: I'm also really tired of the people claiming 'oh quinn isnt like a normal ADC just wait she'll become OP when she's picked by koreans/toplane/whatever' or other nonsense like that. She's simply bad and all these people saying she's fine will just delay any buffs that she desperately needs.
It's too bad though, just about every new champ release that I do pick-up turns out to be underwhelming. I picked up Syndra, Nami and Quinn on release day and none of them have impressed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
