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[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 27

Forum Index > LoL General
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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 15 2013 10:57 GMT
#521
Everyone who's posting right now, do yourself a favor, watch OGN Club Masters.
liftlift > tsm
Purge
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada372 Posts
February 15 2013 11:00 GMT
#522

+ Show Spoiler +
I think improvement in League is fairly simple.

Don't die. Try to do as much as you can without dying. Make every potential play possible (if it ends up worth it). If you never die and never miss CS and you autoattack the perfect amount that you can without dying and you never miss a kill because you don't capitalize on having an advantage, you will become the best player in the world.

I think unless you have some sort of code, you will feel lost while trying to improve. You have to climb the hill if you want to see the mountain.

Mechanics is something that improves by playing. You don't start playing BW for the first time and get 300 apm. You play a build over and over and over and over and then you reach 300 apm. Once last hitting and harassing becomes second nature to you, you will be able to do it without thinking and become able to focus on everything else (like map awareness). The more you think about the process of learning, the more complex it is, but it's in essence fairly simple, like I said above.

First try to get good at everything that you can imagine yourself doing, then take a look at your play and decide if you have somewhere else to go.

I think (but this might just be my opinion) that the easiest role to improve at is AD. If you want to get really in depth:
Managing to use every single auto attack cooldown to harass or hit a creep (while hitting every creep).
Every single death as the AD is a mistake (unlike the other roles).
You should always be farming, unless your team needs to take a fight (like defending Baron/dragon or hitting a timing where it's better to push towers than farm).
In teamfights, getting in as many auto attacks as you can and surviving the fight with 1 HP (unfortunately, realistically this cannot always happen, because damage taken doesn't come in sustained bursts and depends on positioning; the gist of it is that you should auto attack as many times as you can and still live)

It's very simple, really. Nobody is at that level of perfection, though, not even Weixiao. It's this perfection that every player should be striving for. Improvement never ends, not even Wx is perfect (yet).

And sure, sometimes it's better to give up a creep to get 50 free damage on an opponent, but if you're able to use every attack cooldown, you will be able to beat diamond AD carries easily. If somebody beats you by sacrificing creeps to harass, that is the time to learn it. I realize that improvement shouldn't be just comparing yourself to other plays, it should be a self analysis thing, but if you lose track of how to improve, then it's not worth it. I think it's better to improve your mechanics to a good level, see where they take you, and then try to improve everything else. You don't want to end up like Saint who doesn't know how to improve his mechanics, do you? The thinking part of the game is something everyone can do. Especially as an AD carry, you don't require too much game sense because killing their turret and then going to push mid is usually the best choice.

I wonder what it's with me today. I wrote so many detailed posts that many people aren't even going to read. I guess I have to do this from time to time. If somebody disagrees with some of my points, feel free to say so, but obviously experiences and opinions will always be different. This is my best way to improve.



In general I agree, thats a very good fundamental theory to improvement.thats what you should be aiming for for sure. A great example is the TSM vs Dig game today - Look @ Qtpie's play. He literally never left lane, dominated it, had them at their turret, and was constantly pushing, etc. If I was an aspiring AD, Id be like "that right there is what I want to be able to do." And Im pretty sure people get that

What I think the issue is that people dont know how to get there. In starcraft, people have devised exercises that directly contribute to getting to the top, at least to my knowledge. They give you fundamentals and say "Do this, isolate this skill and then work on the rest of the game." My biggest gripe with league right now is that we dont have that.
"Never do an enemy a small injury." - Machiavelli
Purge
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada372 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 11:07:20
February 15 2013 11:00 GMT
#523
On February 15 2013 19:57 wei2coolman wrote:
Everyone who's posting right now, do yourself a favor, watch OGN Club Masters.


Cant, Im supposed to be asleep, its..... 6 am >.> I should probably get some sleep before the sun comes up.
"Never do an enemy a small injury." - Machiavelli
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 11:39:59
February 15 2013 11:37 GMT
#524
Purge, you came out of nowhere but I like your posts.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 12:06:46
February 15 2013 11:46 GMT
#525
On February 15 2013 15:21 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh wait. These defense stats for Quinn:

Health:475(+85 per level)
Mana:245(+35 per level)
Movement Speed:335
Armor:17(+3.5 per level)
Magic Resist:30

Comparably:

Amumu has 472 (+84) health and 18 (+3.3) armor
Graves has 410 (+84) health and 15 (+3.2) armor
Zed has 445 (+85) health and 17.5 (+3.5) armor

You're reading the stats for level 1 Quinn compared to level "0" Amumu/Graves/Zed I think. The wiki has them at level 0 but the datamining gets them at level 1.

On February 15 2013 19:01 Ezkaton wrote:
Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti?
Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated

I like Tear on her now for the mana needs, with the reduced cost and how fast Syndra stacks it you reach a comfort zone where even without blue you can lane and spam forever pretty quickly. I've been liking to get DFG (or at least the codex) for the CDR since stacking tear and grail seems like overkill, but I'm probably doing it wrong. Haven't played enough of her s3.

On February 15 2013 17:56 Purge wrote:
Show nested quote +
considering the new liandrys, I'm wondering if it's now a decent pick on orianna. full dmg on her q and r, double dmg on her w and regarding her low cooldowns, you can get that proc very often.


It would make sense, but It doesnt give mana/mana regen/cdr, so probably not more than a third item. Or along with a tear.

Honestly the champs with the most potential with that item are like Singed and Swain. Full dot on everything in Swains kit? Looks completely stupid on paper.

I can't check it right now, maybe I'll be able to do it this evening, but apparently once you triggered Liandry, as long as you only refresh it (rather than trigger it again on this target after it has expired) it does the same amount of damage rather than recalculate its ticks on the target's current HP when your "refreshing" spell hits?
If it's true, that shit's completely OP.

Also Brand. Too bad he's a burst mage.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
February 15 2013 11:46 GMT
#526
DO YOU LIKE MINE?!
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
February 15 2013 12:09 GMT
#527
On February 15 2013 16:44 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2013 16:11 OutlaW- wrote:
I was already getting BotRK on Kogmaw last patch. Definitely going to get it now.

BotRK isn't actually all that compelling on Kog, given that 1) he needs attack speed more than more damage out of his first damage item because of his W, and 2) his kit makes him a really good Triforce user if you're looking for damage at the 1-2 item timing.

Stacking % HP damage is kind of cute, but not actually all that good. It's the same fallacious logic that led to the idea of Bloodrazor on Kog in S1, except its even worse because BotRK doesn't give attack speed while Bloodrazor did.


There's some sort of optimization heuristic people use where they presume similar benefits to be synergistic even when they don't do anything special together.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
February 15 2013 12:19 GMT
#528
On February 15 2013 19:57 wei2coolman wrote:
Everyone who's posting right now, do yourself a favor, watch OGN Club Masters.

Stop teasing the girl to death, give us the stream link :/
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
discator
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany639 Posts
February 15 2013 12:28 GMT
#529
On February 15 2013 21:19 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2013 19:57 wei2coolman wrote:
Everyone who's posting right now, do yourself a favor, watch OGN Club Masters.

Stop teasing the girl to death, give us the stream link :/



http://www.twitch.tv/ongamenet

there ya go
;;
Ophe
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden388 Posts
February 15 2013 12:30 GMT
#530
I've tried Quinn in the PBE now. Overall I think I like her but her passive feels really weird. To me it seems retarded to have a random passive that can win/lose a lane for you depending on how lucky you are with it. I've only tried her twice though so there might be a pattern to the passive that I havent found yet.
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
February 15 2013 12:43 GMT
#531
Yeah the passive is weird, you end up just waiting for it to make a move. The E is really nice to use, but the graphics seem abit off
KCCO!
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
February 15 2013 13:03 GMT
#532
On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.

My teamfighting is still iffy too.

I'll plug monte's series on the off chance he hasn't seen this post ;o
https://www.youtube.com/user/MontegomeryLoL

imo, monte is well on his way to becoming the day9 of LoL. His mondays with monte series has already helped me a ton.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 13:28:32
February 15 2013 13:12 GMT
#533
On February 15 2013 16:44 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2013 16:11 OutlaW- wrote:
I was already getting BotRK on Kogmaw last patch. Definitely going to get it now.

BotRK isn't actually all that compelling on Kog, given that 1) he needs attack speed more than more damage out of his first damage item because of his W, and 2) his kit makes him a really good Triforce user if you're looking for damage at the 1-2 item timing.

Stacking % HP damage is kind of cute, but not actually all that good. It's the same fallacious logic that led to the idea of Bloodrazor on Kog in S1, except its even worse because BotRK doesn't give attack speed while Bloodrazor did.


BotRK gives attack speed on the PBE now. At least its description says it does...

edit: someone already said this exact thing to yango last page. d'oh.

On February 15 2013 20:00 Purge wrote:

What I think the issue is that people dont know how to get there. In starcraft, people have devised exercises that directly contribute to getting to the top, at least to my knowledge. They give you fundamentals and say "Do this, isolate this skill and then work on the rest of the game." My biggest gripe with league right now is that we dont have that.


It's the nature of mechanics vs decision-making focus. In SC you *have* to have a certain level of mechanics to make certain decisions (though I never reached that level I hear it went the other way too). You could get better by isolating and practicing one thing over and over.

In league that's just not possible aside from CS or organized 5v5 partner teams and the differences between what pros do and what newbies do aren't obvious at all aside from CS and a few big plays. In SC you can look at someone clicking all over the map and say "man I'm so slow compared to them" but in LoL it's a lot harder to see how a pro's harassment is that much different or better than your own.

It's like when I played SSB:M vs Seuss/Monte years ago. I was the most mechanically proficient in my small circle of friends but beating Seuss was difficult (I lost more than I won) because the element of reading and exploiting other people's moves and intentions is a whole different ballgame from spamming a bunch of good moves without thinking much and IMO most people never reach that level consistently. That was when I realized that Seuss was better than me at video games competitively.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
February 15 2013 13:24 GMT
#534
I think Riot is buffing it way too heavily, as they often do. Sometimes I just don't know what they're doing.
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
February 15 2013 13:41 GMT
#535
On February 15 2013 20:46 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2013 15:21 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh wait. These defense stats for Quinn:

Health:475(+85 per level)
Mana:245(+35 per level)
Movement Speed:335
Armor:17(+3.5 per level)
Magic Resist:30

Comparably:

Amumu has 472 (+84) health and 18 (+3.3) armor
Graves has 410 (+84) health and 15 (+3.2) armor
Zed has 445 (+85) health and 17.5 (+3.5) armor

You're reading the stats for level 1 Quinn compared to level "0" Amumu/Graves/Zed I think. The wiki has them at level 0 but the datamining gets them at level 1.

Seems incorrect as well, when I went on the PBE, she only had 330 MS.
BlueSpace
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2182 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-15 13:46:59
February 15 2013 13:44 GMT
#536
Regarding the BotrK discussion. Your target has to have around 2.2k HP so that the average damage of a BotrK becomes larger than that of a fully stacked bloodthirster. With all the giant belts and adc building mogs it does sound attractive to replace a BT with a BotrK. So basically if you're expecting to fight high health targets most of the time and your build includes a BT, you might want to consider replacing the BT with a Botrk. Of course this doesn't say anything about timings, but apart from that there are probably late game 6-item scenarios where selling a BT and picking up a BotrK is actually worth it.

Edit: One question regarding the passive. Is the heal calculated before or after armor? So are you flat healing for 2.5% of the actual health of your target or is it (5% actual health - armor)/2 heal?
Probe1: "Because people are opinionated and love to share their thoughts. Then they read someone else agree with them and get their opinion confused with fact."
discator
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany639 Posts
February 15 2013 13:52 GMT
#537
I like them buffing every single damage item in the game lol. This "we build health so you cant kill us but we cant kill u neither" is getting boring imo.
;;
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
February 15 2013 13:58 GMT
#538
On February 15 2013 22:44 BlueSpace wrote:
Regarding the BotrK discussion. Your target has to have around 2.2k HP so that the average damage of a BotrK becomes larger than that of a fully stacked bloodthirster. With all the giant belts and adc building mogs it does sound attractive to replace a BT with a BotrK. So basically if you're expecting to fight high health targets most of the time and your build includes a BT, you might want to consider replacing the BT with a Botrk. Of course this doesn't say anything about timings, but apart from that there are probably late game 6-item scenarios where selling a BT and picking up a BotrK is actually worth it.

Edit: One question regarding the passive. Is the heal calculated before or after armor? So are you flat healing for 2.5% of the actual health of your target or is it (5% actual health - armor)/2 heal?

The heal from the active effect will always be equal to 150 (+50% Total AD) - it is calculated before the effects of damage mitigation are considered.
Disregarding the active ability, to exceed damage gained by a fully stacked The Bloodthirster on a target, the target must have at least 1100 health. To deal more average damage to a target than a The Bloodthirster from full to no health, the target must have over 2200 health.
Your attacks deal 5% of the target's current health in physical damage and heals you for half the amount (120 max. vs. minions) - heals half the damage of the damage that is dealt
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
February 15 2013 14:16 GMT
#539
On February 15 2013 20:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
Purge, you came out of nowhere but I like your posts.


Playing favorites again, I see. =P
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 15 2013 14:23 GMT
#540
u jelly?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
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