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Australia18228 Posts
On February 15 2013 17:21 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 16:44 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 16:11 OutlaW- wrote:
I was already getting BotRK on Kogmaw last patch. Definitely going to get it now. BotRK isn't actually all that compelling on Kog, given that 1) he needs attack speed more than more damage out of his first damage item because of his W, and 2) his kit makes him a really good Triforce user if you're looking for damage at the 1-2 item timing. Stacking % HP damage is kind of cute, but not actually all that good. It's the same fallacious logic that led to the idea of Bloodrazor on Kog in S1, except its even worse because BotRK doesn't give attack speed while Bloodrazor did. I think that comment was made with the understanding that BotRK is getting attack speed. The problem with Bloodrazor wasn't that it had bad damage, it was that it was expensive given that it didn't have a large amount of multiplicative stats on it. The old bloodrazor was 3800 gold for less damage than the new BotRK and no sustain. The new BotRK is only ~3000 gold, 900 gold less than triforce, 800 less than madreds and it has both a strong active and, most importantly sustain. If you're worried about an early warmogs/locket catapulting the enemies HP then the BotRK might make a lot of sense, if the enemy has 2000 HP, the passive bonus damage will equate to about 100 damage which should make the BotRK the highest single damage item for dedicated auto attackers.
Bloodrazor was also magical damage, and most tanks had at least 100 mres, so you'd be doing only 1% of their HP extra per hit.
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considering the new liandrys, I'm wondering if it's now a decent pick on orianna. full dmg on her q and r, double dmg on her w and regarding her low cooldowns, you can get that proc very often.
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considering the new liandrys, I'm wondering if it's now a decent pick on orianna. full dmg on her q and r, double dmg on her w and regarding her low cooldowns, you can get that proc very often.
It would make sense, but It doesnt give mana/mana regen/cdr, so probably not more than a third item. Or along with a tear.
Honestly the champs with the most potential with that item are like Singed and Swain. Full dot on everything in Swains kit? Looks completely stupid on paper.
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Why is jungle annie with spirit stone bad?
Seems like it would be pretty strong.
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On February 15 2013 17:56 Purge wrote:Show nested quote +considering the new liandrys, I'm wondering if it's now a decent pick on orianna. full dmg on her q and r, double dmg on her w and regarding her low cooldowns, you can get that proc very often. It would make sense, but It doesnt give mana/mana regen/cdr, so probably not more than a third item. Or along with a tear. Honestly the champs with the most potential with that item are like Singed and Swain. Full dot on everything in Swains kit? Looks completely stupid on paper.
True, I was more thinking like Athenes-DCap-Liandrys as you suggested. Should be stupid damage. And yeah I so have to try that on swain and malzahar.
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Q Max cassiopia with tear Liandries, try to stay in lane vs that.
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I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy too.
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On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy though.
God knows I know that feeling >.> The issue is, most pros have a background in DotA/HoN, and so they just refined their basics in those games and then adapted. So when they say "just watch replays and streams/play more" they say that because they already know where to look to improve.
I was considering coming up with something like that, but Im Silver II so I didnt think that I had the expertise to do it. If I had to give a quick suggestion itd be to segment your practice in games. Say like laning as AD - which is trading/farming/map awareness. Id suggest you watch a series of replays of your old games, and watch your decision making (going in for cs under threat, threatening enemy going in for cs, starting fights with your support), or mechanics. Watch like 3 games, see how you do that/where you make mistakes etc, then go into a game while they are fresh on your mind and then try to improve. That should take out some of the arbitraryness of the whole thing. If i had to guess Id suggest duo qing with a sona/lulu who are essentially neutral in lane so you can work on your play instead of playing to your support (which you should do, i.e. aggro with Leona/passive with soraka).
Stuff you should be working on are like choosing when to cs vs when to harrass (Dlift has said that this is the mark of a good laner, if your enemy will lose alot for 1cs then dont let him take it) and actually csing under pressure (which practicing in solo custom games will not help you to learn).
At the end of your game, think about your mistakes, and if you want to watch your replay .
For map awareness, from what I understand its possible to be looking @ your minimap at any point when you are not under pressure (ie getting pushed on or taking damage), so make a habit of looking @ it during the dull periods in bot lane (which happen often). If you get ganked and you dont know how it happened, watch your replay to see where the jungler was ( prefferably spectator mode - Nyjacky does this to improve).
And that's just laning (although map awareness is as core as good mechanics are). There is even more to learn about midgame (such as learning when where to farm, putting out map pressure, positioning in teamfights, etc). For example, you have to watch your character in teamfights (kind of goes without saying) but on AD, it can be best if you lock your camera with spacebar (Dlift does this). Learning to do that on reflex, and get used to the camera shift is going to up your positioning in teamfights by miles.
Just curious, If I committed to doing something like that, would people actually read it? I mean I think I could, but I dont want to do it and have it just be a waste of time.
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On February 15 2013 18:11 sob3k wrote:
Why is jungle annie with spirit stone bad?
Seems like it would be pretty strong.
It probably isnt bad, but Itd be tricky to pull off. Her Achilles' heel is still going to be her range. The real issue, as it is with most ap junglers, is why bother play them while Xin Zhao or J4 or Vi are as strong as they are, not to mention others.
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Wow your post is so in depth. Really gave me a lot to think about. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Thanks a lot.
I'll be sure to revisit this post a few times, also the camera lock thing actually seems like a really good idea.
I'd read it if you did that kinda thing.
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Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti?
Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated 
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On February 15 2013 18:21 sob3k wrote:
Q Max cassiopia with tear Liandries, try to stay in lane vs that.
I think by the time you get liandries your Q should be at least level 3 anyway, and maxing E is just too good.
As far as I'm aware, though, the bonus effect of liandries doesn't actually depend on the damage of the spell that procs it, so it doesn't really matter. Getting Es in is still Cassio's main damage.
On February 15 2013 18:46 Purge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 18:22 RagequitBM wrote:
I wish there was a Day[9]-esque person for League. Improving feels so arbitrary to me. Like I know I'm a better player than I used to be, because I used to get out-laned regularly, but now I can win lane against almost any below Silver I ADC. However, I'm not sure why I'm better.
My teamfighting is still iffy though. God knows I know that feeling >.> The issue is, most pros have a background in DotA/HoN, and so they just refined their basics in those games and then adapted. So when they say "just watch replays and streams/play more" they say that because they already know where to look to improve. I was considering coming up with something like that, but Im Silver II so I didnt think that I had the expertise to do it. If I had to give a quick suggestion itd be to segment your practice in games. Say like laning as AD - which is trading/farming/map awareness. Id suggest you watch a series of replays of your old games, and watch your decision making (going in for cs under threat, threatening enemy going in for cs, starting fights with your support), or mechanics. Watch like 3 games, see how you do that/where you make mistakes etc, then go into a game while they are fresh on your mind and then try to improve. That should take out some of the arbitraryness of the whole thing. If i had to guess Id suggest duo qing with a sona/lulu who are essentially neutral in lane so you can work on your play instead of playing to your support (which you should do, i.e. aggro with Leona/passive with soraka). Stuff you should be working on are like choosing when to cs vs when to harrass (Dlift has said that this is the mark of a good laner, if your enemy will lose alot for 1cs then dont let him take it) and actually csing under pressure (which practicing in solo custom games will not help you to learn). At the end of your game, think about your mistakes, and if you want to watch your replay . For map awareness, from what I understand its possible to be looking @ your minimap at any point when you are not under pressure (ie getting pushed on or taking damage), so make a habit of looking @ it during the dull periods in bot lane (which happen often). If you get ganked and you dont know how it happened, watch your replay to see where the jungler was ( prefferably spectator mode - Nyjacky does this to improve). And that's just laning (although map awareness is as core as good mechanics are). There is even more to learn about midgame (such as learning when where to farm, putting out map pressure, positioning in teamfights, etc). For example, you have to watch your character in teamfights (kind of goes without saying) but on AD, it can be best if you lock your camera with spacebar (Dlift does this). Learning to do that on reflex, and get used to the camera shift is going to up your positioning in teamfights by miles. Just curious, If I committed to doing something like that, would people actually read it? I mean I think I could, but I dont want to do it and have it just be a waste of time.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I think a silver player has so many ways to improve that this kind of in depth analysis isn't all that relevant. Imagine if a Starcraft 2 silver player had 30 apm and tried to find ways to improve in his 1 base 6 gate timing.
I think improvement in League is fairly simple.
Don't die. Try to do as much as you can without dying. Make every potential play possible (if it ends up worth it). If you never die and never miss CS and you autoattack the perfect amount that you can without dying and you never miss a kill because you don't capitalize on having an advantage, you will become the best player in the world.
I think unless you have some sort of code, you will feel lost while trying to improve. You have to climb the hill if you want to see the mountain.
Mechanics is something that improves by playing. You don't start playing BW for the first time and get 300 apm. You play a build over and over and over and over and then you reach 300 apm. Once last hitting and harassing becomes second nature to you, you will be able to do it without thinking and become able to focus on everything else (like map awareness). The more you think about the process of learning, the more complex it is, but it's in essence fairly simple, like I said above.
First try to get good at everything that you can imagine yourself doing, then take a look at your play and decide if you have somewhere else to go.
I think (but this might just be my opinion) that the easiest role to improve at is AD. If you want to get really in depth:
Managing to use every single auto attack cooldown to harass or hit a creep (while hitting every creep).
Every single death as the AD is a mistake (unlike the other roles).
You should always be farming, unless your team needs to take a fight (like defending Baron/dragon or hitting a timing where it's better to push towers than farm).
In teamfights, getting in as many auto attacks as you can and surviving the fight with 1 HP (unfortunately, realistically this cannot always happen, because damage taken doesn't come in sustained bursts and depends on positioning; the gist of it is that you should auto attack as many times as you can and still live)
It's very simple, really. Nobody is at that level of perfection, though, not even Weixiao. It's this perfection that every player should be striving for. Improvement never ends, not even Wx is perfect (yet).
And sure, sometimes it's better to give up a creep to get 50 free damage on an opponent, but if you're able to use every attack cooldown, you will be able to beat diamond AD carries easily. If somebody beats you by sacrificing creeps to harass, that is the time to learn it. I realize that improvement shouldn't be just comparing yourself to other plays, it should be a self analysis thing, but if you lose track of how to improve, then it's not worth it. I think it's better to improve your mechanics to a good level, see where they take you, and then try to improve everything else. You don't want to end up like Saint who doesn't know how to improve his mechanics, do you? The thinking part of the game is something everyone can do. Especially as an AD carry, you don't require too much game sense because killing their turret and then going to push mid is usually the best choice.
I wonder what it's with me today. I wrote so many detailed posts that many people aren't even going to read. I guess I have to do this from time to time. If somebody disagrees with some of my points, feel free to say so, but obviously experiences and opinions will always be different. This is my best way to improve.
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On February 15 2013 19:01 Ezkaton wrote:Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti? Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated
Don't play burst mages. They're in such a bad spot atm.
Apologies if you get upset over that, but its true. Carrying games as her, and APs in general is difficult with how much people stack health.
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On February 15 2013 19:14 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 19:01 Ezkaton wrote:Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti? Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated Don't play burst mages. They're in such a bad spot atm.
Yeah that's what I was starting to realize also, super hard to carry as Syndra or any mage :/
Is it more worth it just to play someone like Jayce/Khazix/Panth mid? I can already play them fairly decently because I main top. Or if I'm gonna play a mage is it better to just play Ryze lol
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If you play any mage with sustainable damage (Ryze and Cassie are perfect candidates) or with solid utility(Lux, Orianna, Anivia) then you're fine. Damage may be something aps aren't good at right now, but utility is ALWAYS useful.
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Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti?
Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated
The best syndra player I know of is L1nk115 (mid for clg), and he builds her RoA Dcap Void for the teamfight survivability, while abusing blue for the cdr. Then he gets Zhonyas for more survivablity, and abuses blue pot as well as blue buff for cdr. Im pretty sure he also sometimes gets Athenes, but he doesnt stream much so I cant really get a full read. He also is really fucking good at skillshots, so he chooses to maximize his damage with them instead of getting cdr and spam more of them.
It seems like you like playing her honestly. If you are looking to max your teamfight control through utilty (her stuns/slows) you get cdr through grail and get like Rylais and Dcap. Thats also the best option if you arent always on point with skillshots. If you are confident with your skillshots, then get damage through RoA and Dcap, then stack penetration and survivability. Im pretty sure you can abuse Liandries on her too, but It probably would fit in after either core in replacement of survivability.
Dont get Muramana, it will only affect her ulti, and you can always get DFG (which will do the same thing) for more damage and cdr earlier which will affect her entire kit. Its a noob trap.
In terms of playing her, you play her like Anivia - you control teamfights with your cc and aoe. Max Q/E in lane (Q for the improved damage and reduced cd, E for the increased width come teamfight time). Syndra's laning is amongst the best in the game. With grail you can poke forever, and you have no cast times on any of your abilities, so you can cast spheres on enemies when they stop for cs/are running away and they cant retaliate. doing that can very easily whittle down enemies and force them out of lane. She also enables ganks really well with her stun and slow (its really easy to Q them -> [smartcast]grab orb -> [smartcast] throw orb ->stun them with the same orb, which is a really long cc chain) or to stun people from fog in lane by standing on the ledges next to the sidebushes (ala morgana binding).
Syndra also clears waves really well with Q/W (note: creeps held in W take damage from W), so you can push and take mid turret when the enemy mid is roaming (and you know they wont get a kill/objective) or roam herself and take objectives.
In teamfights you just try and enable your bruisers by stunning their back line if you can, or peeling for your AD/support if you cant. As a control AP, you are to create situations for your team to win with your superior cc and aoe damage, not to kill the AD carry (similar logic applies to Anivia/Malz/Ori/Karthus/Lux). You dont excel at removing people, but syndra does have a very, very fast (as fast as stuns go) aoe stun that you can prime by using W to prevent them from dodging. Abuse it.
As far as ults go, save your ult in full 5v5s until you can kill(or enable their kill by chunking them) someone with it - Id suggest never opening with it if you can. Although you can try for the crazy 4 ball aoe stun which is really fucking good, its kind of a risk if you miss it. Also know that a max lvl 40% cdr syndra ult has a 48s cooldown, so dont be afraid to use it between objectives. Other standard uses of burst ults apply (if you can remove people from teamfights -even the support- before it starts do it, i.e. force them to b/kill them). Your ult is really your finisher, but your stun is an ulti level ability, use it.
@.@
Holy fuck I write essays.
Wow your post is so in depth. Really gave me a lot to think about. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Thanks a lot.
I'll be sure to revisit this post a few times, also the camera lock thing actually seems like a really good idea.
I'd read it if you did that kinda thing.
:D Your welcome.
Yeah Ive watched/played more than my fair share of this game to know whats up, putting it to paper thought really makes it coalesce. Still really bad thought because I dont play champs long enough to learn to stomp with them, and I dont spam op/easymode champs.
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On February 15 2013 19:19 Ezkaton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 19:14 Cloud9157 wrote:On February 15 2013 19:01 Ezkaton wrote:Hey guys, how has everyone been building Syndra?? I've recently picked her up and I'm seriously loving her. I've tried a few different builds and I haven't found one that i like really. Does muramana still proc from every orb in her ulti? Also with her in teamfights whats the best way to play her? I've just been trying to blow up the squishiest champ with my ult then just using q and w for damage, but im still kinda clueless haha, mid is probably my weakest lane by far so any advice is appreciated Don't play burst mages. They're in such a bad spot atm. Yeah that's what I was starting to realize also, super hard to carry as Syndra or any mage :/ Is it more worth it just to play someone like Jayce/Khazix/Panth mid? I can already play them fairly decently because I main top. Or if I'm gonna play a mage is it better to just play Ryze lol
Syndra is not a burst carry, she is a control AP mid like Anivia or (to a lesser extent) Lux. You maximize your cc lategame (which is very, very good). They are the hardest to play though because they are the least forgiving with positioning. I personally am going to learn her because you can pretty much pick her into anything other than assassins mid (and even then you can outplay with your knockback/stun range) and she does amazing burst midgame, and has really good cc and teamfight control lategame. Only people Id fear are Olaf, Kassadin and maybe talon.
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On February 15 2013 19:25 Cloud9157 wrote:
If you play any mage with sustainable damage (Ryze and Cassie are perfect candidates) or with solid utility(Lux, Orianna, Anivia) then you're fine. Damage may be something aps aren't good at right now, but utility is ALWAYS useful.
Yup - Utility is so strong that with enough utility you dont need damage to be useful (see supports). Also Cass is hard as fuck right now but she easily has the title of strongest non-mainstream champion. A good Cass will wreck face with liandries....
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Thanks guys! Gave me a lot to think about
My mid champion roster is pretty small at the moment so I might also pick up lux/ori or maybe cass.
Thanks again for the in depth posts!
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EPT
