EPTOn January 03 2013 12:42 Irave wrote:
Wave, Soniv.
Do the good work.
[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 255
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Wave, Soniv. Do the good work. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Ugh! UGH! No. I just can't work my head around it. This game it's a Talon and a Vayne (and a Nunu to add some MS) and I just feel utterly useless as Nami. Long cooldowns, huge mana costs, and I really feel like her utility doesn't make up for it at all. Imagine if Orianna's W had double the mana cost for only 75% of the MS buff/debuff. That's how I feel playing Nami. Also, chalice mandatory. T_T | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Her heal's bad, W's AoE is joke, Q is super easy to flash as is ult(and they don't even CC for enough to make it worthwhile). E would be OK but at least in bottom lane if you E your AD or yourself and go auto them the enemy duo is just going to chunk you especialy considering how weak Nami is in the early 2v2 skirmish. W mana cost is really stupid by the way. If you could normally chain it on 3 allies then okay, sure. But as is it really makes no sense. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:03 Alaric wrote: Ugh. Ugh! UGH! No. I just can't work my head around it. This game it's a Talon and a Vayne (and a Nunu to add some MS) and I just feel utterly useless as Nami. Long cooldowns, huge mana costs, and I really feel like her utility doesn't make up for it at all. Imagine if Orianna's W had double the mana cost for only 75% of the MS buff/debuff. That's how I feel playing Nami. Also, chalice mandatory. T_T At least chalice builds into a more support oriented item now haha. Can't really speak to her current strength, I've heard plenty of people talk about how she's strong and then I've seen people that share your sentiment that she has too many negatives to justify her positives. I think she's fine in some comps, but can't be picked in almost all situations like say Lulu. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:03 Alaric wrote: Ugh. Ugh! UGH! No. I just can't work my head around it. This game it's a Talon and a Vayne (and a Nunu to add some MS) and I just feel utterly useless as Nami. Long cooldowns, huge mana costs, and I really feel like her utility doesn't make up for it at all. Imagine if Orianna's W had double the mana cost for only 75% of the MS buff/debuff. That's how I feel playing Nami. Also, chalice mandatory. T_T It doesn't help that all of her CC abilities are crazy easy to read and avoid. Like her ult is honestly trash, I don't think I've ever been hit by it and her stun/snare bubble thing is by far the easiest CC to dodge in bot lane. I don't wanna say she's just flat out bad. I will say that I don't know when you'd pick Nami over any other support. Maybe when she gets some inevitable buffs she'll be good because her kit looks fine on paper. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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Louuster
Canada2869 Posts
On January 03 2013 07:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: About to go have lunch with Dyrus Who's your famous RL friend? omg now playing with dyrus on stream | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
And yeah, I don't feel bad about buying chalice on a support that benefits from it (Taric as soon as you get some cdr because heal spam, Sona, Janna, etc.) as long as it actually makes the champ better, but in Nami's case, it's not "becoming better" as much as "required to be playable". I guess you could also take an early mana manipulator to transform into shard, but then you lose out on the earlier gp5, and since Nami needs to win trades to justify the pick (her poke/sustain not being strong/safe enough by themselves) I'd much rather get emblem or work on a Locket so that I get stats that I will be making use of. Having to get early MR or just mp5 only emphasizes how squishy you are. Of course I'm not asking for a rupture-like spell, or a heal that would rival Soraka's, but even putting Q on a ~7s cooldown (usually locket+cdr boots+util mastery for 31%) doesn't make it feel useful because of the long delay/travel time for the spell, and shortish cc (it's arguably not that bad since it's not cleansable). So it's extremely easy to dodge, and against burst threats you can't use it for clutch saves because even if you're sitting right on your carry a lot of damage will go through before the bubble encases said threat. W makes her very exposed, while only being useful if you're wounded first, unless you plan on casting it on the enemy and healing their riposte—won't happen, the heal is pretty weak. Sona's heal is weaker, but spammable, costs down to 60% only of Nami's (for 65% the healing), doesn't need to have an enemy near to heal both of you, and also gives up to 35 armor/MR to both targets, which is much more efficient when trading (a point could be made that Sona's W is maxed second or even last while Nami maxes her heal though). E is... I dunno. Your animation is so awkward you'd barely get to use all 3 autos during a medium-length trade so you want to use it on your carry anyway, and for most of the laning phase it'll remain as a weak 75 damage and 15% slow (dunno what to max 2nd, I did Q because the way lanes went I knew we wouldn't want to trade autos much), so it's more of a "here, get a MS boost and a little slow so you can attack once or twice more", which works better when you're already ahead, or with long-range champs, like Cait (when you can also use Q as a disengage and just poke people), in which case your W is even more awkward to use. Her ult... there'd be more to tell, but I feel her ult isn't even the problem. It has uses, and even though I talk about Naut I'd use theirs in different situations so it definitely has good sides. I still think the way it works (very short knock-up, okayish slow, very long cooldown) doesn't help its use as a kiting/disengage tool, despite it being one of it's more interesting uses I believe. It's not even about numbers (Q AoE is damn narrow, W is way to expensive mana-wise, she brings low utility because of cooldowns but her damage is subpar), I think the nature of her kit in itself doesn't lend itself well to supporting. It requires stuff from the champ she supports (mainly engaging and chasing—since she's squishy she'd better stay in the back so it's easy to escape her—capabilities, or cc for her Q to follow up) that you usually rely on the support to provide. I could see her working with Varus or Caitlyn (not Ashe: bad pairing because low mobility and poorest damage after Ashe-Soraka) but even then part of her capabilities would have to be ditched. In itself it doesn't necessarily means it's a bad thing, though: maybe she's actually excellent at supporting some type of melee or caster/on-hit oriented (Fizz, Teemo) champion and we simply haven't discovered it yet, or it's simply impractical because it doesn't go well with the current meta, it happens. But she feels pretty awkward and underwhelming, and even in teamfights she isn't fun to play. Saddens me because I like her quotes and stuff, but I'm so frustrated when I try her... | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:16 overt wrote: It doesn't help that all of her CC abilities are crazy easy to read and avoid. Like her ult is honestly trash, I don't think I've ever been hit by it and her stun/snare bubble thing is by far the easiest CC to dodge in bot lane. Her ult is dodgeable but it invites counterplay. This may make her weaker but I'd prefer it if the whole game had counterplay instead of multiple iterations of Zyra's ult which is an essentially unavoidable (without flash) BS knockup. I looked at Nami's mana costs but they don't look high at all. None except her W ,if you max it, which seems to do 230 AoE damage to two targets and heal one target for up to 180 at max rank, has a high mana cost. Even with its cost, it looks like one of the highest efficiency spells in the game. On par with Sion's shield since it acts as an offensive and defensive skill. Her other abilities are 60 mana. Which is around the same as Sona. I haven't played any Nami yet but her mana costs look average, which is new. I thought Riot was never going to make another champion with a mana bar that players need to pay attention to again after Rengar, Darius, Jayce, Elise, Kha'zix, etc... Play some DoTA or Zilean if you want to experience mana costs. Mana bars take skill to manage. They also influence item choices. I like it when champions are limited by mana. I only played against Nami once. I was able to dodge I think all her stun bubbles in laning phase and I think this is what contributes to Taric having such a high win rate in solo queue over other supports: the fact that prior to level 6 he has a point and click stun that he can use to help ganks and all ins. And even after level 6 his stun will never be on cooldown like a lot of ults will. No other support has that. Once a stun lands all the other skills can't be dodged which is different from slows or silence. If this is true and Riot buffs Nami so her win rate will be as high as Taric's without making her cc harder to avoid, then her other abilites will be obnoxious to deal with. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:42 obesechicken13 wrote: Her ult is dodgeable but it invites counterplay. This may make her weaker but I'd prefer it if the whole game had counterplay instead of multiple iterations of Zyra's ult which is an essentially unavoidable (without flash) BS knockup. Yeah but Nami's ult is pretty bad. Maybe it's just because other supports have far better ults. Or maybe Nami's ult is just harder to use. I really can't remember a single time that I've been hit by Nami ult. Maybe I'm just playing against bad Nami's or something but shit. And her ult being not as strong as some other supports isn't necessarily a problem. But the rest of her kit just seems lack luster. It could really just be a skill cap issue but any time I've laned with a Nami it's been crazy hard to do well and every time I lane against Nami I either get fed or build up a significant CS advantage. Like it's a problem when shit like support Teemo is scarier to lane against than support Nami. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Wait since when is Destiny like 1.8k elo? Last I saw he was at like 1100 elo and playing AD terribly | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:38 SnK-Arcbound wrote: So I turned on destiny's stream because of the posts here. Incredibly annoying. Ragey. Stupid. I wouldn't be worried about his elo. There are players like shake and durr at 1800 who will just take all his elo away. I think they might have gotten too used to other players being competent at their roles at 2200+ though, so they'll have to figure that out how to carry again. Edging out a win by playing that 5% better isn't a viable strategy with the variability of play I find at 1800. Yo I'm 1950. And yea I did take his elo away hue. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 03 2013 12:28 Alaric wrote: I dunno, I mean, what does she offer for those lanes that another support doesn't? Another thing that bothered me is that she has no way of initiating a trade—even if she Ws and it hits both their carry and yours, you'll have a little MS buff in exchange for a sure counterattack on you. And her ult is kinda slow so you shouldn't surprise them. It didn't change much since that was a Leona so I wouldn't engage on her, but in other lanes... She has a very easy time starting a trade, the idea is that you E your AD, this gives them 30MS to walk in and hit their AD, then their Ad is slowed while your ad hits them with the remaining charges, you then W bounce to heal and add damage and give the bonus MS to disengage or follow up. Q can be added in after the slow or if they retreat is more easily landed. Just about nobody can trade with the 3 procs and a bounce on her W, not to mention a Q if you land it. Also anyone who says Nami's ult is bad...I just dont even know what to say. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:42 obesechicken13 wrote: I thought Riot was never going to make another champion with a mana bar that players need to pay attention to again after Rengar, Darius, Jayce, Elise, Kha'zix, etc... Play some DoTA or Zilean if you want to experience mana costs. Mana bars take skill to manage. They also influence item choices. I like it when champions are limited by mana. do you even bug? | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
Hotshot said the words "I said' like 10 times in 4 seconds. | ||
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