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[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…

Forum Index > LoL General
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thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
November 08 2012 22:25 GMT
#5141
On November 09 2012 07:04 Simberto wrote:
How about we use actual numbers instead of vague feelings?

Let's say you are a support, no kills happen in your lane.

You do a faerie, 3 wards, 3 pots start, and buy items as soon as you got the money. Lets say your initial wards last 6 minutes, and afterwards you want to have 2 wards up at all times, meaning 1 ward every 1.5 minutes. Your income is 13 base, 2 from masteries, 3 from quints, for a total of 18 gold/10s.

At 5:53, you can afford your Ruby crystal.
at 7:30, you have 175 g, and have to buy 2 wards, so back to 25. You basically have a decreased income from now on because you continously have to buy wards, 1 ward every 1.5 minutes = 8.3 gp10, so from here on on, your income is decreased to 10 gp10. So you gain exactly 1 gold per second.
Now is where the 2 builds differentiate. Let's look at finishing HoG, then building a Philo afterwards:

You finish HoG at 12:55, and now have an income of 15gp10, which allows you to
Finish your Philo at 19:48

If you would have went Philo-HoG instead, you would:
Get a regrowth at 14:20
Finish your Philo at 17:25
Finish HoG at 21:18

Thus, in this case, you get your life regeneration about 5 minutes earlier, but finish your 2 gp10s 1.5 minutes later, costing you a total of 180g due to later gp10 items. You would probably also want to fit boots somewhere in there.

Now, this is obviously a rather specific case. If you return to base with enough gold for wards + philo when you already have a ruby, it would be foolish to buy a HoG instead. But if you return to base with enough gold for a HoG + wards, but not enough for a regrowth, it would also be foolish not to buy HoG. So it greatly depends on how much money you have when you go back the next time after your Ruby.


To add on to this, if you are rushing an aegis, going HoG->Aegis is indeed faster than going Philo->Aegis if you already got a ruby crystal:

After getting ruby crystal it's 350s to get HoG (using the above 10g/10s factoring in ward spend). Then it's another (1925/1.5)=1283s to Aegis, total time 1633s after the ruby crystal.

If going philo, the it's 800s to philo, then another (1450/1.5)=967s to Aegis (aegis cost reduced because you still have the ruby crystal in your inventory), total time 1767s after the ruby crystal.
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
November 08 2012 22:29 GMT
#5142
Hi Neo
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
November 08 2012 22:30 GMT
#5143
On November 09 2012 06:11 Sufficiency wrote:
I actually own Karma. She is just too awkward to play. She can shove the lane, but she has short range, a poor early game, and a very poor late game.

my friend showed me this one cheese...
with trist, at level 2, karma takes "free" poke... then trist jumps, mantra shield + fans = death.

then he bought oracles and boots of mobility and became kross kountry karma and dewarded the entire map. then i got 9 kills as jungler.

this game is funny.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 08 2012 22:32 GMT
#5144
On November 09 2012 07:29 Bladeorade wrote:
Hi Neo


zzzzzz
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
November 08 2012 22:33 GMT
#5145
FYI I suck at AD... fun times
Argoth.
Profile Joined December 2004
Germany1961 Posts
November 08 2012 22:33 GMT
#5146
Interesting. Good guy yellowpete plays on colorblind mode so that eventual colorblind viewers can watch it more easily. who would have thought
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 08 2012 22:33 GMT
#5147
On November 09 2012 07:33 Bladeorade wrote:
FYI I suck at AD... fun times


Carry or ban.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Bladeorade
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1898 Posts
November 08 2012 22:34 GMT
#5148
On November 09 2012 07:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:33 Bladeorade wrote:
FYI I suck at AD... fun times


Carry or ban.

Then on my back you go!
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
November 08 2012 22:34 GMT
#5149
On November 09 2012 07:22 TheLink wrote:
Today I learned that assist gold is a flat amount split among champions. So more assists does not = more total gold. So all those assists Sona gets when she presses E in a team-fight she's actually stealing gold from allied champions, and here I thought it was free money.

Theoretically supports not taking assists then is similar to supports not taking kills. Having AN assister is a pretty big benefit but more than one is not. Although at that point you're dealing in relatively small amounts of gold.

It still might be free gold if you took the +gold on assists/kills mastery in the tank tree (yeah right). Also, it's free mejai's/leviathan/occult stacks (double yeah right)

Can you imagine how hard a level 1 5-man gank on the jungler would snowball if assists actually generated free gold though?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-08 22:37:37
November 08 2012 22:37 GMT
#5150
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 08 2012 22:41 GMT
#5151
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657

Blitzcrank passive as an item active. Need champs to build this on nowwwwwwwww

I wonder what the Manamune equivalent will be?
It's your boy Guzma!
SgtSquiglz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States668 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-08 22:47:14
November 08 2012 22:45 GMT
#5152
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


I really like this item idea, actually. Though the idea of this shield on late game Ryze scares me....
Take anything I say with a grain of salt.....I suck at this game. Also, Go Blue!
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 08 2012 22:47 GMT
#5153
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


Turning on poison doesn't charge it though :-/

That's 188 flips/ults/goos assuming you didn't upgrade tear.
Freeeeeeedom
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 08 2012 22:49 GMT
#5154
Damn, I can't believe I missed the gp10/HoG is worthless discussion.
Moderator
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
November 08 2012 22:49 GMT
#5155
Ryze is gunna be boss. Time to get mana runes zzzzz.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
November 08 2012 22:50 GMT
#5156
GDC presentation by tryndamere back in 2010.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014158/LEAGUE-OF-LEGENDS-Postmortem-One

Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 08 2012 22:50 GMT
#5157
On November 09 2012 07:47 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


Turning on poison doesn't charge it though :-/

That's 188 flips/ults/goos assuming you didn't upgrade tear.

No, read it again. Spending mana gains tear charges. Every time poison causes you to drain a portion of mana, you gain a charge.
It's your boy Guzma!
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
November 08 2012 22:51 GMT
#5158
On November 09 2012 07:50 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:47 cLutZ wrote:
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


Turning on poison doesn't charge it though :-/

That's 188 flips/ults/goos assuming you didn't upgrade tear.

No, read it again. Spending mana gains tear charges. Every time poison causes you to drain a portion of mana, you gain a charge.

Only once every 3 seconds though.

I only hope that it's possible to look at Seraph's Embrace in the shop somehow before you buy it, otherwise it'd be pretty beginner-unfriendly (transforms into an item that you don't know what the stats are)
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-08 22:59:23
November 08 2012 22:54 GMT
#5159
On November 09 2012 07:45 SgtSquiglz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


I really like this item idea, actually. Though the idea of this shield on late game Ryze scares me....


TBH I am more worried about Singed right now. This item is basically saying Singed gets 25+25% mana as health in a teamfight.

On November 09 2012 07:51 thenexusp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:50 Requizen wrote:
On November 09 2012 07:47 cLutZ wrote:
On November 09 2012 07:37 Sufficiency wrote:
I had an orgasm thinking of the possibilities with Seraph’s Embrace on Singed, Karthus, and Cassiopeia.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2777657


Turning on poison doesn't charge it though :-/

That's 188 flips/ults/goos assuming you didn't upgrade tear.

No, read it again. Spending mana gains tear charges. Every time poison causes you to drain a portion of mana, you gain a charge.

Only once every 3 seconds though.

I only hope that it's possible to look at Seraph's Embrace in the shop somehow before you buy it, otherwise it'd be pretty beginner-unfriendly (transforms into an item that you don't know what the stats are)


But Singed did become the EASIEST champion to build Tear with. You just quickly doubletap Q every 3 seconds to quickly gain a Tear stack. The cost of building a stack for Singed will be 13-4 = 9 mana per stack. This is far cheaper than it is for Karthus and Cassiopeia.

I will definitely be building this on Karthus. It will also be a much better item on Cassiopeia now because it builds into something that gives survivability.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-08 22:57:56
November 08 2012 22:54 GMT
#5160
I'm curious how everyone took for granted the idea that "if you don't buy gp10 early, you're gimped midgame".

Because fundamentally, there's no mathematical basis for it. By the time "midgame" rolls around, a gp10 item has not generated even a Cloth Armor's worth of gold yet (and the only way you can possibly feel gimped is if there is a real itemization difference between having gp10 and not--and if the gold difference isn't as large as the value of the lowest possible combat stat item yet, then you won't notice any difference).

This isn't even considering the timing advantage of finishing big items sooner, or the timing disadvantage of buying items that run a deficit at the outset. Even if you consider just the pure gold gain, an item like HoG doesn't equate a free cloth armor for 20 minutes (10 minutes breaking even + 10 minutes generating a cloth armor). Which means "I feel gimped midgame without gp10" is more or less the LoL equivalent of the placebo effect. You should only begin to feel a noticeable effect at 35+ minutes (if you consider a free cloth armor at 35+ minutes noticeable), which is long past "midgame".
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