EPT[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:23 AsnSensation wrote: i think you're pretty wrong here, if supports decide to go 1Gp /5 only they I saw them purchase HoG in favour of Philo 99% of the time ( probably 100 but I dont want to be completely wrong haha) and rush zekes/Aegis I don't know. Philosopher's stone is actually very strong in lane and it builds into Shurelya's, which every team requires. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:25 RoieTRS wrote: How good is rushing shurelias? Depends on the team comps and even more on what your Jungler is buying. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:20 xes wrote: It only takes ~11 mins for HoG to pay enough that you are buying the HP at a cost efficient gold level. After that it is free money. On supports, you get no money so the tiny HP from a HoG is still something, esp for supports like alistar/taric/leona That's only to pay off the 300 overhead, right? But even then, that's 11 minutes for the item to become effective for it's cost, and it doesn't build in to anything. Ruby is technically cost efficient from the get-go, and builds into many wonderful things. No waiting required. Does it give you money late late game? No, but most solo queue games don't make it late late game (they occasionally do for sure, but the majority are decided by the 30 minute mark if not sooner, at least at my ELOw). Mayhaps it's just preference, but I'd rather start going towards items that are going to help the team, rather than sitting there thinking "this investment will be worth it! Eventually!". | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:25 Sufficiency wrote: I don't know. Philosopher's stone is actually very strong in lane and it builds into Shurelya's, which every team requires. Personally, I rather play the lane out passively, and get philo stone first, then hog, then kage's pick, into infinite wards. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:28 wei2coolman wrote: Personally, I rather play the lane out passively, and get philo stone first, then hog, then kage's pick, into infinite wards. Personally, I like to build my supports in the jungle, and rush triforce. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:30 Sandster wrote: Personally, I like to build my supports in the jungle, and rush triforce. I think, provided with infinite gold, Frozen Mallet is an awesome item on ranged supports. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:33 Slayer91 wrote: with infinite gold id probably just get 5 deathcaps and shield for 1000 you're silly, everyone knows you get more AP from 1 DC 4 AA staves. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:35 phyvo wrote: you're silly, everyone knows you get more AP from 1 DC 4 AA staves. Sell boots buy Lichbane for the movespeed. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:35 phyvo wrote: you're silly, everyone knows you get more AP from 1 DC 4 AA staves. Not to mention Janna's massive | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:35 phyvo wrote: you're silly, everyone knows you get more AP from 1 DC 4 AA staves. 5AA Who needs boots when you're AP Janna? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:35 phyvo wrote: you're silly, everyone knows you get more AP from 1 DC 4 AA staves. have to stack em | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
We just have to wait for solo-queue junglers to catch up to the proscene and start buying aegis. Aegis is way too OP to simply not get on the team but the stats actually synergise with junglers/bruisers. Most supports are going to get a lot stronger once other team members get aegis and they can start maxing CDR (shurelias/zekes etc). That'll also start freeing up room to skip HoG. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:01 kainzero wrote: never seen it come down to wards... of course it depends on who the supports are and what role they are, and i understand that warding is important, but in my experience it's not often that bot lane is won because of wards. I think it also matters who the AD carry is, for Vayne it's extremely useful to have wards in the lane bushes so she can condemn the enemy in there. Otherwise although wards don't specifically win you the lane, they do prevent you from losing it stupidly to a gank. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11335 Posts
Let's say you are a support, no kills happen in your lane. You do a faerie, 3 wards, 3 pots start, and buy items as soon as you got the money. Lets say your initial wards last 6 minutes, and afterwards you want to have 2 wards up at all times, meaning 1 ward every 1.5 minutes. Your income is 13 base, 2 from masteries, 3 from quints, for a total of 18 gold/10s. At 5:53, you can afford your Ruby crystal. at 7:30, you have 175 g, and have to buy 2 wards, so back to 25. You basically have a decreased income from now on because you continously have to buy wards, 1 ward every 1.5 minutes = 8.3 gp10, so from here on on, your income is decreased to 10 gp10. So you gain exactly 1 gold per second. Now is where the 2 builds differentiate. Let's look at finishing HoG, then building a Philo afterwards: You finish HoG at 12:55, and now have an income of 15gp10, which allows you to Finish your Philo at 19:48 If you would have went Philo-HoG instead, you would: Get a regrowth at 14:20 Finish your Philo at 17:25 Finish HoG at 21:18 Thus, in this case, you get your life regeneration about 5 minutes earlier, but finish your 2 gp10s 1.5 minutes later, costing you a total of 180g due to later gp10 items. You would probably also want to fit boots somewhere in there. Now, this is obviously a rather specific case. If you return to base with enough gold for wards + philo when you already have a ruby, it would be foolish to buy a HoG instead. But if you return to base with enough gold for a HoG + wards, but not enough for a regrowth, it would also be foolish not to buy HoG. So it greatly depends on how much money you have when you go back the next time after your Ruby. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
HoG -> Philo means you're sitting on 300 health and 3 mp5. Philo -> HoG means you're sitting on 280 health, 15 hp5, and 10 mp5. Even during the pieces, that's 280 Health, 15 hp5, and 3 mp5 with just the Regrowth. During that time, you make up the 20 health deficit every ~6 seconds. Not to mention Philo-Hog is inherently more flexible. If you're dead set on going double gp5s, sure it doesn't matter. But consider this situation: you go HoG first, but then you and your lane mate get a bunch of kills. Now, you have gold to spend, but you can't really rush an Aegis or Reverie because your Ruby is a HoG. If you go Philo first, that Ruby can turn into a HoG in a passive lane, but if you suddenly get an influx of gold (2-3 kills bot and then dragon afterwards), you can put the Ruby towards Aegis or Reverie instead of HoG. | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
 Theoretically supports not taking assists then is similar to supports not taking kills. Having AN assister is a pretty big benefit but more than one is not. Although at that point you're dealing in relatively small amounts of gold. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 09 2012 07:22 TheLink wrote: Today I learned that assist gold is a flat amount split among champions. So more assists does not = more total gold. So all those assists Sona gets when she presses E in a team-fight she's actually stealing gold from allied champions, and here I thought it was free money. Theoretically supports not taking assists then is similar to supports not taking kills. Having AN assister is a pretty big benefit but more than one is not. Although at that point you're dealing in relatively small amounts of gold. I would still do it, because of the extra 40exp. | ||
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