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On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary.
I am watching him for the first time now and I have to say I really like the commentary. He is explaining what is happening in the game/what he is doing very well and his voice isn't too bad either. Plus he is playing pretty well, which always helps.
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On November 03 2012 05:20 TheSinisterRed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary. I am watching him for the first time now and I have to say I really like the commentary. He is explaining what is happening in the game/what he is doing very well and his voice isn't too bad either. Plus he is playing pretty well, which always helps.
yeah, he's really good.
he's like a top lane version of scarra (except more useful commentary) and he streams longer.
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On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary.
Everyone is at MLG Dallas. He's the only decent one streaming. Cris is an asshole and most other streamers that are currently available to stream are nowhere near as good or popular as WoD. Other than krepo but he was only on earlier I believe (albeit with a lot more viewers than normal). And krepo isn't as funny as when he's playing with his team.
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On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary.
I like his actual commentary yeah but it also helps that a lot of the major streamers are at MLG atm :p
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United States23745 Posts
On November 03 2012 05:25 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary. I like his actual commentary yeah but it also helps that a lot of the major streamers are at MLG atm :p
Good on him though, make the money while everyone is busy haha.
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8748 Posts
On November 03 2012 04:51 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 04:42 Requizen wrote:
So ADC becomes very mechanical about how you position, kite, focusing targets, and moving around correctly. An AD that's out of position is generally more screwed than any other role. This varies from Kog (no CC or dash) all the way up to Ez (dat blink). This is a total pet peeve I have. Positioning is not mechanics. It's tactics. Positioning requires a good game sense, which has nothing to do with your mechanical abilities. For an ADC, knowing where to be and who to focus does not require good mechanical ability, it requires a good game sense.
Good positioning requires good awareness so it falls under mechanics.
To put it another way, the player with the better mechanics will be able to execute better with less effort and less attention. So more focus can be put on anticipating new threats. And that's what positioning is all about: maximizing your threat to the enemy while minimizing their threat to you. Positioning fails when there is some unanticipated threat. That usually happens when the player is distracted by something else, something that definitely falls under "mechanics" and if their mechanics were better then they wouldn't be so distracted.
Most ADC's don't die because they didn't know the range on an ability. They die because they didn't know that enemy champion was about to get in range and had that ability available. If you show them a screenshot just before it happened, they'd be able to recognize it with their knowledge. If you erased everything on the battlefield except that one threat, they surely would have avoided it in the game. But in a real game, team fights are hectic and it took them all their focus and attention to play mechanically well against the 3-4 guys they were focused on. Their mechanics failed when there were too many variables to calculate the correct next move in time to perform it.
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On November 03 2012 05:18 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:
Positioning is not mechanics. Efficient kiting is. Almost as exciting as SK Terran. Almost.
I spent like an entire minute trying to press my phone's screen wondering why an awesome VoD of like WeiXiao or Fantasy wasn't loading.
You make me sad.
On November 03 2012 05:05 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 04:59 TheYango wrote:
In the MOBA community, the term "mechanics" is sometimes corrupted somewhat to refer to familiarity with the mechanics of the game rather than just physical/muscle memory-based ability (which isn't relevant for a whole lot in the game to begin with). Positioning isn't really "game sense" in the sense that it requires that you have some certain idea of the gameflow and whatnot, but rather "game knowledge" in knowing the comparative spell ranges and engagement ability of the various champions in the game. maybe it's just me but i've hardly ever heard people from DotA use the term "mechanics." but i dunno, i think terms like "positioning" and "mechanics" are really just these vague terms that everyone uses and loosely understands, but they aren't really clearly defined and everyone has their own definition. it reminds me of people saying to work on your "fundamentals" in basketball. or fighting games.
I'm curious. What kind of terminology would you guys like to see being used more and what kind of stuff used less? Looking for feedback and ideas on how to approach article writing in the future.
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On November 03 2012 05:35 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:18 Celial wrote:On November 03 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:
Positioning is not mechanics. Efficient kiting is. Almost as exciting as SK Terran. Almost. I spent like an entire minute trying to press my phone's screen wondering why an awesome VoD of like WeiXiao or Fantasy wasn't loading. You make me sad. Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:05 kainzero wrote:On November 03 2012 04:59 TheYango wrote:
In the MOBA community, the term "mechanics" is sometimes corrupted somewhat to refer to familiarity with the mechanics of the game rather than just physical/muscle memory-based ability (which isn't relevant for a whole lot in the game to begin with). Positioning isn't really "game sense" in the sense that it requires that you have some certain idea of the gameflow and whatnot, but rather "game knowledge" in knowing the comparative spell ranges and engagement ability of the various champions in the game. maybe it's just me but i've hardly ever heard people from DotA use the term "mechanics." but i dunno, i think terms like "positioning" and "mechanics" are really just these vague terms that everyone uses and loosely understands, but they aren't really clearly defined and everyone has their own definition. it reminds me of people saying to work on your "fundamentals" in basketball. or fighting games. I'm curious. What kind of terminology would you guys like to see being used more and what kind of stuff used less? Looking for feedback and ideas on how to approach article writing in the future.
I AM SO SORRY! I noticed that I clicked the wrong button and changed it to italics - apparently too late to save you. ='(
Now I have to go watch VoDs.
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On November 03 2012 05:33 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 04:51 Ketara wrote:On November 03 2012 04:42 Requizen wrote:
So ADC becomes very mechanical about how you position, kite, focusing targets, and moving around correctly. An AD that's out of position is generally more screwed than any other role. This varies from Kog (no CC or dash) all the way up to Ez (dat blink). This is a total pet peeve I have. Positioning is not mechanics. It's tactics. Positioning requires a good game sense, which has nothing to do with your mechanical abilities. For an ADC, knowing where to be and who to focus does not require good mechanical ability, it requires a good game sense. Good positioning requires good awareness so it falls under mechanics. To put it another way, the player with the better mechanics will be able to execute better with less effort and less attention. So more focus can be put on anticipating new threats. And that's what positioning is all about: maximizing your threat to the enemy while minimizing their threat to you. Positioning fails when there is some unanticipated threat. That usually happens when the player is distracted by something else, something that definitely falls under "mechanics" and if their mechanics were better then they wouldn't be so distracted. Most ADC's don't die because they didn't know the range on an ability. They die because they didn't know that enemy champion was about to get in range and had that ability available. If you show them a screenshot just before it happened, they'd be able to recognize it with their knowledge. If you erased everything on the battlefield except that one threat, they surely would have avoided it in the game. But in a real game, team fights are hectic and it took them all their focus and attention to play mechanically well against the 3-4 guys they were focused on. Their mechanics failed when there were too many variables to calculate the correct next move in time to perform it.
So what I got out of the last post:
Mechanics is hand speed + mind speed
Knowledge is knowing what to do if you had time to think about it
Hand speed is generally not an issue in LoL like it is in SC2. So basically, without mechanics, you won't be able to reach the correct decision fast enough. Without knowledge, you won't be able to reach the correct decision at all.
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I just think the word mechanics is used to refer to more or less everything, and it bugs me. I think fundamentals is a better term if you want to be all encompassing.
To Tyler, I understand what you're saying, but I still don't think I would agree on the wording. Being distracted, not seeing a threat, trying to monitor a bunch of things at once, I wouldn't call that mechanical skill, I'd call that something more psychological like game sense or something like that. After you've decided what to do, how well you execute what you've decided to do is what I'd call mechanics.
To put it another way, if the ADC doesn't see somebody coming up and attacking them, I'd call that an awareness issue, not a mechanics issue. If they see the guy coming and don't flash out of the way fast enough, then it's a mechanics issue.
Often a real problem in a real game would be a little bit of both, naturally.
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On November 03 2012 05:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 02:31 Numy wrote:At least it's just your twitch. Come 7ish PM I warp around in LoL, nothing else lags. So I can only LoL during the day  Also yesterday I noticed something really interesting on WoDx stream. At around 3 minutes he got ganked and killed. He was really surprised at this and said something along the lines of "wow that was a fast gankg, he must have ran straight here. However I watched Locos stream the other day where around 3 minutes he said something like "I need to be careful for gank now as juggler would be finished his path by now and looking for gank top". Just found it interesting a non-top seems to know jungle paths more than an actual top. it's cause wings is actually a really awful player who tries to give the semblance of a good player explaining in depth strategies so whenever he dies to something completely avoidable he acts all surprised and pretends its some deep strategy he must study at length later when really he just blows l0l
Wings is not "awful" what he is is the quintessential guy from 1400 ELO who calls "TOP" the second they get into champ select, except much much better. He picks Darius a lot, knows how trades among most of the common toplaners work, etc. He will go down for a dragon, but then tax all the lanes as well. His map awareness is not the best, and I think that is probably because he thinks top is an island and isn't on a team that yells at him for doing that.
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On November 03 2012 05:40 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:35 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On November 03 2012 05:18 Celial wrote:On November 03 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:
Positioning is not mechanics. Efficient kiting is. Almost as exciting as SK Terran. Almost. I spent like an entire minute trying to press my phone's screen wondering why an awesome VoD of like WeiXiao or Fantasy wasn't loading. You make me sad. On November 03 2012 05:05 kainzero wrote:On November 03 2012 04:59 TheYango wrote:
In the MOBA community, the term "mechanics" is sometimes corrupted somewhat to refer to familiarity with the mechanics of the game rather than just physical/muscle memory-based ability (which isn't relevant for a whole lot in the game to begin with). Positioning isn't really "game sense" in the sense that it requires that you have some certain idea of the gameflow and whatnot, but rather "game knowledge" in knowing the comparative spell ranges and engagement ability of the various champions in the game. maybe it's just me but i've hardly ever heard people from DotA use the term "mechanics." but i dunno, i think terms like "positioning" and "mechanics" are really just these vague terms that everyone uses and loosely understands, but they aren't really clearly defined and everyone has their own definition. it reminds me of people saying to work on your "fundamentals" in basketball. or fighting games. I'm curious. What kind of terminology would you guys like to see being used more and what kind of stuff used less? Looking for feedback and ideas on how to approach article writing in the future. I AM SO SORRY! I noticed that I clicked the wrong button and changed it to italics - apparently too late to save you. ='( Now I have to go watch VoDs.
Hahaha it's ok I forgive you <3
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On November 03 2012 05:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 03 2012 02:31 Numy wrote:At least it's just your twitch. Come 7ish PM I warp around in LoL, nothing else lags. So I can only LoL during the day Also yesterday I noticed something really interesting on WoDx stream. At around 3 minutes he got ganked and killed. He was really surprised at this and said something along the lines of "wow that was a fast gankg, he must have ran straight here. However I watched Locos stream the other day where around 3 minutes he said something like "I need to be careful for gank now as juggler would be finished his path by now and looking for gank top". Just found it interesting a non-top seems to know jungle paths more than an actual top. it's cause wings is actually a really awful player who tries to give the semblance of a good player explaining in depth strategies so whenever he dies to something completely avoidable he acts all surprised and pretends its some deep strategy he must study at length later when really he just blows l0l Wings is not "awful" what he is is the quintessential guy from 1400 ELO who calls "TOP" the second they get into champ select, except much much better. He picks Darius a lot, knows how trades among most of the common toplaners work, etc. He will go down for a dragon, but then tax all the lanes as well. His map awareness is not the best, and I think that is probably because he thinks top is an island and isn't on a team that yells at him for doing that.
In his defense, it's kind of hard to be map aware AND keep talking 24/7. You get distracted.
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On November 03 2012 05:44 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:40 Celial wrote:On November 03 2012 05:35 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On November 03 2012 05:18 Celial wrote:On November 03 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:
Positioning is not mechanics. Efficient kiting is. Almost as exciting as SK Terran. Almost. I spent like an entire minute trying to press my phone's screen wondering why an awesome VoD of like WeiXiao or Fantasy wasn't loading. You make me sad. On November 03 2012 05:05 kainzero wrote:On November 03 2012 04:59 TheYango wrote:
In the MOBA community, the term "mechanics" is sometimes corrupted somewhat to refer to familiarity with the mechanics of the game rather than just physical/muscle memory-based ability (which isn't relevant for a whole lot in the game to begin with). Positioning isn't really "game sense" in the sense that it requires that you have some certain idea of the gameflow and whatnot, but rather "game knowledge" in knowing the comparative spell ranges and engagement ability of the various champions in the game. maybe it's just me but i've hardly ever heard people from DotA use the term "mechanics." but i dunno, i think terms like "positioning" and "mechanics" are really just these vague terms that everyone uses and loosely understands, but they aren't really clearly defined and everyone has their own definition. it reminds me of people saying to work on your "fundamentals" in basketball. or fighting games. I'm curious. What kind of terminology would you guys like to see being used more and what kind of stuff used less? Looking for feedback and ideas on how to approach article writing in the future. I AM SO SORRY! I noticed that I clicked the wrong button and changed it to italics - apparently too late to save you. ='( Now I have to go watch VoDs. Hahaha it's ok I forgive you <3
Check your PMs, that should make you happy! Although I have "Beyond The Game" now stuck in my head.
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How come all supports are female or little kids (Nunu) or extra... flamboyant (Taric)
Kinda funny that the most masculine support in the game is Blitzcrank.
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On November 03 2012 05:55 Ketara wrote:How come all supports are female or little kids (Nunu) or extra... flamboyant (Taric) Kinda funny that the most masculine support in the game is Blitzcrank.
Alistar?
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Good point, I tend to forget Alistar.
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On November 03 2012 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Holy crap, I remember when WoDx only use to only have like 4k viewers O.o, right now he has 18.6k viewers. Only took him like a half month of regular amount of streaming. I guess people really like his commentary.
He is quite informative, and for people looking to learn, its one of the better streams. Also most other popular streamers, especially the na ones have not been on for the past few days because of mlg dallas, so theres kind of been a shift for a while i guess. Im sure when oddone comes back wodx numbers back to normal :/
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They tried to make a female tank and then it ended up being a support because apparently riot didn't play all the old tanks to realize they were burst damage beasts with some CC or tank steriods and not CC bots.
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EPT
