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On May 25 2012 04:11 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:18 OutlaW- wrote:
I don't like it. Spell vamp quints are quite terrible on him, as his spellvamp comes from his ulti's damage, it doesn't add him lifesteal. You also don't really want to build WotA on him, it's a big waste compared to other items. I guess yellows are up to preference, but I prefer AP/lvl as I'm going to be taking MR blues for the survavibility. Quints I go AP but MS work nicely, too.
All 9/21/0 and 21/0/9 and 21/9/0 are viable, imo.
I like to build him Cata/Chalice>Cata/chalice>RoA>Athene after the patch. Rylais, Abyssal or Zhonya after. the idea is swain as a top character lacks early sustain and the extra 6% spellvamp gives him +100 hp on every trade, which is pretty significant in top lane where trades happen fairly frequently.
6% spellvamp is getting you +100 hp on every trade? damn yo, I didn't realize Swain was doing 1667 damage to me in trades. brb abusing swain to get 4K elo.
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On May 25 2012 04:02 danana wrote:
Why do people get RoA so religiously on Swain? I agree that it's good on him, but I feel like he gets so much healing from his ult that he should favor resists over HP - and he has plenty of good sources of resists too, like Zhonyas, Abyssal, Chalice/Athenes, etc.
a. Gives two things Swain likes to have; a workable mana pool and a health buffer. You are correct that stacking health has an anti-synergy with his Ult's effective health, but he does need a decent buffer to survive the intital spam/focus from the other team and give his ultimate time to do work. Manawise, Blue Buff is actually NOT that helpful during full blown teamfights, only from recovery and protracted standoffs. Swain needs a decent mana pool to stick around in a teamfight; otherwise, you have to manage your bird form and safely disengage, which is awkward when you should be in the middle of a teamfight.
b. Builds from Catalyst, which is a GREAT item for his laning phase.
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On May 25 2012 04:15 Requizen wrote:
Darius seems to be one of those champs that attracts the douchiest players, or is it just me? Every Darius player reminds me of most Trynd players, "I got fed and am teh best player EVAR!"
Not QQ, just a social observation.
They're the same ones that play lux support. A branch of players who think of the game as about killing other champions rather than killing the nexus.
Easily identified by the:
"FIRST BLOOD! an ally has been slain"
"lol noob has to get jungler to camp lane"
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On May 25 2012 04:11 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 04:02 danana wrote:
Why do people get RoA so religiously on Swain? I agree that it's good on him, but I feel like he gets so much healing from his ult that he should favor resists over HP - and he has plenty of good sources of resists too, like Zhonyas, Abyssal, Chalice/Athenes, etc. Zhonyas and abyssal dont give mana, which is good on a champ like swain.
well sure, but how does the mana pool of RoA compare to the regen of Chalice/Grail? chalice certainly feels like it has better synergy with swain's kit, but idk how their efficiency compares.
edit: nvm, ManyCookies pretty much answered this. thanks
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On May 25 2012 04:15 Requizen wrote:
Darius seems to be one of those champs that attracts the douchiest players, or is it just me? Every Darius player reminds me of most Trynd players, "I got fed and am teh best player EVAR!"
Not QQ, just a social observation.
I had a Darius player today whose user name was N4zi Warwick KKK.
Needles to say he was a douche and I asked him how come he isn't banned with that name.He said he got banned once but they didn't change the name.I don't even know.
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On May 25 2012 04:02 danana wrote:
Why do people get RoA so religiously on Swain? I agree that it's good on him, but I feel like he gets so much healing from his ult that he should favor resists over HP - and he has plenty of good sources of resists too, like Zhonyas, Abyssal, Chalice/Athenes, etc.
Swain's role isn't that of a true AP carry. He doesn't do a lot of burst damage, but gains tankiness through his ult in combination with the items you build on him.
Walk into their team with your ult on and 2000-2500 health, and you immediately go for the threat and kill them with your whole kit.
Everything that Rod gives is just too good on Swain. More mana for longer ult, more health, and some AP over time. He doesn't even need a lot of AP to do a shit ton of damage either imo.
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On May 25 2012 03:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Are there Vods from yesterdays tsm vs dignitas? i read that Reginal actually played really good and oddone improved a lot lately.
Would appreciate if someone could link them to me.
I would like these as well, also who won?
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The stupid players who play Darius will also act as douchebags too.
My team is worthless I have 20 kills out of my team's 20! Yes your poor poor teammates...
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On May 25 2012 04:34 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Are there Vods from yesterdays tsm vs dignitas? i read that Reginal actually played really good and oddone improved a lot lately.
Would appreciate if someone could link them to me. I would like these as well, also who won?
TSM by a pretty large margin.
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On May 25 2012 04:21 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 04:11 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 25 2012 03:18 OutlaW- wrote:
I don't like it. Spell vamp quints are quite terrible on him, as his spellvamp comes from his ulti's damage, it doesn't add him lifesteal. You also don't really want to build WotA on him, it's a big waste compared to other items. I guess yellows are up to preference, but I prefer AP/lvl as I'm going to be taking MR blues for the survavibility. Quints I go AP but MS work nicely, too.
All 9/21/0 and 21/0/9 and 21/9/0 are viable, imo.
I like to build him Cata/Chalice>Cata/chalice>RoA>Athene after the patch. Rylais, Abyssal or Zhonya after. the idea is swain as a top character lacks early sustain and the extra 6% spellvamp gives him +100 hp on every trade, which is pretty significant in top lane where trades happen fairly frequently. 6% spellvamp is getting you +100 hp on every trade? damn yo, I didn't realize Swain was doing 1667 damage to me in trades. brb abusing swain to get 4K elo.
sorry i noticed the +100 on trades with hextech when i was trying it out and the 6% spellvamp, it actually gives around 40 hp per trade, from the quints alone, and gives an extra hp from each bird each second with his ult, triples vs champs. I find it gives him an extra two minutes in lane, which the extra 20 cs you should be getting in that two minutes makes up any difference in "cost effectiveness" other quints can give you. But maybe it's just my style that makes me want to play that way.
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On May 25 2012 04:11 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:18 OutlaW- wrote:
I don't like it. Spell vamp quints are quite terrible on him, as his spellvamp comes from his ulti's damage, it doesn't add him lifesteal. You also don't really want to build WotA on him, it's a big waste compared to other items. I guess yellows are up to preference, but I prefer AP/lvl as I'm going to be taking MR blues for the survavibility. Quints I go AP but MS work nicely, too.
All 9/21/0 and 21/0/9 and 21/9/0 are viable, imo.
I like to build him Cata/Chalice>Cata/chalice>RoA>Athene after the patch. Rylais, Abyssal or Zhonya after. the idea is swain as a top character lacks early sustain and the extra 6% spellvamp gives him +100 hp on every trade, which is pretty significant in top lane where trades happen fairly frequently.
swain only lacks sustain until 6, at which point he becomes a sustain monster (esp since i used to nearly always get chalice top lane). Before 6, his skillset is such that any melee champs risk serious kiting issues such that, more often than not, swain outtrades them by virtue of just not getting hit very often. Plus, a lot of top lane champs are very binary in terms of engagement, either being completely not engaging or completely committing, and swain's q + w make commitments incredibly dangerous if you throw a potential jungle gank in the mix, so the vast majority of melee top laners really cannot afford to try to engage on swain unless they are like 99% sure enemy jungler isn't nearby.
also, in general, swain can very easily toss in e + auto completely for free in a ton of top lane matchups.
tl:dr, i don't see how swain has problems 'trading' in top lane, except in very specific matchups. Also, in terms of just math, I was under the impression that, defensively, getting armor or mres quints is going to help you out a lot more in trades than spellvamp quints, but don't quote me on that.
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On May 25 2012 04:34 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 03:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Are there Vods from yesterdays tsm vs dignitas? i read that Reginal actually played really good and oddone improved a lot lately.
Would appreciate if someone could link them to me. I would like these as well, also who won?
Here you go: http://www.twitch.tv/national_esl1/b/319167896
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Something noone has mentioned re: spellvamp on swain. All his spells are AoE or DoT. So the 6% spell vamp only gives him 2% spell vamp. Meaning it's even worse than people are saying it is.
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DoT DOES apply full Spell Vamp. You're thinking of Ryalis. All of Swain's abilities apply full vamp except his W.
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On May 25 2012 05:27 ManyCookies wrote:
DoT DOES apply full Spell Vamp. You're thinking of Ryalis. All of Swain's abilities apply full vamp except his W.
Hmm. You're right. I thought vamp and rylai's both diminished for both AoE and DoT. Although Swain's ult does count as AoE so only his Q and E get full vamp.
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Wait so is SaintVicious actually playing Mid for curse? he seems to be talking about serious mid training on his stream at the moment.
EDIT: Oh, apparently not, nevermind.
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Nope, his Ult gives full Vamp as well. Though wierdly does not give full Rylai's effect.
EDIT: I think... Wiki says no. Let me test quickly.
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On May 25 2012 05:18 Torchise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 04:34 Slaughter wrote:On May 25 2012 03:14 AsnSensation wrote:
Are there Vods from yesterdays tsm vs dignitas? i read that Reginal actually played really good and oddone improved a lot lately.
Would appreciate if someone could link them to me. I would like these as well, also who won? Here you go: http://www.twitch.tv/national_esl1/b/319167896
Thanks a lot!
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I used to get Wota second on Swain a lot, but that was before all the recent nerfs to it. Don't see too much reason to build it now apart from maybe going double WotA, but then you might as well pick something not Swain. RoA first still must imo, catalyst too good, stats on RoA too good, Swain needs the mana pool and some hp.
Deathcap is really good if you can get away with it (which you often cannot unfortunately). Swain scales really well with AP though. I like QSS (you will get ignited) and DFG (+20% damage on a target with e on it, yes please) on him, but you only have so many item slots 
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after trying several builds involving athene's holy greil on kog/anivia/swain/ori i'm heavily under the impression right now that athene's sucks if you don't invest in some sort of flat mana source such as tear or RoA because most champs don't have high enough mana pools to benefit from the extra regen that athene's provides
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EPT
