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MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
May 22 2012 16:59 GMT
#4421
From what I heard they are mainly trying to balance Dairius and fixing some graphical side of things on SR before releasing the patch
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Soloside
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1238 Posts
May 22 2012 16:59 GMT
#4422
On May 23 2012 01:29 dnastyx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 01:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 22 2012 18:25 cascades wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:49 De4ngus wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:28 MooMooMugi wrote:
You guys make Soniv's TF sound like a travesty, it can be that bad.....right?

theres a reason i always have to ban tf in tl b games and its not because we're afraid of the enemy team having tf.


two reasons. two_down.

My jungle TF has a better track record than Soniv's mid AP version.


not hard when you play as a 1500 elo jungler


SHOTS FIRED

On that note, has anyone on TL tried out AP Naut? I accidentally randomed him and pretty much stomped mid with his lvl 6 burst...It was easier to execute than Ahri's level 6 to be honest.
LoL: Taylor Swift | King Kayle
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
May 22 2012 17:00 GMT
#4423
Time to hopefully watch SK gaming get destroyed by the high elo team of awesomeness
Moderator
0123456789
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3216 Posts
May 22 2012 17:40 GMT
#4424
On May 23 2012 01:59 Soloside wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 01:29 dnastyx wrote:
On May 23 2012 01:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 22 2012 18:25 cascades wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:49 De4ngus wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:28 MooMooMugi wrote:
You guys make Soniv's TF sound like a travesty, it can be that bad.....right?

theres a reason i always have to ban tf in tl b games and its not because we're afraid of the enemy team having tf.


two reasons. two_down.

My jungle TF has a better track record than Soniv's mid AP version.


not hard when you play as a 1500 elo jungler


SHOTS FIRED

On that note, has anyone on TL tried out AP Naut? I accidentally randomed him and pretty much stomped mid with his lvl 6 burst...It was easier to execute than Ahri's level 6 to be honest.


U really want to be chu9 dont ya.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
May 22 2012 17:44 GMT
#4425
On May 23 2012 01:19 OreoBoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 16:41 emucxg wrote:
hotshotgg's weakness:

- wrong item build like above mentioned: buys doran shields, and he hates gp5 items for some reason

- he is mechanically bad... like, i was surprised lol, he misses every skill shots, every time..

- never gank, have to farm trolol...especially he never ganks bot lane

- never write down the jungle timers: "school is useless, and i am bad at math"


- Saint went for a week buying dorans shields on shyv and mundo, it's not horrible but not optimal.
- He hates GP5 because everyone was like "Hotshot why you build GP5, they terrible rofl"
- Saint is also terrible mechaniclly, doesn't like to gank and doesn't take timers and people consider him to be top jungler

IMO Hotshots problems are:
- He still has a terrible champion pool so he won't be able to adapt
- He's coming into the jungler role with top lane bias, meaning he will camp top all the time because that's what happened to him.


Experimenting with different item builds (e.g. Doran's) isn't a terrible idea when you're an experienced jungler. It's a good way to break down assumptions and keep you on top of potential developments and ideas.

Experimenting is horrible when you're new to something.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
May 22 2012 17:46 GMT
#4426
I really h ope Nautis dredgeline gets a nerf.. so much cc, and that thing is far too easy to hit :O
Moderator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
May 22 2012 17:48 GMT
#4427
Watching saint last hit in lane is the more horrendous thing ever. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion, you just cna't look away at the horror.

Saint takes ganks he knows he get get, HSGG just doesn't gank. Which is fine, because voyboy is manly on toplane.
liftlift > tsm
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
May 22 2012 17:49 GMT
#4428
On May 23 2012 01:19 OreoBoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 16:41 emucxg wrote:
hotshotgg's weakness:

- wrong item build like above mentioned: buys doran shields, and he hates gp5 items for some reason

- he is mechanically bad... like, i was surprised lol, he misses every skill shots, every time..

- never gank, have to farm trolol...especially he never ganks bot lane

- never write down the jungle timers: "school is useless, and i am bad at math"


- Saint went for a week buying dorans shields on shyv and mundo, it's not horrible but not optimal.
- He hates GP5 because everyone was like "Hotshot why you build GP5, they terrible rofl"
- Saint is also terrible mechaniclly, doesn't like to gank and doesn't take timers and people consider him to be top jungler

IMO Hotshots problems are:
- He still has a terrible champion pool so he won't be able to adapt
- He's coming into the jungler role with top lane bias, meaning he will camp top all the time because that's what happened to him.


That's not it at all but okay.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 18:28:56
May 22 2012 18:28 GMT
#4429
On May 23 2012 02:48 wei2coolman wrote:
Saint takes ganks he knows he get get, HSGG just doesn't gank. Which is fine, because voyboy is manly on toplane.

HSGG's problem is that he ganks TOO MUCH and never farms. Now maybe it was just that one game you saw where he decided to farm but from the past few days, he's like 95% gank/camp lanes and fails because he doesn't farm.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
May 22 2012 18:37 GMT
#4430
On May 22 2012 23:45 Schwopzi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 23:06 phyvo wrote:
They just nerfed Darius on the PBE. He was completely ridiculous, both Dariuses getting fed both games. But I don't like Riot's direction with Darius' kit.

I don't know how they can possibly plan to balance Darius when he's a melee champ with a terrible initiate, no escape, and a snowball true damage ulti. A super kitable melee champ with no initiate/escape is already pretty all in from a design standpoint. Why add in a refreshing-on-kill ulti? Did they think that balancing the current roster was too easy for them?


I was just sad I couldn't get his W to 0 second cd with max cdr/5 stack. What nerfs are on the pbe? I just thought the ad scaling on ult was kinda redonculous


They increased ult CD to 100/90/80 but more importantly reduced the range on his Q from 425 to 270. For perspective, his W range is 300. I'm not really concerned about the nerfs themselves but more his kit as a whole.

On May 23 2012 00:05 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 23:06 phyvo wrote:
They just nerfed Darius on the PBE. He was completely ridiculous, both Dariuses getting fed both games. But I don't like Riot's direction with Darius' kit.

I don't know how they can possibly plan to balance Darius when he's a melee champ with a terrible initiate, no escape, and a snowball true damage ulti. A super kitable melee champ with no initiate/escape is already pretty all in from a design standpoint. Why add in a refreshing-on-kill ulti? Did they think that balancing the current roster was too easy for them?


I don't mind the idea of champions like Darius who might only be viable in the context of a team built around them. The problem is Riot routinely gives these sorts of champions kits which snowball hard (in either direction).

On-kill refreshes are definitely strong, but I don't think necessarily wrong. The insanity is putting that mechanic on a scaling true damage nuke.


Bro, I don't think that your entire team can build around a melee who lacks major consistency tools without giving up something else. Maybe a team could be built around him but frankly when I've seen teams built around one champ it's been Kog Maw and Kog is a pretty consistent late game ranged AD (who just lacks a real escape), not the most kiteable melee champion in the game.

Besides, I'm not complaining about the ulti refresh becasue I think ulti refresh is always wrong. I just think it's terrible on someone who already lacks all the standard reliability tools. Even without his ultimate Darius is *more* snowbally by nature of being a melee with zero range and a bad gap closer.

When you look at snowballiness a scaling true damage nuke is still linear but a refreshing ultimate adds a whole other layer of scaling since your scaling and your team's scaling = more ultimates.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
May 22 2012 19:00 GMT
#4431
On May 23 2012 01:19 OreoBoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 16:41 emucxg wrote:
hotshotgg's weakness:

- wrong item build like above mentioned: buys doran shields, and he hates gp5 items for some reason

- he is mechanically bad... like, i was surprised lol, he misses every skill shots, every time..

- never gank, have to farm trolol...especially he never ganks bot lane

- never write down the jungle timers: "school is useless, and i am bad at math"


- Saint went for a week buying dorans shields on shyv and mundo, it's not horrible but not optimal.
- He hates GP5 because everyone was like "Hotshot why you build GP5, they terrible rofl"
- Saint is also terrible mechaniclly, doesn't like to gank and doesn't take timers and people consider him to be top jungler

IMO Hotshots problems are:
- He still has a terrible champion pool so he won't be able to adapt
- He's coming into the jungler role with top lane bias, meaning he will camp top all the time because that's what happened to him.


I do not like Hotshot. As a fan of CLG I think they pretty much have zero chance of even qualifying for season 2 finals in September. If they somehow manage to qualify there is almost no way they can win it.

With that said, I think that Hotshot's logic is that he's going to influence the game early and have his lanes snowball from there. Which would explain why he forgoes GP5 and builds Dshields. However, as someone who isn't even a pro at this game I think that's a horrible way to play jungler because if you don't win the lanes for your team then the game is basically going to turn into a 4v5 since you'll have zero gold.

I don't think his mechanics are even necessary in this conversation. As you said, saint's mechanics are awful. But you don't need fucking mechanics to jungle. You need game sense, map awareness, and really good decision making. I don't think Hotshot has any of that.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
May 22 2012 19:11 GMT
#4432
On May 23 2012 01:59 Soloside wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 01:29 dnastyx wrote:
On May 23 2012 01:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 22 2012 18:25 cascades wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:49 De4ngus wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:28 MooMooMugi wrote:
You guys make Soniv's TF sound like a travesty, it can be that bad.....right?

theres a reason i always have to ban tf in tl b games and its not because we're afraid of the enemy team having tf.


two reasons. two_down.

My jungle TF has a better track record than Soniv's mid AP version.


not hard when you play as a 1500 elo jungler


SHOTS FIRED

On that note, has anyone on TL tried out AP Naut? I accidentally randomed him and pretty much stomped mid with his lvl 6 burst...It was easier to execute than Ahri's level 6 to be honest.


i am thoroughly entranced by cata -> phage -> roa -> triforce builds.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 19:23:11
May 22 2012 19:22 GMT
#4433
Hotshot's decision making is that somehow if you can get chased by 3 enemy team members and die every 30 seconds, you somehow won the game because you "distracted them."
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
May 22 2012 19:26 GMT
#4434
On May 23 2012 03:37 phyvo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 23:45 Schwopzi wrote:
On May 22 2012 23:06 phyvo wrote:
They just nerfed Darius on the PBE. He was completely ridiculous, both Dariuses getting fed both games. But I don't like Riot's direction with Darius' kit.

I don't know how they can possibly plan to balance Darius when he's a melee champ with a terrible initiate, no escape, and a snowball true damage ulti. A super kitable melee champ with no initiate/escape is already pretty all in from a design standpoint. Why add in a refreshing-on-kill ulti? Did they think that balancing the current roster was too easy for them?


I was just sad I couldn't get his W to 0 second cd with max cdr/5 stack. What nerfs are on the pbe? I just thought the ad scaling on ult was kinda redonculous


They increased ult CD to 100/90/80 but more importantly reduced the range on his Q from 425 to 270. For perspective, his W range is 300. I'm not really concerned about the nerfs themselves but more his kit as a whole.

Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 00:05 Seuss wrote:
On May 22 2012 23:06 phyvo wrote:
They just nerfed Darius on the PBE. He was completely ridiculous, both Dariuses getting fed both games. But I don't like Riot's direction with Darius' kit.

I don't know how they can possibly plan to balance Darius when he's a melee champ with a terrible initiate, no escape, and a snowball true damage ulti. A super kitable melee champ with no initiate/escape is already pretty all in from a design standpoint. Why add in a refreshing-on-kill ulti? Did they think that balancing the current roster was too easy for them?


I don't mind the idea of champions like Darius who might only be viable in the context of a team built around them. The problem is Riot routinely gives these sorts of champions kits which snowball hard (in either direction).

On-kill refreshes are definitely strong, but I don't think necessarily wrong. The insanity is putting that mechanic on a scaling true damage nuke.


Bro, I don't think that your entire team can build around a melee who lacks major consistency tools without giving up something else. Maybe a team could be built around him but frankly when I've seen teams built around one champ it's been Kog Maw and Kog is a pretty consistent late game ranged AD (who just lacks a real escape), not the most kiteable melee champion in the game.

Besides, I'm not complaining about the ulti refresh becasue I think ulti refresh is always wrong. I just think it's terrible on someone who already lacks all the standard reliability tools. Even without his ultimate Darius is *more* snowbally by nature of being a melee with zero range and a bad gap closer.

When you look at snowballiness a scaling true damage nuke is still linear but a refreshing ultimate adds a whole other layer of scaling since your scaling and your team's scaling = more ultimates.


There are many different ways of building a team composition around a champion. While a Kog'maw style "Protect the Darius" composition might or might not give up too much for too little, that's only one approach. The problem is that most champions are almost entirely self-sufficient by design, so thinking about ways of incorporating those that aren't is often a waste of time. Why bother when Riot will just buff/remake them later (or, in Xin/Eve's case, relegate them to the dustbin)?

Fair point on the ultimate.

On May 23 2012 04:00 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 01:19 OreoBoi wrote:
On May 22 2012 16:41 emucxg wrote:
hotshotgg's weakness:

- wrong item build like above mentioned: buys doran shields, and he hates gp5 items for some reason

- he is mechanically bad... like, i was surprised lol, he misses every skill shots, every time..

- never gank, have to farm trolol...especially he never ganks bot lane

- never write down the jungle timers: "school is useless, and i am bad at math"


- Saint went for a week buying dorans shields on shyv and mundo, it's not horrible but not optimal.
- He hates GP5 because everyone was like "Hotshot why you build GP5, they terrible rofl"
- Saint is also terrible mechaniclly, doesn't like to gank and doesn't take timers and people consider him to be top jungler

IMO Hotshots problems are:
- He still has a terrible champion pool so he won't be able to adapt
- He's coming into the jungler role with top lane bias, meaning he will camp top all the time because that's what happened to him.


I do not like Hotshot. As a fan of CLG I think they pretty much have zero chance of even qualifying for season 2 finals in September. If they somehow manage to qualify there is almost no way they can win it.

With that said, I think that Hotshot's logic is that he's going to influence the game early and have his lanes snowball from there. Which would explain why he forgoes GP5 and builds Dshields. However, as someone who isn't even a pro at this game I think that's a horrible way to play jungler because if you don't win the lanes for your team then the game is basically going to turn into a 4v5 since you'll have zero gold.

I don't think his mechanics are even necessary in this conversation. As you said, saint's mechanics are awful. But you don't need fucking mechanics to jungle. You need game sense, map awareness, and really good decision making. I don't think Hotshot has any of that.


Your attempt to explain Hotshot's logic breaks down when you remember he's doing this on champions like Shyvana and Udyr. If you want to influence the early game like crazy through winning lanes you go Nautilus, Alistar, Lee Sin, or another jungler with strong ganks. You don't pick a farmy jungler if you want to gank constantly.

"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
May 22 2012 19:26 GMT
#4435
On May 23 2012 00:05 Seuss wrote:
The insanity is putting that mechanic on a scaling true damage nuke.


i agree 100%
it's things like this (and vayne, %-health-based TRUE DAMAGE with no mana cost LOL) and some of the other absurdly OP skills in the game (riven shield, rumble entire kit, kennen entire kit) that make me wonder like who pushed for that final touch

i bet their discussions were like this:

reasonable designer: "... okay guys i think that wraps it up. vayne's autos will apply magic damage every couple of hits. it'll make her very strong when built with AS intead of pure AD like all the other ranged carries. you like?"
the conference room: "yeah that sounds good man, she's slightly different because of her mobility and this adds a nice touch! let's go for dri-"
deranged maniac: "WAIT. WAIT. HOLD ON. instead of just applying magic damage, let's do magic damage that scales with the enemy health! this way you can't stack health against her, only MR!"
reasonable designer: "ehhhh i don't know, i think that's a bit much. kogmaw already has a similar concept but he's balanced by lack of mobility, on vayne i don't think that'll wo-"
deranged maniac: "you're right, that won't do at all. if enemies can build MR against her, she'll still be stoppable... it'll be TRUE DAMAGE. %-HEALTH-BASED TRUE DAMAGE" *draws a gun, locks the door* "...write this down. WRITE IT DOWN"


then a year and change later:

reasonable designer: "alright guys we're building another melee champ, we need to give him something to stick to his enemies. i've proposed a short hook and a weak slow. this should let him single out ranged carries to do his job without being too silly. any objections?"
satan, disguised as a designer: "HOW ABOUT A GAP CLOSER"
reasonable designer: "hmmm i guess that wouldn't be terrible. okay we'll make his ult a gap closer. he's starting to look pretty strong at this point, let's not go overbo-"
satan, disguised as a designer: "HOW ABOUT IT REFRESHES ON KILL"
reasonable designer: "uhhh... well i mean okay that should only come into play in lower level games, i guess that's not entirely dumb. he's definitely a strong champ now though. maybe we should take a look at adding some of these ideas to karma or katar-"
satan, disguised as a designer: "IT WILL DO TRUE DAMAGE"
reasonable designer: "wow! okay! i think that's enough man! this skill is starting to get a bit silly" *titters nervously*
satan, disguised as a designer: "ONE LAST THING" *reveals himself to be the devil*
reasonable designer: "please no! please! we already made that mistake with riveennnnnn!!!"
satan: "THE TRUE DAMAGE WILL SCALE OFF AD" *laughs maniacally*
the conference room: "jesus have mercy"
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
May 22 2012 19:34 GMT
#4436
On May 23 2012 01:59 Soloside wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2012 01:29 dnastyx wrote:
On May 23 2012 01:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 22 2012 18:25 cascades wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:49 De4ngus wrote:
On May 22 2012 17:28 MooMooMugi wrote:
You guys make Soniv's TF sound like a travesty, it can be that bad.....right?

theres a reason i always have to ban tf in tl b games and its not because we're afraid of the enemy team having tf.


two reasons. two_down.

My jungle TF has a better track record than Soniv's mid AP version.


not hard when you play as a 1500 elo jungler


SHOTS FIRED

On that note, has anyone on TL tried out AP Naut? I accidentally randomed him and pretty much stomped mid with his lvl 6 burst...It was easier to execute than Ahri's level 6 to be honest.


Friend of mine loved playing AP Nautilus mid. I've also had the pleasure of getting 100-0'd by one once as well.

I stomped one when I went Rumble mid one day though... Forget what the circumstances were tbh.

btw, how is Darius? Is he as broken as the LoL forums made him out to be?
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
May 22 2012 19:57 GMT
#4437
AP Nautilus is mean. You have to play it like a lot like Singed. You're really weak early, but just shrug off the harass and get cs, then you hit 5 you can burst harass, and then you hit six and you just kill the other guy.
Misder
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1557 Posts
May 22 2012 20:19 GMT
#4438
Anybody watch SK vs Fnatic in the Dreamhack Qualifiers just now?
+ Show Spoiler +
xPeke making big plays with backdoor TF and Lamia playing phenomenally with Ashe. Haven't seen a game that exciting in a while...
Whaaaa?
Haasts
Profile Joined October 2011
New Zealand4445 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-22 20:25:09
May 22 2012 20:21 GMT
#4439
On May 23 2012 05:19 Misder wrote:
Anybody watch SK vs Fnatic in the Dreamhack Qualifiers just now?
+ Show Spoiler +
xPeke making big plays with backdoor TF and Lamia playing phenomenally with Ashe. Haven't seen a game that exciting in a while...


Yeah, just came to here to post about that.

+ Show Spoiler +
Amazing, amazing plays by xPeke's TF - ridiculous jukes with Zhonyas, Flash & Destiny, huge backdoor plays, great fight cleanup, yeah. Shame Shushei's Gragas is a little rusty, oy. And yeah, Lami's Ashe wasn't flashy, but pretty much perfect AD play. Had to laugh at SK's Alistar getting murdered by baron after getting hit by DFG/Explosive Cask burst through the wall when he came to clear a ward, ulting to escape/survive, but Trample aggroing baron just as he got stunned by Enchanted Crystal Arrow ... poor cow.
PaniaoftheReef in Path of Exile TotA SSF SC // Lovelin fanclub // GreenTea #1
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
May 22 2012 20:33 GMT
#4440
Hey guys I have been playing a bunch of top riven and loving him and doing very well with him. (4:1 kda)

However, I realize I really like solo top and need to learn some other champions. Who are some other champions that I should learn solo top that have good ability to harass and kill in lane, and scale well into the late game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
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